[vigsom]

Introduction

This is a brief account of an unforgettable experience () of my first, and probably last purchase via Amazon Business.

Experiences with Amazon.in and Amazon.com till this episode

We, in the family, have been long customers of Amazon with some in my immediate family being prime members. We have got all kinds of stuff ranging from coriander to cellphones from Amazon. Except one instance of a false report of nobody being at home, all other deliveries were on time and the goods were delivered in great condition.

A technical issue with my laptop that led me to exploring Amazon Business?

I'll try to make this as short as possible, but request a read.

1. My current notebook - an ASUS Vivobook was acting weird. Pressing the power on button once would not power on the machine. Initially, pressing twice or thrice got it on, so I assumed I hadn't pressed the button hard enough.
2. Those who've used ASUS Vivobooks would know that the power button is just another key to the right of the delete key on the keyboard. This is unlike the separate key on other machines.
3. This issue became progressively worse and I'd need to do all kinds of things to get the machine on - sometimes long press for 20 secs, sometimes single presses multiple times, but finally the machine would power on and run fine.
4. I did my own initial diagnosis by disconnecting the battery, pressing the power key for upto a minute (Flea power release?) and reconnected the battery - No luck
5. Disconnected the battery, connected the charger and powered on from the DC 19V source, and it would power on direct without pressing the power on button
6. I even measured the battery voltage and it showed 14.8V against the rated voltage of 15.4V. (All these 3 years I found the battery behaving fine exhibiting normal charging and discharging cycles all along)
7. Cleaned the cooling fan too for whatever it was worth, andupgraded from Windows 10 to 11 thinking that the OS update (or lack of it) might be the issue - no luck

Having hit a roadblock, I had to do something. As an industry consultant, I cannot afford to be there, presenting to head honchos, and fiddle with my laptop to turn it on. So decided to de-risk and go ahead with another laptop.

The notebook with back cover off - no abnormality seen


Fan after cleaning - not related to the issue, but cleaned as part of PM


Battery - no bulging, voltage a little lower than rated

[vigsom]

Enter my association with Amazon Business

I had an Amazon account but wouldn't buy much as we had other Prime members around in the family. I decided to convert my Amazon account to an Amazon Business account. The switch was super fast. I had to key in my GST number and all was well.

Day 0 - Choice of machine and order placement

I always make an informed choice, and this time, I was advised to go with a robust biz laptop, which I found and ordered. It was a good deal and I compared prices on the manufacturer's retail site, on other e-retail sites and found Amazon's prices competitive. Order placed and committed delivery was two days thence, but on a Sunday evening. This was from a reputed retailer with delivery fulfilment by Amazon.

Run up to delivery day (Day 2)

The app showed good updates and all seemed on course. I even got the message that the shipment was out for delivery, along with an OTP to be shared with the delivery agent. I was at home all the time, and our place of stay sees post 10pm deliveries by e-tailers as a matter of routine. I didn't suspect anything amiss until about 9:30pm that Sunday. I thought to myself - if an OTP has been given to me at approx. 6pm, the shipment should have been delivered latest by 8pm. I brushed it aside saying it was a festive holiday and maybe the delivery might at worst get pushed to the next day, which was okay. Delivery agents are also human beings and maybe they were short on staff. However, many things unfolded after that.

[vigsom]

