[Saiyan]

^hehe thought you had a high budget (this is the first time am recommending a DDR3 platform). Yes go with DDR2 setup .

E8400 is better for gaming right now, am not sure how it'll turn out when all game starts supporting the 4 cores, so Q6600 sounds good too, you can overclock it a bit, invest on a better cooler though.

As for 4850 vs 9800GTX, this will be really usefull for you 4850 or 9800gtx both $200 - TechEnclave . Do keep in mind, HD48xx series will improve a lot with their newer bios release (which will happen in a while) and the drivers.

As for the board, you are better off with a X48. You can add a 4850/70 later

[aaggoswami]

Originally Posted by flipsyde

answers for a couple of questions would certainly help me make my choice.
1) can i use the 790i/780i board with the ATI 4850??
2) the 9800 gtx i am told has phyX built into its new cards. and from what i understand thats good for gaming which doesnt seem to show on benchmarks. ATI seems to still have the edge. how come?
3) besides games i would primarily be using the comp for my autocad and 3ds max work. and specially for 3ds max a good compatible graphic card is a must. would the ATI perform better than nvidia here??

saiyan, i would mostly be running windows and my games on a 22" viewsonic monitor at 1600 X 1050. which i think is the native resolution.

1) About ATi working in 790/780 or not:

Both the ATi cards i.e. 4850 and 4870 will work in chipsets mentioned by you but you cant run them in crossfire mode.

NVIDIA nForce® 790i Series
nForce 780i SLI MCP

Originally Posted by flipsyde

@aagoswami - couldn't agree with you more. the future is never proofed with computers. but lets just say i want to take a step in that direction.

more core maybe more useful that sheer clock speed but how about 65nm vs 45nm. other than lowered power consumptions what are the other advantages??

i would mostly be sticking to windows vista home premium or ultimate.

2) The main advantage of 45nm over the 65nm processors will be lower energy consumption and consequently less heating of the processor.
However this does not mean that the 65nm are bad. They donot have any problems as far as thermal envelope related issues are concerned.

64-bit Windows Vista supports multi threading and here the quad core will be utilized better than other O.S.

[Crazy_Eddy]

Its no secret that 3D rendering benefits tremendously from a quad core. If your work involves this, the Q6600 should be your obvious choice!
@aggoswami - OS's are already capable of harnessing multi-core/multi-proc setups.

The only diff between the 65nm and 45nm procs is the die shrink (and their corresponding advantage with lower thermal/power figures). AFAIK the architecture remains completely unchanged. So you aren't really future-proofing your computer in any way by getting the E8400. Needless to say, if you plan to have your Q6600 going full-throttle for hours on end, you would be better off getting a third-party heatsink (even if you're running at stock clocks).

Regardless of what many people assume, a graphics card will mostly not accelerate your 3D rendering, it still remains largely CPU dependant!
However, where a good workstation class card (Quadro/FireGL) does make a big difference, is in the viewport window. Traditional consumer desktop cards are usually not as fast/smooth with the viewport window and with occasional driver issues, may not display all your objects correctly. Its a toss for you, to choose which is a bigger priority.
That being said, many people still use normal desktop cards for professional 3D work without too much hassle. P.s: An interesting soft-mod exists where you can convert regular Radeon HD 2000 series cards to their FireGL equivalent. Not sure if there are any such tweaks for the latest HD 4000 series cards. Similar tweaks exist for nV cards, but not sure how effective they are.

If you need Crossfire -> Intel chipsets
SLI -> nV chipsets
It has long been an unwritten rule that the best pair for your intel proc is an intel chipset. The current 7-series nV chipsets though are good.

SLI/CF scaling is largely based on driver optimisations and yes there are cases where either may not scale too well in a game. nV usually have the upper hand having promoted SLI heavily.

The HD4000 series have Physics capability on their cards too. The 8/9-series cards can offload PhysX processing to their GPU, but only with a yet-to-be-released version of the Forceware drivers.

DDR3 is still quite rare out here, and you'd be largely paying a premium for the 'early-adopter' tag. Stay with a DDR2 setup and you could get pretty good DDR2 sticks for much much less.

[Swiftron]

Originally Posted by Saiyan

^hehe thought you had a high budget (this is the first time am recommending a DDR3 platform). Yes go with DDR2 setup .

E8400 is better for gaming right now, am not sure how it'll turn out when all game starts supporting the 4 cores, so Q6600 sounds good too, you can overclock it a bit, invest on a better cooler though.

As for 4850 vs 9800GTX, this will be really usefull for you 4850 or 9800gtx both $200 - TechEnclave . Do keep in mind, HD48xx series will improve a lot with their newer bios release (which will happen in a while) and the drivers.

As for the board, you are better off with a X48. You can add a 4850/70 later

I totally agree with the processors.

