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Old 25th October 2020, 12:21   #8296
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Default Re: The Home Appliance thread

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Originally Posted by diyguy View Post
Lesson learnt and need to see how to protect better for the next time this happens.
Start with a SPD on the mains panel. Add a big - rated at 30 A at least MOV at each phase to the real ground after a MCB rated at 25 A or lesser depending upon your needs. This would protect against all kinds of surges, transients and an open neutral.
An open neutral leaves the domestic circuits in series in the 2 phases - thus the outcome depends on the load in each circuit. The results are unpredictable which explains why some equipment have been left unscathed while others suffered failures.
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Old 25th October 2020, 12:59   #8297
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Start with a SPD on the mains panel. Add a big - rated at 30 A
Thanks Prowler, should have done this before. https://www.havells.com/en/consumer/...on-device.html
I am not able to understand the difference between the type 1+2 and type 2 SPDs on the Havells site. I assume both will suffice for the full house protection as a start. I need not purchase additional stabilizers if i install these i assume.
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Old 25th October 2020, 14:43   #8298
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Default Re: The Home Appliance thread

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Any suggestions on Split A/C for home. 5 star rating preferred. Reliability and good after sales is a must.
Go for Mitshubishi Electric if budget is not a constraint. Opt for inverter models if running will be more than 4-5 hours daily.

In mid-range LG inverters ACs are good (do take extended warranty). If you are looking for Value for Money option then Sanyo inverter is a good option.
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Old 25th October 2020, 19:24   #8299
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Default Re: The Home Appliance thread

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I am not able to understand the difference between the type 1+2 and type 2 SPDs on the Havells site.
I can't review it now as listening to a concert, but I think this guy covers the different types of surge protector and where they should be used in these videos:

I also think I found him via a post about mcbs on this site.

I'm glad you didn't suffer too much .

Last edited by Thad E Ginathom : 25th October 2020 at 19:26.
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Old 25th October 2020, 19:38   #8300
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Default Re: The Home Appliance thread

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Last night we had the EB cable burn underground outside our house resulting in neutral short and high voltage inside our home.
Good to know that your losses are minimal.

What cable is this exactly? It is the 4 core shielded and armored cable that goes from your meter box to the electric pole? I do not know about Chennai however, in BLR, the electricity supply is from the poles with lines over the poles
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Old 25th October 2020, 21:23   #8301
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Thanks Thad, will check this out.
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lWhat cable is this exactly? It is the 4 core shielded and armored cable that goes from your meter box to the electric pole?
Yes this is the 4 core power supply from the corner distribution box to the house. The issue is our next door neighbors 2 core cable joins into ours instead of their own direct cable from the junction box. These are all underground and the heavy rains of the past few days may have caused the short circuit and the joints shorted and smoke was coming from under ground. Neutral was shorted with phase leading to 440v inside our house. The next door has two families both running off one phase only and having atleast 1ac each apart from other load items. There is a history of cable faults in our line and am guessing now it is due to their overloading of one phase?
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Old 26th October 2020, 10:48   #8302
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Default Re: The Home Appliance thread

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I am not able to understand the difference between the type 1+2 and type 2 SPDs on the Havells site. I assume both will suffice for the full house protection as a start. I need not purchase additional stabilizers if i install these i assume.
These SPDs protect against lightening, transient surges etc at the entry point - your mains input. Buy type 2 which is the most popular SPD.
They don't change the supply voltage in any way. SPD and MOV act as a crowbar to induce a short when the supply line exceeds a threshold value - usually at 280V. MOV can be bought for 260V onwards. So it is mandatory that the SPD/MOV come after a fuse/MCB.
Electric motors (you find inside AC,fridge, washing machine) have a relatively short range of operating voltage - 180-240 V. If you try to operate outside this limit, they will draw high current which will lead to failure.
Your stabilizers use a relay to switch voltage tapping point in an auto transformer. What this does is basically if the voltage is low, it switches to boost and if the supply voltage is high, it bucks. The range is typically about 30 V in either case. Usually they have a delay so that the output will not be available till a preset delay.
This is what may protect your equipment from failure if the supply is not within the usable range.

You can leave out the stabilizer in most cases if your house is protected by SPD at the entry point and MOV at every supply point. MOV are cheap about Rs.50-90 and can be easily fitted to the inside of every socket feeding your sensitive equipment.

