![]() | #2131 |
Senior - BHPian ![]() Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Noida/Delhi
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It was a little tongue in cheek Samurai carrying on from the discussion in this thread. Navin posted a eulogy to it and I think its a great camera and very good looking in a rugged sort of way. The Hummer of cameras! |
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![]() | #2132 | |
Team-BHP Support ![]() ![]() | ![]() Quote:
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![]() | #2133 |
Senior - BHPian ![]() Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Noida/Delhi
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![]() | #2134 |
Team-BHP Support ![]() ![]() | ![]() What does APS-C sensor have to do with size of prints. As long as you have a low noise image(read all APS-C cams at ISO800 or below you can push it depending upon DPI. for example if you use a 12MP camera(4000x3000) pixels you can get prints at photo resolution with size 26.7x20" At 72dpi which is the normal screen resolution and is often used for poster printing you get 55.6"x41.7" If you are going high rez(300DPI) You get 10"x7" prints. Pentax K20D has a 14MP sensor, and gives very clean results unless you are doing ISO1600. you can go to higher print sizes at that. Also be aware that most labs will print 150dpi here which is normal resolution at which photos are printed. 300DPI is rarely used. |
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![]() | #2135 | |
Senior - BHPian ![]() Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Noida/Delhi
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Usually when one talks of the quality of an image and its rendition one is talking high res - at least I am. Why does an 8MP p&s not compare with an 8MP DSLR - what changes? The size of the image sensor. Now if you were to take images from both and print at low res, up to a certain size they will look the same. The difference comes when you push the technology. Say you had to crop a small portion of the image from both 8MP cameras and then print at a high resolution. Which one do you think will look better? The same goes for full frame vs APS-C and more megapixels vs less megapixels within APS-C. Be aware, more megapixels and more image sensor real estate give you more headroom, more detail and lesser noise. In my book that translates into into better large, high res prints. | |
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![]() | #2136 | |
Team-BHP Support ![]() ![]() | ![]() Quote:
When you take the current crop of APS-C cameras from canon and keep at ISO 400 or lower, you will not find any image quality hit. Infact the extinction resolution(LPH etc.,) of these APS-C cameras is at par with full frame now if you stick to the lower ISO limits. In normal photography you rarely need more than ISO 400. If you don't want to compromise print quality, print by all means at 150DPI, this is the standard photo print resolution. But printing a poster also takes into account viewing distance. So if you are planning to view from a few feet away 72DPI(screen resolution) is enough. If you want to have your poster the same rez at normal photo prints you can get 26" size prints from APS-C Using the same lens, and keeping ISO low you will not find any different in image quality related to resolution if you keep Megapixels same. However the FF may have other qualities such as higher dynamic range etc., So when a 20MP APS-C sensor comes and offers same noise levels(why not, 300D,350D,400D,450D have increased MP without noise), you will be able to print 40" posters at photo resolution. And last but not the least, many normal lenses which we use(For example the kit lens) cannot reach the LPH capability of the sensor except at certain apertures. | |
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![]() | #2137 | ||||
Senior - BHPian ![]() Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Noida/Delhi
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The difference shows up when you push it, as I said in my earlier post, or you change any one of those parameters ![]() Quote:
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Anyway we are detracting from my original question to Navin. Why does he think his niece's full frame was better than his camera when viewed on a 46" TV? His answer may put to rest some of what we've been discussing. | ||||
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![]() | #2138 |
Team-BHP Support ![]() ![]() Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Mumbai
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| ![]() thanks starscream for clearing things up. will let you know what we have decided. |
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![]() | #2139 |