As for the motherboard, i personally would suggest the nForce chipsets, they are way better than any Intel or MSI or ASUS. I personally like the way you can OC almost everypart in it especially the Corsair SLI Ready RAM, works like a charm. Better coooling is a must if you are looking to OC. I also heard the ASUS commander series is also a good one but i prefer the nForce though. Carefull which choosing the manufacturer, heard the ones made by EVGA were dead on arrival units so look for ones by XFX. DDR3 is an added advantage. Also you might want to look at a better, bigger PSU like the ones from CoolerMaster. I would suggest a minimum 800W PSU with the 780/790 board.

If you looking to use either CrossFire or SLI, i would definitely go for SLI, you can infact add upto 4 GPUs on nForce boards.

SLI Rig of the Month ? April 2008 Winner This might interest you, they come up with the best SLI systems each month. Looks, performance and everything you would want.

It would be good if you can find a 45nm processor which would result in less heat and no difference in performance whatsoever. As with processors its better to go with good amount of L2 cache increases the performance rather than just looking at the speed(GHz). Quad core is definitely recommended.

Oops, sorry gotta go now, will post more on this soon.

***These are strictly personal views.

[flipsyde]

@crazy_eddy and swiftron - thanks a bunch yours views really helped. to be quite frank i am biased towards nvidia. but i am going to get my head straight and get the one which works for me (ATI or nVidia).

a friend of mine recently picked up the XFX 790i Ultra SLI and loves it to death. its just so much cooler than anything else around. but then i am no longer 10 years old so we must move on.

i have used nvidia chipset earlier and they have been quite satisfactory. have no ideal about the intel boards though the P45 and the X48 seem to be highly recommended (on the forum and off it).

DDR3 is out. i just can't afford it for now. period. DDR2 is the way i'm going. which basically rules out 790i so i am left with 780i if i am going for the nvidia or the p45/x48 if i am going for ATI.

i am an architect. my work mainly revolves around developing concepts and conceptual models. which bring me straight to 3d modelling on 3ds max, maya and sketchup. as of now i make my models on sketchup and import them to 3ds for rendering. works fine. but i will be shifting to 3ds for good sometime soon.

though not a hard core gamer i do occasionally enjoy playing games on the computer. most of my favorites include NFS series, gears of war, assasin, hitman, max payne etc etc. as far as my video card can give me full graphics for such games in 1600 X 1200 i'm fine.

i know and love the quadro cards from nvidia. the fx3700 is brutally good when it come to smoother viewport graphics. somehow i think it does help in rendering too. can't be sure though.

and i guess the last two posts decides it then. i am going for the q6600. if the architecture is not much different in the e series i don't see why i should stick to that.

i wish i could stretch to get the q9450. good l2 cache. good 45nm. good 4 cores. its all goooood!!!

i have been hearing about the expected price drop and hence i plan to put off my purchases by a month. i am getting the stuff from the US and there are people coming in august so i might as well wait and see if the price drops.

please keep the inputs coming. i still am confused about the graphic card.

[Swiftron]

Originally Posted by flipsyde

i know and love the quadro cards from nvidia. the fx3700 is brutally good when it come to smoother viewport graphics. somehow i think it does help in rendering too. can't be sure though.

Really couldnt help myself from checking this out again, ok ok.......yeah you are right, it does help in rendering, better VRAM and better GPU....faster and smoother the rendering is. So go ahead and buy the best possible. With electronics things will never be future proof, you buy 790i today and they will come out with something that might say 890i with something better on it So all we can do is, buy whats good right now and be happy with it.

[ph03n!x]

Hi Flypside! Q6600 is a good choice for a processor, but you need to make sure the applications / versions you have are multi (not dual!) core capable. If most of them can see only two cores, then E-series would be the way to go.

If you have good contacts, source your RAM from Newegg or similar reputed sites - you get a better choice of speeds and sizes, and may get a good deal too! You can 2 x 2 GB 1066 Mhz Ram for $90.

Also, if you can stretch your budget, Q9450 is on sale for about $325 - you can get a E7200, OC it and use it for a while (it is cheap and OC's pretty good!), and then go for the Q9450 when the prices fall (expected Q3).

I have not tested a non-Intel platform with a the Core series processors, and would be getting as Asus P5Q if I were to go shopping today.

Again, I source my computer upgrades from the US, when someone I know is coming back to India. Even HDDs can be purchased for a good deals. If you can hold till Thanksgiving, nothing like it - you can get stuff at unbelievably cheap prices!

I am not a gamer, so not much on the graphics card - your budget is your limit on that one!!!

[Amey]

If i were you, i would buy this,

Asus/Gigabyte P45 board
DDR2/DDR3 ( I am inclined towards DDR3)
Intel Q9450 / Intel E8500
2 x ATI 4850 in CF mode. ( The 9 series from NV is dull and so is the GTX280 and 260.ATI on the other hand has pulled off some very nice VFM stuff.)
Seventeam 600-700W PSU

Hope that helps.