Lastly they won't do anything about low supply Voltage.
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Old 27th October 2020, 12:17   #8303
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Originally Posted by Prowler View Post
These SPDs protect against lightening, transient surges etc at the entry point - your mains input. Buy type 2 which is the most popular SPD.
They don't change the supply voltage in any way. SPD and MOV act as a crowbar to induce a short when the supply line exceeds a threshold value - usually at 280V. MOV can be bought for 260V onwards. So it is mandatory that the SPD/MOV come after a fuse/MCB.
Thank you Prowler. From the reading i did i plan to install a Type 1+2 in my outside DB. The issue is i dont have space at the incoming box but have an adjacent box where i installed an isolator and three 32A MCBs. I will need to add an earth bar there and treat the mcbs as fuses and add a SPD after the MCBs. Does this make sense. Refer the pic below. The mcb and isolator are upside down due to way the wires were aligned. I made the large metal fuse box a dummy and replaced it with the 4 pole isolator. I did not connect the neutral to the isolator or an MCB though. Maybe thats a mistake?
The second pic shows the main EB lines with earth and neutral bars and the damaged EB meter with display damaged.
I am now learning our Samsung 300lit fridge is not cooling and most likely the compress is bust. Also found more stuff that has died like a xiaomi gateway device that controlled home automation in my bedroom with scenes for turning on lights when motion is detected and ability to turn on and off our TV, fire stick, audio alarms when main and back door opens or shuts etc
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Old 27th October 2020, 15:59   #8304
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Default Re: The Home Appliance thread

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Originally Posted by diyguy View Post
... These are all underground and the heavy rains of the past few days may have caused the short circuit and the joints shorted and smoke was coming from under ground. Neutral was shorted with phase leading to 440v inside our house.
if neutral shorts with phase , you would not have 440V but a dead short. What would have happened ( i am guessing here ) is a loss of neutral due to wire breakage resulting in a 440V. In such cases apart from the useful suggestions given by @prowler, you may want to check a neutral failure circuit breaker. A simple google search would provide you some results.

Btw : I see that the EB fellows are once again just using normal insulation tape to tie the wires back. I would suggest you ask then to do a proper job of taking a taping off a Junction box , if its available.
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Old 28th October 2020, 11:14   #8305
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Default Re: The Home Appliance thread

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I did not connect the neutral to the isolator or an MCB though. Maybe thats a mistake?
The second pic shows the main EB lines with earth and neutral bars and the damaged EB meter with display damaged.
Never ever connect the neutral to a fuse/MCB. Only the phases need fuses/MCB.
I see that you have removed the cotter pin and the handle in the mains switch handle to open the box in the on position. Don't forget to put the cotter pin back after you put back the handle. There was a case when someone forgot to put the cotter pin and when there was a leak in the circuit, they tried to turn off the mains - and the handle came off.

The isolation/Mains switch is the first step in protecting your home and lives.
You can install the SPDs and the real ground bar as planned. Only thing is use heavy multi strand wires to connect the SPDs and the ground. You need to sink high currents to the ground if need be.

Xiomi products, in my experience fail at the drop of a hat. I bought half a dozen Wifi Switches and all of them conked off within 3-6 months. I went for Sonoff after you suggested. They are surely better.
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Old 29th October 2020, 09:59   #8306
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Default Re: The Home Appliance thread

Am looking at a 600+ litre single side fridge (not side by side). Which models and brands should i consider? We have always owned samsung fridges and have been considering this model:
https://www.amazon.in/dp/B01F1TTLL8/..._PkKMFbKRZA024

Vegetarian household if that helps.
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Old 29th October 2020, 14:01   #8307
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Default Re: The Home Appliance thread

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Am looking at a 600+ litre single side fridge (not side by side). Which models and brands should i consider? We have always owned samsung fridges and have been considering this model:
https://www.amazon.in/dp/B01F1TTLL8/..._PkKMFbKRZA024

Vegetarian household if that helps.
This one says 2 Star so I'd suggest checking out more power efficient options. You can't go wrong with Samsung and LG, I personally have a Hitachi 500 litre (3 Star) for the past 4 years and it's been good.
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Old 29th October 2020, 16:44   #8308
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Default Re: The Home Appliance thread

I am looking at a smart plug or extn board to charge my gadgets. When going to bed, i want to put my mobiles (2 of them) and ipad to charge for 2 hours and then switch off instead of charging all night. Any suggestions ?
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Old 29th October 2020, 17:31   #8309
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Default Re: Bottom Freezer Refrigerator?

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Just don't buy Haier
A friend had shortlisted Haier 8 in 1, bottom freezer where the freezer can be converted to the regular fridge and asked my opinion. Naturally, I came here . What are the concerns with the Haier brand? Fit & finish BEE seems good. Checking since I have no experience.
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Old 30th October 2020, 05:25   #8310
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Default Re: Bottom Freezer Refrigerator?

There were constant breakdowns in the Haier which my in-laws owned. They replaced it quickly with a Panasonic
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Originally Posted by msdivy View Post
A friend had shortlisted Haier 8 in 1, bottom freezer where the freezer can be converted to the regular fridge and asked my opinion. Naturally, I came here . What are the concerns with the Haier brand? Fit & finish BEE seems good. Checking since I have no experience.
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