Team-BHP Support ![]() ![]() | ![]() StarScream, Based on your posts, you seem to be a veteran photographer. How about sharing some of your images with us in the non-auto image thread. |
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![]() | #2140 |
Senior - BHPian ![]() Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Noida/Delhi
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| ![]() Samurai, I didn't know there was such a thread. I just saw it. That is very good idea. I think will post some of my stuff. |
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![]() | #2141 | |||
Team-BHP Support ![]() ![]() | ![]() Quote:
I state my point again, as long as you are not pushing above ISO 800, a APS-C camera like the 40D will give you same image quality like a full frame like the 5D. Of course at ISO 1600 or ISO 3200 the 5D will have a cleaner image. For day shots I have never needed to go above ISO 200. At night I use a tripod. Quote:
sure, when that happens..... Quote:
Of course you missed a fatal flaw in my argument, which I now state. I said that in 2 years time you will have APS-C pushing 15MP with clean images at ISO 800. In the same time Full frame will push 30MP with same image quality at same ISOs(maybe even better). But if you are going to print 30" posters even APS-C will do. As for your glass, would love to see your images. The best glass I own is the 74$ 50mm 1.8, and most of my photography is done by the 18-55 kit lens. | |||
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![]() | #2142 |
Senior - BHPian ![]() | ![]() Tsk its not just noise... you get much sharper images with a larger sensor too as compared to a smaller sensor, lens remaining the same. If one can afford a full frame sensor, by all means get it. Even the 12mp 5D produces images way better than my 40D. |
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![]() | #2143 | |||
Team-BHP Support ![]() ![]() Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: mumbai
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For now the 16-85 and the 80-200/2.8 is a good start. See what you photograph if you need a wide then the 11-16 is a an option if you want to go tele in good light the 80-400/4.5-5.6 is a killer lens once stopped to f/8. Quote:
The P&S was a Canon 870IS The Canon 40D had the 17-55IS on most of the time The 1Ds had the 24-70 on most of the time the shots of the P&S were patchy, the 40D shots were very acceptable but when we saw the results of the 1Ds there were differences. The 1DS was shaprer and brighter. in a indoor setting regualar 60W bulbs the Canon 40D had the 16-35 and 17-55IS the 1Ds had the 24-70 and 70-200 VR here the differences were more clear. the 40D a very very slight grain the 1Ds had none. I have now realised that most of my viewing will probably be done on a big (46"/52") TV. I wont be taking prints much. Hence a FF DSLR might be be soething I will graduate too once body prices drop to about $2000. Till then I'd have to live with the 40D. You dont realise the limitations of the 40D image untill you see the images on the 1Ds. I know for a fact that I wont print most of my photos. I know I wont reduce them to post on the web (really all that photoshop stuff does not intrigue me). I will usually only watch the stuff on the TV. What I will do is: Take card out out of cam. stick card into PS3. Use PS3 controller to watch and rewind. Simple. When card is full empty it to a USB hard disk and reuse card. Last edited by navin : 3rd May 2008 at 12:40. | |||
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![]() | #2144 |
Senior - BHPian ![]() Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Bangy Boy!
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| ![]() Hoookay Folks!!... Thanks to all your advice my "P&S" woes seem to have sorted itself out - The snaps are back to what it used to be. However all the gyan has set the dormant "upgrade bug" alight! ![]() So now the argument's stuck at two levels... First between Prosumer Vs DSLR Prosumer its between Canon S5 IS and the Panasonic FZ18 In the DSLRs it gets a little more complicated... 1. Canon EOS 450D - with the IS 55mm Kit lens 2. Canon EOS 400D - with the same IS kit lens from the 450 3. Nikon D60 - with its 55mm kit lens 4. Nikon D40X - With the D60's Kit lens! And the mother of all Q's - what ZOOM lens to buy/use along with this... without breaking my back - every which way!! Pro's/Con's ... and CONs... ![]() Confucius Rules!!! Last edited by kb100 : 3rd May 2008 at 22:04. |
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![]() | #2145 |
Team-BHP Support ![]() ![]() | ![]() For a beginner the best deal is to get a camera with in body IS. For example E-500. K10D. K200D. I am not a big fan of sony cameras(They are not bad, really). |
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