[aaggoswami]

Originally Posted by Crazy_Eddy

@aggoswami - OS's are already capable of harnessing multi-core/multi-proc setups.

1)
I dont think so.
Fog e.g Windows XP 32-bit cant really take full advantage of all the cores.

Originally Posted by Crazy_Eddy

The only diff between the 65nm and 45nm procs is the die shrink (and their corresponding advantage with lower thermal/power figures). AFAIK the architecture remains completely unchanged. So you aren't really future-proofing your computer in any way by getting the E8400.

2)
There are minor changes to architecture, but it is not a new architecture. This is part of tick-tock strategy. The next will be tock in the form of Nehalam.



IMO,
X48 borad from Asus, Q6600 processor, 2 X ATi 4850, 2 X 1 GB DDR2 800MHz RAM and 1000W+ SMPS will be perfect.

[flipsyde]

Originally Posted by ph03n!x

Hi Flypside! Q6600 is a good choice for a processor, but you need to make sure the applications / versions you have are multi (not dual!) core capable. If most of them can see only two cores, then E-series would be the way to go.

If you have good contacts, source your RAM from Newegg or similar reputed sites - you get a better choice of speeds and sizes, and may get a good deal too! You can 2 x 2 GB 1066 Mhz Ram for $90.

Also, if you can stretch your budget, Q9450 is on sale for about $325 - you can get a E7200, OC it and use it for a while (it is cheap and OC's pretty good!), and then go for the Q9450 when the prices fall (expected Q3).

I have not tested a non-Intel platform with a the Core series processors, and would be getting as Asus P5Q if I were to go shopping today.

Again, I source my computer upgrades from the US, when someone I know is coming back to India. Even HDDs can be purchased for a good deals. If you can hold till Thanksgiving, nothing like it - you can get stuff at unbelievably cheap prices!

I am not a gamer, so not much on the graphics card - your budget is your limit on that one!!!

i am not sure about the applications dude. AutoCAD 2008 and 3ds Max 2009 are what i am dealing with right now. but a little internet research shows that the quad cores do really make a difference when it come to 3d rendering which is good news to me.

i am getting most of my stuff from the US too. i have no issues waiting till thanksgiving. i just hope i get a good deal then. i have had good experience dealing with newegg.com before but couldn't be sure about their product line. can you also suggest me some other sites??

Originally Posted by Amey

If i were you, i would buy this,

Asus/Gigabyte P45 board
DDR2/DDR3 ( I am inclined towards DDR3)
Intel Q9450 / Intel E8500
2 x ATI 4850 in CF mode. ( The 9 series from NV is dull and so is the GTX280 and 260.ATI on the other hand has pulled off some very nice VFM stuff.)
Seventeam 600-700W PSU

Hope that helps.

i would love to go for the same. but its working out quite expensive. especially the processor and ddr3 ram. increases my price over all by $225 at least. lets hope thanksgiving prices in the US work in my favour.

i am kinda surprised at so many people recommending ATI video cards. i'm starting to see the error in my ways!! which brand would you go for if it was for the ATI?? - visiontek, diamond, saphire or asus???

[Saiyan]

Originally Posted by aaggoswami

IMO,
X48 borad from Asus, Q6600 processor, 2 X ATi 4850, 2 X 1 GB DDR2 800MHz RAM and 1000W+ SMPS will be perfect.

He does not need a 1000watts smps. A corsair TX650 will be perfect for this.
Welcome to Corsair :: TX Power Supply Product Information . Costs around Rs.6200/-. Else TX750 is fine too. Anything more than that doesn't make sense. The TX1000 from corsair which is seemingly the cheapest 1000W smps costs 13750.

[ImmortalZ]

Does not matter which brand. At the moment, all brands of ATI 48 series cards are manufactured by Sapphire and rebadged for other manufacturers.

To comment on some other points on this thread.

nV PhysX support is a joke. How many games use PhysX? ATI and Intel are going the Havok way which is omnipresent (Half Life2 onwards).

The GTX280 is a joke. 150$ more than a 9800GX2 and slower? No thanks.

CrossFireX scaling : Its a continuing process to improve it. nV had a head start, hence their polished SLI support.

Regarding your bad experiences, both x1700 and x2500 are budget cards with hardly any horsepower. It is no wonder you had a bad experience with them. If you work on, say the legendary 9700Pro and then are forced to work with an FX5200, you will hate nV too. But you have to understand the positioning of the cards to compare performance.

IMHO, nV really screwed with the end user with how they handled the 9 series. They made one G92 and used it to make two generations of hardware. From the 8800GT to the 9800GX2, all one chip. I guess we see how lack of competition hurts us the most.

