Team-BHP - Inverter Batteries

Quote:

Originally Posted by livyodream (Post 2955391)

1. Can we run 29" CRT TV on 850 VA 100 AH setup? If yes then for how many hours?

2. 1. Can we run 32" LCD TV on 850 VA 100 AH setup? If yes then for how many hours?

PS: there would be 1-2 CFL and a fan may be added in this. Just wanted an approx.

Switching from 2.5KVA to smaller UPS is really a pain.:Frustrati

29" CRT would consume around 150Watts or as much as a 42" plasma.

32" LCD would be around 80Watts.

So with former you would get 3 hours max and with second you would get 6-8 hours with 100 AH battery.

If the model is APC 1850SINE then I suggest going for the biggest battery possible like 200 AH Exide IT750 types.

Quote:

Originally Posted by lurker (Post 2972539)

It's not a fair price. A brand new 100 AH battery costs between 5K to 6K without any exchange.

Which brand?

I checked with a couple of other sources.
Exide: IN1000 Plus best price I have got is Rs. 7350 (after exchange discount of Rs. 800 for my 85Ah old Amaron).

Amaron: 'Current' series after exchange price is Rs. 6000 and some other series (contra?) which is maintenance free is Rs. 8100 after exchange.

All prices include include installation services as well.

Edit: Also, all dealers say that there is NO warranty if MF batteries are used with inverters. The warranty is offered only if used with online UPS. Why is that so?

Edit 2: Since inverter is inside a room, safety considerations are also important.
The PowerSafe battery from Exide will cost me Rs. 8800.
I will look at Sukam SMF batteries too.

Quote:

Originally Posted by S_U_N (Post 2972917)

Which brand?

You can find Prestolite, Bosch & Amco in this range.
Bosch 120AH: 6100
Prestolite 120AH: 5900
Amaron 120AH: 6600
Panasonic 120AH: 6900
Luminous 120AH: 5500
Exide 120AH: 7200

so take your pick. Even in Exide SF Sonic is cheaper than Inverter PLUS. And only Exide has the stupid precondition of giving warranty only on UPS and not for inverter. The reasoning is that UPS has a lower wattage, better quality battery charger perhaps than just any local inverter.

@lurker: Thank you for the price list. I will do some more research, though I have not heard about some of these brands.
How good are Bosch, Prestolite and Amco batteries compared with Amaron/ Exide?

Also, with respect to the warranty pre-condition, I was talking to someone at Sukam and was told that MF batteries are NOT recommended for inverters, since they are generally installed in colder environments such as those found with online UPS systems. At room temperatures, these MF batteries will deteriorate faster than their intended life span.
In comparison tubular batteries will serve longer and are cheaper too.

I am not very sure about the health/ safety - read - lead fumes part after reading some of the earlier posts on this thread.
My older Okaya battery was inside a cabinet (and it was not MF). Never knew that it was a health risk.

Mind you all these are FLA (flooded Lead Acid) Flat Plate batteries and not Tubular type. Anyhow all of these will easily give a service of 4 years, which I guess is more than enough. So no need to go for Tall Tubular types if you are on a budget or if you are buying more than one. But TT types will ofcourse save some floor space .

Bosch in all likelihood has Amaron as OEM. So both may be one and same. Prestolite and Amco Insta Power FLA are both very decent batteries and should easily last 4-5 years. I myself am using an Amco Insta Power FLA since past 3 years and is very dependable.

I gave this some thought and it appears that SMF battery would be my best option.
The inverter is located inside a room (where kids will be playing most of the time). I do not want any safety issues.

Now, after checking with 3 dealers, I was told that SMF battery when used with inverters will get no warranty. This was for Amaron and Exide as well. With Sukam he said, the life will be reduced but did not talk about warranty aspect.

So, is there anyone who has claimed warranty on a SMF battery when used with inverter?

Quote:

Originally Posted by S_U_N (Post 2973898)

I gave this some thought and it appears that SMF battery would be my best option

I think safety is a top priority and comes before any other factor. However, considering relocating the wet battery to another location, say a covered balcony and building a small cabinet around the battery + inverter combination to shield it from the sun and rain.

We had our inverter battery set in the kitchen but I moved it out to another location due to health concerns.

Though I must say I am surprised to note that they say the warranty will be cancelled. That may be because SMFs require different (higher) charging voltages than wet batteries and as such most inverter systems are configured to charge wet batteries only. This can lead to the SMF being under charged as a result fail faster.

Quote:

Originally Posted by S_U_N (Post 2973037)

Also, with respect to the warranty pre-condition, I was talking to someone at Sukam and was told that MF batteries are NOT recommended for inverters...in comparison tubular batteries will serve longer and are cheaper too

I agree. SMF batteries though used in UPS systems are temperature sensitive and more suited for a colder climate. India in the summer is bad for batteries not just due to the high temps but additional or prolonged load shedding and blackouts. Best to keep a tubular battery that can be topped off should the water level drop, something you cannot do with a SMF. SMFs are also more expensive.