In for some rude shocks

1. Day 2 - A few minutes after their committed delivery deadline of 10pm, the app showed an update that delivery would be delayed and ETD was three days after that day, and should the shipment not get delivered by the revised ETD, I could come back there and ask for a refund. This was strange especially as the order was out for delivery and remained so till 10pm
2. About 30 mins later, the message above got edited to state that the Item had been marked as rejected by me and was being returned to the seller
3. It was now that I realized that the delivery guys actually never attempted delivery and this was a ploy to save their skin for not fulfilling a delivery as per commitment
4. I tried reaching out to Customer care - there was no number or email either on their website or on the app
5. The menu on the app did have a Customer Service option, and right down below had two options - "Chat with us" OR "Talk to us".
6. Talk to us took me to an option titled " What do you need help with" with my only order published just below that. I selected the order, and it gave several options like order tracking and delivery, Cancel or return an item, Refunds, Feedback on seller, etc. Each of these had sub menus; no option to talk.
7. I then explored "Chat with us", and that put me on to a messaging assistant with the usual robotic questions. I selected the appropriate options, did not get a satisfactory answer, and finally asked me if I needed help with anything else, I said Yes, and this went into a loop. After multiple attempts and such loops, I finally got an option to ask an Amazon call agent to call, which happened. By now it was well past 12 midnight.
8. Day 3 wee hours - The call happened, the agent was courteous, but the end result was a big zero - I was told that since I had a Biz Account, those folks would be available only from 8am to 12 midnight, to which all I told the lady was feedback about how difficult it was to reach customer care in Amazon. She, poor thing, could do nothing and I sympathize with her.
9. I then pinged one of my ex-two downs who is currently with Amazon and he was surprisingly awake. Asked if I could call and he called back right away. He said that he'd also use the chat option, and like me, attempt multiple times to get someone from Amazon to call. He was as helpless as I was.
10. I had gotten visibly agitated by this time - this wasn't the first time I was purchasing anything on line or off line, but to get to a human being to explain the issue was just not possible on Amazon. All I needed was to tell them that the item wasn't rejected by me and I was okay with a delivery the next day, but No, that was not to happen.
11. By the time I got to bed, it was 2:30am (frustration, anger, and feeling like being cheated - all this took away all my sleep). The next morning, at about 7am, I saw a mail in my InBox that the item was being returned to the seller and that I'm being issued a refund.
12. Over the next two days, the status of my order moved from Refund Issued to Item received.
13. Day 5 - I got my refund at the end of the third business day after I got the refund mail.

Summary : Order placed Day0 -> delivery committed on Day2 end -> false notification of me rejecting the item -> refund issued Day 3 morning -> refund credited Day5 night

Shipment Tracking


Customer Service " Chat with us" Loop




Issuance of Refund

[vigsom]

My status six days after the order was placed

1. Still at square one after six days; so much time of mine wasted and so many manhours wasted at Amazon
2. I am still with my old ASUS Vivobook, which surprisingly starts up quire reliably on sleep mode. Battery holds up very well and all along, the machine has given no performance issues
3. I went through an order to a false rejection by the Amazon fulfilment team to receiving a refund. My money remained held up for almost six days. I wonder if Amazon has earned a few bucks at the cost of my agitation and sleeplessness

How am I going to manage the risk of my current notebook malfunctioning?

1. Perseverance will pay - will try finding out the actual cause in my current machine
2. The current Vivobook works - and I will figure out what to do before my next visit
3. If I need to undertake a sudden visit, I always have several brick and mortar set ups to go to and get my machine; not trusting e-tailers, especially Amazon Business on Critical to Business and large ticket items

What was good all the way from pre-order to me receiving the refund

1. Full details of all options on the website with elaborate filters to help narrow down to select options
2. Good pricing
3. Seamless payment
4. Order tracking
5. Refund issue confirmation and refund credit

What was wrong all through this episode

1. Delivery agents falsely marking the item as rejected by the customer when there was no attempt at delivery at all; Amazon does not have the mechanism to set this in order
2. Poor customer complaint redressal mechanism : No easy way to reach out to customer care; options are poorly designed and just to put the customer though a loop
3. Am sure the company has violated certain Govt guidelines on Customer complaint redressal w.r.t E-Commerce Rules
4. This is not a knee jerk reaction based on one episode, but I am convinced that Amazon's fundamentals are not customer delight oriented
a. don't have it in them to make a sale happen
b. don't have a mechanism to understand the customer's PoV
c. don't have good after sales support except maybe a good returns policy


Analysis

The inference I've drawn from this episode is

1. Delivery did not take place as it was a festival holiday and teams were short
2. Amazon might have strict punitive measures in place for delivery teams if delivery fulfilment does not happen as committed
3. As a result of 2, delivery teams have taken the easy route to save their skin by putting the blame on customers by mentioning vague reasons like rejected by customer, customer not reachable etc. Amazon has no mechanism to validate this, and like robots, just executes the refund per return policy
4. Who loses in the end - the customer and perhaps the seller
5. Amazon knows that an average Joe would get back to buying from them if they give irresistible deals, hence are taking it easy

Thank You Amazon for helping me get a new perspective of customer experience!

