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Old 17th September 2021, 11:01   #13906
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Pricing of the iPhone 13 in various countries-

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Old 17th September 2021, 11:11   #13907
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Originally Posted by IP_Man View Post
I have been user of various models of iPhone in the past.

Absolutely pathetic quality of call volume which is barely audible in public. I really envy android for the loud call volume.

Is there any improvement of call volume in iPhone 11, 12 or 13?
I have been using an iphone 11 for almost two years now. Excellent in call volume.

A few of my friends are using the iPhone 7 and its in call volume is terrible! You can't hear anything ! however hard your press the phone in your ear. They use headsets for calling all the time.

My biggest gripe with Iphone 11 and XR is that they have very very poor noise isolation. The other person on call can hear everything going on your background (people talking, TV radio, Traffic). I can't believe why apple cannot fix it.
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Old 17th September 2021, 12:00   #13908
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Originally Posted by buntee90 View Post
I have been using an iphone 11 for almost two years now. Excellent in call volume.

A few of my friends are using the iPhone 7 and its in call volume is terrible! You can't hear anything ! however hard your press the phone in your ear. They use headsets for calling all the time.

My biggest gripe with Iphone 11 and XR is that they have very very poor noise isolation. The other person on call can hear everything going on your background (people talking, TV radio, Traffic). I can't believe why apple cannot fix it.
Just clean the earpiece with a alcohol based spray (sanitizer spray also works) and rub it with a soft toothbrush, and it will be back to factory fresh. This has happened many times in my family and friends and all of them thank me so much after i clean it for them. Generally when we talk on phone makeup/hair gel gets collected on the earpiece with sweat and causes clogging.
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Old 17th September 2021, 12:02   #13909
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I dont understand why people criticise Apple for incremental changes over 12. Do you think that is their target market? you should be environment friendly and should change phones only when it is no longer properly usable. I have been using iPhone X for 4 yrs and for me an upgrade to 13 Pro Max will be a huge one. But why are you expecting a huge upgrade from 12 Pro to 13 Pro. Are you going to change phone every year? If yes you already dont care of features, you just need latest.
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Old 17th September 2021, 12:07   #13910
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Originally Posted by buntee90 View Post
My biggest gripe with Iphone 11 and XR is that they have very very poor noise isolation. The other person on call can hear everything going on your background (people talking, TV radio, Traffic). I can't believe why apple cannot fix it.
PLease get your phone checked, my wife uses a 11 and I havenít faced such issues on calls with her, excellent clarity !
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Old 17th September 2021, 12:18   #13911
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I don't defend corporations. And I am certainly not giving in to THEIR greed. I am doing what's best for me, serving MY greed/interests. I buy Apple phones because they hold their value and I, therefore, lose a lot less money when I upgrade.
I am not defending a corporation. I am merely pointing out that if you think they are evil and greedy, the customer will have to speak from their pocket and I am not seeing that, not from you either. By the way its okay for you to be greedy as you said.

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Originally Posted by Electromotive View Post
Yes, Apple is greedy, very much so. They have the highest profit margins in the industry (greater than 40%). Source 1, Source 2
But consumers are willing to pay that price when they don't have to pay the full price upfront, like in developed markets.
Welcome to the real world. Please ask any company, if they want to as successful as Apple/Google/Facebook and I dont think any of them would say "No". The discussion about profit margin is irrelevant, it all boils down to the price the customers are willing to pay for a product. If the customer don't, their profit margins will come down. And its not special to Apple, customer dont have to pay the full price upfront no matter what phone they are buying from the service provider and its driven a by an effective financial system (credit checks etc etc).

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Going green/carbon neutral is the right moral stand to take so every billion/trillion dollar MNC is pledging to become carbon neutral; that doesn't make Apple special.
Did I say they were special? That was a response to your accusation that they are doing it only to increase their profit and not for the environment. I am saying they are doing both and its clever if it makes them even more money. It hasnt stopped you or me from buying their wares.

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In fact, Apple has used being environment friendly as an excuse to further increase profits while creating short lived products like ear pods, which get thrown away once the batteries die in a couple of years. Other companies follow Apple and add to the pile of non recycle-able waste.
AirPods weigh less than the plastic cap on a juice bottle. I wouldn't say it is a case of conspicuous consumption completely disregarding the environment. I go through a lot more plastic in an hour compared to 3 years that I will get out of my AirPods. If you are indeed worried about the environment, you can return your dead airpods to Apple for recycling and they would happily do that for you.