DDR3 is still a waste of money. It doesn't help in anything other than benchmarks like the Sandra memory bandwidth test. Real life apps don't see much if any gains on DDR3.

If you do rendering or movie editing with lots of encoding involved, a quad is the way to go. The Q6600 is still a rockin' processor, if outdated in the process tech department. If you do just gaming, a dual is enough. P45 based boards are good VFM. X48 is still way too expensive.

[ph03n!x]

Originally Posted by flipsyde

i am getting most of my stuff from the US too. i have no issues waiting till thanksgiving. i just hope i get a good deal then. i have had good experience dealing with newegg.com before but couldn't be sure about their product line. can you also suggest me some other sites??

You can go wrong with Newegg.com, especially if you read their customer reviews and ratings before making a purchase. Amazon is a bit costly IMHO. Try out cheapstingybargains.com - it is lists deals, and you got to be patient enough to go through the site!

[ImmortalZ]

For calculating SMPS wattage requirements, check : eXtreme Power Supply Calculator Lite v2.5

Add 15% to their numbers for safety and you have your requirement.

[flipsyde]

Originally Posted by aaggoswami

IMO,
X48 borad from Asus, Q6600 processor, 2 X ATi 4850, 2 X 1 GB DDR2 800MHz RAM and 1000W+ SMPS will be perfect.

yikes! that works out to $1160!! and i still have to add a cabinet, HDD, optical drive, keyboard and mouse.

looks like i'l have to live with one ATI HD 4850 card for now. and as others have said i think 650watts should be fine for these components.....in fact that should do even if i am going crossfireX sometime soon.

Originally Posted by Saiyan

He does not need a 1000watts smps. A corsair TX650 will be perfect for this.
Welcome to Corsair :: TX Power Supply Product Information . Costs around Rs.6200/-. Else TX750 is fine too. Anything more than that doesn't make sense. The TX1000 from corsair which is seemingly the cheapest 1000W smps costs 13750.

won't i get good 650watt psu's for under $100??

Originally Posted by ImmortalZ

Does not matter which brand. At the moment, all brands of ATI 48 series cards are manufactured by Sapphire and rebadged for other manufacturers.

really??? didn't know that!! then maybe i should pick up the ASUS one since it has the fan control built into its bios. and its the cheapest. and i should be getting some support from rashi pheriperals in chennai in case it starts acting up.

To comment on some other points on this thread.

nV PhysX support is a joke. How many games use PhysX? ATI and Intel are going the Havok way which is omnipresent (Half Life2 onwards).

right! havok it is then i was carried away with the presence of the ageia physx card present in the HP blackbird PC. its got the sweetest enclosure ever!

The GTX280 is a joke. 150$ more than a 9800GX2 and slower? No thanks.

totally agree with you. i was surprised when a fellow member suggested i have a look at these.

CrossFireX scaling : Its a continuing process to improve it. nV had a head start, hence their polished SLI support.

Regarding your bad experiences, both x1700 and x2500 are budget cards with hardly any horsepower. It is no wonder you had a bad experience with them. If you work on, say the legendary 9700Pro and then are forced to work with an FX5200, you will hate nV too. But you have to understand the positioning of the cards to compare performance.

rightly said, i think. i have a fx5200 in my present system. its not briliant but given its price tag during its day it wasn't bad. even 4 years after i am able to run nfs carbon off it at 800X600 with medium graphics on vista ultimate.

IMHO, nV really screwed with the end user with how they handled the 9 series. They made one G92 and used it to make two generations of hardware. From the 8800GT to the 9800GX2, all one chip. I guess we see how lack of competition hurts us the most.

you say that but i know this guy who works with commodore gaming in bulgaria and he swears by his 2 X 8800gt SLI. i'm sure the 8800gt will go down memeory lane being known as one of the best cards during its time.

DDR3 is still a waste of money. It doesn't help in anything other than benchmarks like the Sandra memory bandwidth test. Real life apps don't see much if any gains on DDR3.

not today they don't but how about future apps?? maybe a year or so down the line. but thats a mute point since DDR3 is a little above my price bracket right now. unless it falls drastically by thanksgiving.

If you do rendering or movie editing with lots of encoding involved, a quad is the way to go. The Q6600 is still a rockin' processor, if outdated in the process tech department. If you do just gaming, a dual is enough. P45 based boards are good VFM. X48 is still way too expensive.

rendering, yes. no movie editing though. either way i guess i will go for the q6600. i really want the q9450. lets see what the third quarter of 2008 has instore for processor pricing.

Originally Posted by ph03n!x

You can go wrong with Newegg.com, especially if you read their customer reviews and ratings before making a purchase. Amazon is a bit costly IMHO. Try out cheapstingybargains.com - it is lists deals, and you got to be patient enough to go through the site!

cheapstingybargains.com is really good!! thanks for the link.