Am I alone in this experience?

No, although not a delivery fulfilment experience, here is one (Frustrating experience buying a new LG AC on Amazon) which showcases why one should not buy big ticket items from them. If any of you all have a similar experience, do share your perspectives.

Help from hardware experts on my first post

If any of you has a lasting solution to the issue I'm facing with the notebook, kindly post it here or PM. The machine works very well except for the erratic power on issue, and something tells me that this episode was meant to drive me to solve the issue in the current machine.

[Sheel]

Thread moved out from the Assembly Line. Thanks for sharing!

[mayukh42]

It seems these issues are happening very frequently not just with Amazon but others too, and the couriers are at the forefront.

Currently am waiting for a package shipped by a renowned PC parts seller, through DTDC. The shipment arrived at last node branch on time, a delivery attempt was made yesterday, OTP received at 6 PM, then at 9 PM another SMS received that package not delivered due to "Door Closed", when I was at home and nobody came to deliver. Did not even receive any call which has always been the case just before delivery when the guys are near my home.

Customer support of DTDC tried to link to a chatbot, but I somehow managed to talk to an executive, only to be abruptly disconnected, and was able to place the escalation in 2nd attempt. Lets see how long it takes. A quick glance at the reviews of that branch on Google does not give confidence though.

There have been similar complains about Delhivery also, so it is not only about DTDC either. One or more of these couriers are what Amazon might also be using.

The fact that the OTP is generated then package not delivered means it is a planned "denial of service", and more than the last mile delivery agent, seems to be the fault of guys managing the nodal branches. A delivery agent would never accept more packages than he can deliver, and they not being able to occasionally fulfill it should be an exception, but based others' experience it seems the issue is lately very frequent. Perhaps the nodal branch's managers already know that 20-30% of the items out for delivery wont be delivered (hiring less tempos?). So when it comes back (or perhaps never left the nodal facility at all), the managers simply add a reason attributed to the customer. This ensures that their own efficiency is not questioned by the headquarters.

Originally Posted by vigsom

What was wrong all through this episode

2. Poor customer complaint redressal mechanism : No easy way to reach out to customer care; options are poorly designed and just to put the customer though a loop
3. Am sure the company has violated certain Govt guidelines on Customer complaint redressal w.r.t E-Commerce Rules
4. This is not a knee jerk reaction based on one episode, but I am convinced that Amazon's fundamentals are not customer delight oriented
a. don't have it in them to make a sale happen
b. don't have a mechanism to understand the customer's PoV
c. don't have good after sales support except maybe a good returns policy

Amazon for one was known for its customer service, that is what propelled it to the top. Now with all these chatbots making it so difficult to reach actual humans, the experience is degraded too much. Their customer executives when can be reached, are very polite and try to help; the problem lies at the top.

Another thing I have observed lately is that many product pages do not always make it clear if the seller is "a-fulfilled".

These have impacted my preference of using Amazon. Prices are also only good during some sale (not all sales; this year better on Freedom Sale than Prime Day e.g.). Now with couriers not honoring basic service agreements, it will affect all e-sellers, and perhaps it is time to move to brick and mortar stores again. Even if the prices are a bit higher there, the overall experience of seeing a product in person, buying it outright and able to use the product immediately after paying for it, without delivery uncertainties, is much better. (This is not completely disagreed by Amazon either; they have opened some physical stores - "Amazon Go" - in the US).

[poloman]

I have been warning members of this forum about amazon and their poor customer support practices. I faced a similar issue around the Ganesh Chaturthi holidays when delivery guy simply absconded with Amazon fresh items. More details here.
https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/shift...ml#post5838110 (Amazon vs Flipkart - Which do you prefer & why?)

One need to be really careful when placing orders on Amazon. Most prices are jacked up compared to local market or even market places like Flipkart, Myntra etc. One should do a comparison or prices before placing any order. There are no discounts available either.

The customer support is non existent if something goes bad. There is no escalation matrix and due to this the agents don't care. My issue is still not resolved even after 5 days.