P.S. My AirPods Pro are almost two years old and they aren't even close to being dead.

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Originally Posted by Electromotive View Post
Other companies follow Apple and add to the pile of non recycle-able waste.
A murderer makes other people want to murder? They did not have to follow Apple and could infact have used it against Apple as one of their USP just like Apple's stance on privacy which is bringing them more customers. You can call it virtue signalling, I see it as a carefully considered business decision.
Also, I dont know what you mean by non recycle-able. Plastic has been recycled for eons now.

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Where were Apple's ethics when Foxconn was violating worker's rights and treating them like slaves to fulfill Apple's production deadlines? Then there are also the tax avoidance issues. Apple does what benefits their bottom line and keeps shareholders happy.
Where are Infosys ethics that they pay pittance to Indian software engineers vs the same engineer abroad? Oh wait, they make sure they comply with the Indian laws for an employer. Shall we start blaming the companies who outsource work to Infosys as being un-ethical?

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Originally Posted by Electromotive View Post
Don't defend corporations, any corporation, they will push boundaries and bend rules as long as they can get away with it.
I am only saying that we dont live in Utopia.

Last edited by extreme_torque : 17th September 2021 at 12:33.
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Old 17th September 2021, 12:27   #13912
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Originally Posted by M.Dua View Post
Just clean the earpiece with a alcohol based spray (sanitizer spray also works) and rub it with a soft toothbrush, and it will be back to factory fresh. This has happened many times in my family and friends and all of them thank me so much after i clean it for them. Generally when we talk on phone makeup/hair gel gets collected on the earpiece with sweat and causes clogging.
They have tried that many times and got it cleaned from Apple Service Centre also, its a little better for few weeks and then back to poor. Iphone 7 has inherently very low earpiece volume. One of the Iphone7 toting friends now upgraded to iphone 12 and its in call volume is excellent.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nirmaljusdoit View Post
PLease get your phone checked, my wife uses a 11 and I havenít faced such issues on calls with her, excellent clarity !
I must ask you to try calling her when she is in a busy area!
I have four iphones 11(2),XR,12 in my circle all purchased at different times/different places(Countries)and all have poor noise cancelling in calls.

Pardon me, but maybe you are used to it by now, or usually your wife is in a quiet area when you call her.
I used a pixel 2XL earlier and its noise isolation was excellent! No one ever complained me about people talking/traffic/music in the background.

In my experience Noise cancellation/isolation On a scale from 1 to 10 Pixel 2 XL: 8
iphoneXR/11/12 : 2
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Old 17th September 2021, 12:39   #13913
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Originally Posted by @og_adi View Post
Pricing of the iPhone 13 in various countries-

Attachment 2208147
Have been on iPhone since 3G model and I used to upgrade phones every 2 years, primarily since I get a decent resale from the old phone plus launch time deals. I am currently on 11 Pro, and 13 Pro would have been a normal upgrade. This time though I am not convinced and here is why.

Even if I make use of GST credit and discount looking at paying about 1.05 Lakhs for the new 256 GB 13 Pro Vs US price converted would be still about 88k. Let's say I manage to sell the old phone for 40k, still paying 60k for the device in India.

For:
  • An improvement in camera, screen, better processor and battery life.

Against:
  • 11 Pro is still under apple care, showing 95% battery, can easily take another year of my usage without having issues.
  • Apple care for new phone is some 23k since they upgraded to Care + Vs some 4-5k earlier.
  • The camera usage still would be 10% of my use, for me the newer chip would have maximum advantage along with slightly better battery back up, which is not at all show slower, forget stopper lol.
  • Apple does not even offer a charger or a ear phone buds anymore after paying such a premium.

Apple care and the phone accessories though looks trivial, would have been a decision changer for me when am paying big bucks I feel...

In short first time since I moved to iPhone, I don't feel that YOLO or special feeling towards the new iPhone... I think I will just wait for another year or more..
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Old 17th September 2021, 12:51   #13914
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I usually upgrade every other generation (or so) and think I'm going to be passing on the 13 as well. Very happy with my 11 Pro Max. The cameras are still top notch and keeps me wanting for nothing.