Just some updates to give on my previous information. It seems my information was dated. Prestolite has been sold to exide. & AC Delco just brands batteries. Was just making a few phone calls to a few battery dealers and almost all of them quote inflated prices for batteries which is actually price gouging & cartelization. Most measly 135 AH batteries are being now being quoted for 9K+. Tata Green 150 AH which was around 10K a few years back is now 14K.

Looks like random dealers are quoting whatever prices come into their heads. And even El-Cheapo FLA batteries are being quoted weird prices.

Amaron dealer quoted 9128 for 135 AH and 11K for 170 AH.

@lurker: I am glad that you noticed the price hike.
BTW: I went to the house where I am moving this week to have a closer look at the inverter + battery.
The inverter is unbranded, but seems to be with good finish from outside. Rated 500W.
The battery which is now claimed to be dead by the owner, is an Amaron Hi-Way battery (130 Ah).
I am surprised that a truck battery was used by the owner.
As per owner claim this lasted him for 7-8 years, but the year printed on the battery is 2007. So, I assume the battery has lasted for around 5 years. Not bad for a SMF battery.

There was another thread where some discussion on use of automotive battery with inverters, has happened. I am not sure if there was any expert opinion on that part in the past.

Quote:

Originally Posted by S_U_N (Post 2974699)

use of automotive battery with inverters

From my understanding: automotive-battery is not designed for deep and regular discharge cycles, rather they are meant to give a high starting current and must always be kept fully charged. So they are not suitable for inverters and will die quickly if there are regular power-cuts.

The solution is tubular-batteries since they are designed for many discharge cycles, the reason they are given a 4/5 year warranty.

In Tamilnadu at present there is extreme power-cut, for 14-16 hours daily (unbelievable but true!). I had invested in an Exide tubular 100ah for Rs.12,500 one year back and it has done a wonderful job so far.

Hey S_U_N Amaron Hi-Way is not a SMF battery and for inverters the battery from Amaron is called "Current", I am currently using the same, 160Ah x 2

See the attached brochure for Sukam SMF batteries.

SU-KAM SMF BATT.pdf

I bought these (150Ah x 2) with my Sukam inverter in 2007. Those died earlier this year and I had to go for the Amaron Current as Sukam had stopped making the same. Though upon enquiring they did say that they would be restarting production around the Summer season. No idea if they did but you could find out.

If you can locate them buy them, people will lay out all sort of bull about the SMFs but having used them I highly recommend these, especially looking at the fact that I have the inverter installed out on a terrace where the setup is exposed to the extreme Dilli weather ranging from 4C in winters all the way to 44C in summers for 4 straight years. That's 4 4s there not counting these two ;)

Quote:

Originally Posted by S_U_N (Post 2974699)

The inverter is unbranded, but seems to be with good finish from outside. Rated 500W.
The battery which is now claimed to be dead by the owner, is an Amaron Hi-Way battery (130 Ah).
I am surprised that a truck battery was used by the owner.
As per owner claim this lasted him for 7-8 years, but the year printed on the battery is 2007. So, I assume the battery has lasted for around 5 years. Not bad for a SMF battery.

There was another thread where some discussion on use of automotive battery with inverters, has happened. I am not sure if there was any expert opinion on that part in the past.

How good is Exide DSP Pure sinewave home UPS 1450VA? anyone has them? they have been launched recently I guess. I'm just thinking as I'm going to buy the Exide Invatubular 150AH batteries anyway why not also go with the same brand Inverter. is this choice good (i'm mostly concerned about switchover time under load)? or sukam shiny is a better? (heard Exide purchased kevin home inverter business and those had some good reviews. so exide inverter is probably a rebranded kevin one?)

also does battery equalizers (sukam) do something or just marketing hype ?

_

Hi Guys,
I am looking out to buy an inverter and shortlisted APC 1000VA with two Exide 150AH tall tubular batteries. This is exactly the same setup i have in the ground floor and is performing flawlessly for the past 4 years even withstanding 24hr power outages with 3 fans and or 3 lights and to top that excellent service by the APC personal. Now when i enquired, i am being told that APC 1000VA(BI) inverter is not available anymore and only 850VA pure sine wave model is available. Is it ok to go for APC 850VA sinewave inverter with two APC branded 150AH tall tubular batteries?. I am aware that charging these batteries will take a long time when they are fully discharged, but is there any other issues that I need to lookout for?

Also I am thinking of using two 850VA inverters with one 150AH batteries each, connected in parallel. Can I go for such a setup without any issues?

Help me decide guys please:.

Quote:

Originally Posted by RajeswaranK7 (Post 3009088)

Hi Rajeshwaran,

Choosing an inverter depends on what you plan on running during the time when you dont have power. 3 fans and lights can be run with an 850VA inverter. Charging of the batteries depends upon the rectifier specifications given in the inverter manual i suppose.

I assume the battery output voltage is 12V, so you should get 1800W/H
and as far as parallel connecting the batteries, do consult with an electrician/tech-person handling the installation. I am sure paralleling is possible but i am not sure how parallel charging of the batteries can be managed by your inverter.

I use my inverter with a single battery (same specifications) and it gives a backup of close to 8 hours with 2 fans and 2 lights.