The amazon pay card used to be a good bargain earlier. Now you can't augment the cashback points against the purchases. You can only use this as a wallet.

I used to spent a considerable amount on Amazon from groceries to electronics to bill pay and what not. Still you are treated like trash by their customer service. Now use the site sparingly only for items you can't get elsewhere.

[condor]

With a lack of easily-reachable human customer-support on Amazon, I have reduced high-value purchases there. Laptops I can get through my friend & Small Business owner.

Maybe @vigsom, you can try a CoD next time. Let the item come, open it, and then do a UPI payment. This may actually help

[FrozeninTime]

Originally Posted by mayukh42

It seems these issues are happening very frequently not just with Amazon but others too, and the couriers are at the forefront.

The issues are due to hostile attitude of GOI towards Amazon leading to reduced investment and ultimately forcing customer towards Brick and Motor stores which is what GOI wants.

[AMG Power]

1. Your experience with Amazon is par for the course. Nothing to get agitated about. Set expectations accordingly.

2. Never buy laptops, mobiles, and other expensive gadgets as there is a higher risk of landing up in trouble.

2. Never buy anything on Amazon other than through COD.

3. Don't expect support. If you need it, you're doomed.

4. Use Flipkart and other online companies. Get a feel of how the market works so you have realistic expectations. They’ve all become equally bad.

5. Getting Amazon to call you can be done in a round about manner. You have to work through issues raised / payment problems etc (not necessarily the issue you face) and the call button will then work.

6. Have a lot of Amazon pay cashbacks which I haven’t received despite escalations. One has to forget about cashback promises from Amazon.

Its become a Lalaji company to beat other Lalaji companies.

[Linuskm]

I have had a similar bad experience last month when I bought a gaming laptop, to my shock this was a laptop with expired warranty, guess someone else before me had returned the product back to the seller.

It is a pain to talk to Amazon customer service and get things resolved since they are hard to reach out to. Once you reach them atleast things move in a positive direction. Took almost 2 weeks for me to get my refund back from Amazon.

[ani_meher]

If the promised delivery didn't happen on day 2 and your order was refunded on day 3 (actual money transfer takes a few days more), you could have ordered the same laptop again. If you got some extraordinary discounts in the first order, you could persuade Amazon to repeat the same discount on the next order of same product.

I think flipkart is the worst when it comes to heavy / costly items. In case something goes awry, they will keep on delaying the delivery forever, neither delivering not refunding the order. One would have no option to wait till the order gets closed or cancelled by their end. At least amazon immediately cancelled the order, freeing you to explore other options including reordering.

[ike]

My preferred outlet for electronics/home appliances is usually Croma. They are quite courteous and more importantly price match with Amazon. If Croma's rates are higher than Amazon, all you have to do is show the Amazon price. Has worked for me twice.

[freelancer6202]

I trust amazon blindly. Coming from a guy who orders even his toothpaste and soap from amazon, I have never faced any major issue. Ofcourse there are instances where Items dont match the description but amazon has always refunded or replaced or allowed me to keep the item and deliver a new one or refund. I have bought ducati parts, lancer spares, washing machines, fridge, dish washer, car alloys, car accessories,
clothes and much more . I avoid going to shops and deal with physical stores as much as possible. After covid, crowded places make me nervous without masks. (I am a Doctor. ) It is and will be my preffered shopping channel online. As long as it is on amazon I am not buying it from anywhere else. It is puzzling when I hear others having bad shopping expeirences with Amazon.

[xenon0025]

Originally Posted by mayukh42

It seems these issues are happening very frequently not just with Amazon but others too, and the couriers are at the forefront.

I faced similar issue a couple of months back with Flipkart.

I had placed an order for a medium size checkin bag and I got a notification in the evening that the item is out of delivery. The item did not get delivered and I thought it might get delivered the next day. But the status remained same as Out of delivery. Then on the 3rd day I reached out to Flipkart customer care and asked them to cancel the order. Surprise surprise! They tell me that the order cannot be cancelled as it is out for delivery and if in case it is delivered, I can reject it during delivery. Got it escalated and finally the order was cancelled the next day.