Maybe we get a notchl-free phone next year...
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Old 17th September 2021, 13:45   #13915
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Originally Posted by extreme_torque View Post
if you think they are evil and greedy, the customer will have to speak from their pocket and I am not seeing that ...
it all boils down to the price the customers are willing to pay for a product. If the customer don't, their profit margins will come down...
they are doing both and its clever if it makes them even more money. It hasnt stopped you or me from buying their wares.
Thanks for that well written reply. Some very good arguments.
All the above points do not refute the premise that Apple is greedy. They are just very well positioned and deeply entrenched into the consumer mind space to get away with those fat margins. Desirable products certainly do help.

Why do you think iPhones retain more value in the used market? People are willing to pay higher prices. Why? Because brand cachet and desirability. Apple products might as well qualify as veblen goods.

Quote:
AirPods weigh less than the plastic cap on a juice bottle. If you are indeed worried about the environment, you can return your dead airpods to Apple for recycling and they would happily do that for you. ...Also, I dont know what you mean by non recycle-able. Plastic has been recycled for eons now.
Not sure how e-waste is recycled due to plastic and metallic composition, but it surely isn't as simple as plastic bottle caps which are entirely plastic. Truth be told, most plastic isn't recycled and ends up in landfills even in the developed nations. Also, points to Apple if they actually recycle free of charge.

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A murderer makes other people want to murder? They did not have to follow Apple and could infact have used it against Apple ...You can call it virtue signalling, I see it as a carefully considered business decision.
A murderer getting away with murder makes potential murderers think they too can get away with murder. The end result is more murders.
Other companies see Apple raking in fat profits and think they too can with their iclone and that starts the chain of me-too products which are nowhere near as good as Apple's. These lower quality products get disposed off more frequently generating more waste. Being green and virtue signalling isn't profitable so everyone loses due to precedents set by Apple.

Quote:
Where are Infosys ethics that they pay pittance to Indian software engineers
I never saw any suicide prevention nets around Infy's offices, did you? And comparison to foreign engineers might be unfair given the standards of their education.

Tl;DR:
Apple is a very efficient and well oiled profit generating machine (greedy) that can get away with charging big bucks because of the cachet of the brand they have built and the consumer mind space they occupy. As the judge in the Epic Vs Apple suit observed - it is not illegal to be successful. But it also falls on Apple to not exploit their position of power, but who am I kidding, that won't make the shareholders happy. Maybe there will be stronger competition someday or consumers might decide that Apple has too much influence over them. One can hope, surely.

Last edited by Electromotive : 17th September 2021 at 13:49.
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Old 17th September 2021, 13:57   #13916
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There are very few people (hopefully) who can afford to upgrade the phone every year. Most of the junta updates on 2-3 years cycle, while people like me update after 5-6 year cycle.
Even if everyone could afford to upgrade phones every year, I don't see the reason why they should do that. I know some cousins/friends who have a different phone in their hands every few months! When I ask them about their old phone, they always say: "I sold it for a good price". I have no idea why they do that. Mobiles like Cars are meant to be used for a long time unless one absolutely needs to upgrade and not to show off.
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Old 17th September 2021, 14:00   #13917
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As for 120hz, the initial implementations had terrible battery efficiency and pretty bad color science as well. Samsung had the first OLED screens in a phone but search up how many of those were susceptible to burn in issues. iPhone's with oled never had any burn in issues.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.for...for-users/amp/ just a random article i found on the net. My phone has decent battery efficiency( s10 plus not s20 ultra) to go through the day.
You're right about the video and refresh rates . But I think iPhone also have their fair shares of screen problems (OLED). Who doesn't?
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Old 17th September 2021, 14:10   #13918
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Originally Posted by Electromotive View Post
All the above points do not refute the premise that Apple is greedy.
Greed is a sin according to religions. You don't need to bring religious morality into how people do business. We as consumers get world class products only because some greedy person chose to design/build/market/sell it for his own greed.

Nobody would buy Apple products if they weren't good and is simply being greedy. They do provide you the value, hence you buy it. Total cost of ownership of buying an using an iPhone is much lower than buying and using Android phones.
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Even if everyone could afford to upgrade phones every year, I don't see the reason why they should do that.
I have a colleague who bought a BMW X1 while still using a Samsung M series phone. People have different tastes and aspirations. If I were a bachelor now, I would have been buying a new phone every other month. Actually, I sometimes thing about becoming a phone reviewer so that I buy and use as many phones as I like.
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Old 17th September 2021, 14:21   #13919
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Greed is a sin according to religions. You don't need to bring religious morality into how people do business.
Interesting how you jumped to religion.
Why do you think laws against monopolies/cartels/price fixing exist? Is it to prevent companies from doing fair business? Of course not, it is to prevent companies from exploiting their position in the market and filling their coffers at the expense of others. In other words, those laws exist to prevent companies from getting too greedy. Some greed is good, a lot of it leads to disasters.

Last edited by Electromotive : 17th September 2021 at 14:22.
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Old 17th September 2021, 14:44   #13920
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https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.for...for-users/amp/ just a random article i found on the net. My phone has decent battery efficiency( s10 plus not s20 ultra) to go through the day.
You're right about the video and refresh rates . But I think iPhone also have their fair shares of screen problems (OLED). Who doesn't?
Well having issues in some cars doesnt mean all cars have the same problem unless it is something fundamental. Poor battery efficiency with initial 120hz oled displays and burn ins with older oled display were fundamental problems that effected "every" display. Apple does not have the luxury of making mistakes - the press will murder them. Imagine a fiasco such as Galaxy Fold 1 or Note 7 or Samsung's fingerprint issue, or their iris scanning which could be fooled easily or their face unlock which got fooled by a colored printout on a page or the many times they have been caught lying about the images being advertised as being taken by their phone's camera only to be found that they were from a DSLR. Its not specific to Samsung but to most Android vendors at some point because they are all fighting a spec war. Who did it first rather than who has the best implementation or user experience.



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Originally Posted by Electromotive View Post
Why do you think iPhones retain more value in the used market? People are willing to pay higher prices. Why? Because brand cachet and desirability. Apple products might as well qualify as veblen goods.
That brand cachet is not inherited but built over a period of decades to building great experiences driven by great products. The other aspect to this is their excellent after sales customer service - i have received nothing but excellent service from Apple and they dont call you out for receipt or proof of purchase - the device and its serial number is enough and therefore is much less of a risk when buying used.

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Not sure how e-waste is recycled due to plastic and metallic composition, but it surely isn't as simple as plastic bottle caps which are entirely plastic. Truth be told, most plastic isn't recycled and ends up in landfills even in the developed nations. Also, points to Apple if they actually recycle free of charge.
Well 60 odd grams of plastic over a period of 3 years which can be recycled free of charge if you gave it back to Apple. I am not sure what the argument is? As I said, I go through much more plastic every hour than I would do with AirPods in 3 years.

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A murderer getting away with murder makes potential murderers think they too can get away with murder. The end result is more murders.
Well they did not. You said it yourself, they are nowhere near Apple and I agree.

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Originally Posted by Electromotive View Post
Other companies see Apple raking in fat profits and think they too can with their iclone and that starts the chain of me-too products which are nowhere near as good as Apple's. These lower quality products get disposed off more frequently generating more waste. Being green and virtue signalling isn't profitable so everyone loses due to precedents set by Apple.
So what you are saying is, company's building substandard clones is somehow Apple's problem? Shall we also blame them for making smart phones as we know it as well because there are substandard phones around? Lets start blaming progress as well because other's might also try and copy and they might not be as good as the original.

I want to ask you though, why do you think AirPods are so successful even though they were maligned by the so called tech press for how they looked and the other's never saw the need for coming up with such a product?

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I never saw any suicide prevention nets around Infy's offices, did you? And comparison to foreign engineers might be unfair given the standards of their education.
I am saying if Infosys had nets around its offices, it is a regulation problem with Indian work place laws that the country needs to deal with, not the company which outsourced work to Infosys.

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But it also falls on Apple to not exploit their position of power, but who am I kidding, that won't make the shareholders happy. Maybe there will be stronger competition someday or consumers might decide that Apple has too much influence over them. One can hope, surely.
As a capitalist organisation they certainly would in the absence of any regulation and hence the anti trust laws in US. And its not classified as greed, its classified as abusing a dominant position. A company is not a being and therefore not "greedy".

Last edited by extreme_torque : 17th September 2021 at 14:59.
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