Team-BHP - The Laptop Thread: Configs, deals & questions

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Originally Posted by WhiskeyTangoFox (Post 5767192)

Hi All! Thank you all for your inputs, and I have an update on this front. I decided to go down the Tablet + Keyboard route, for a few reasons:

Overall, I'm super stoked with my purchase!

Was considering the oneplus tab, but went with the Samsung Tab S9FE 5G and the Book Cover Keyboard for 39k. eSIM connectivity and the included S Pen were important for my requirement, especially during travel. Max I have got is screen time of ~7 to 8 hours. Keyboard is reasonably comfortable, with adequate keypress but cramped just like most tablet keyboards of this size. HDR10 works fine, but like other Samsung tabs- I believe Dolby Vision is not supported. Having used Xiaomi and Ipad, somehow I find the Samsung tab more easy to use. One irritant is inability to connect to Samsung wearable smartwatches/app.

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Originally Posted by xotiq (Post 5767723)

Lovely. Good choice! The S Pen and LTE wasn't a priority for me. The Keyboard however was. The Galaxy Tab's keyboard is a whopping 19k and since I wanted atleast 8GB RAM if not 12GB, the S9 was simply too expensive for me. The oneplus does have this cellular sharing feature if you have a oneplus phone, wherein it relays the 5G network onto the tablet, enabling me to take calls and text messages. I think Apple already has a similar feature.

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Originally Posted by rosh_aveo1.4 (Post 5768804)

Did you also check out the Xiaomi Pad 6? I think it's almost the same spec and little more lower priced? Like that it comes with a pen option as well which is no longer for sale in One Plus (and the monitor output option). The keyboard does not have a touch pad though. I was planning for the same setup.

I did check out the xiaomi pad too! But since I had prior experience with Oneplus, still have a OP phone, decided to go with them. A trackpad on the keyboard is also somewhat important to me, although I do use a mouse occasionally. Plus, the extra RAM and bigger battery couldn't hurt XD

Dear All,
My kid is in the last year of school and intends pursuing Computer Science or an allied stream next year as part of her graduation. The time has come when she needs a laptop for herself - projects assignments etc. I have an iPad pro at home for myself and a samsung tab which sufficed our needs thus far (including online classes during COVID). However, the kid says, her school programming (dunno what it is), needs a 'proper' laptop with Mac/ Windows. I am in a dilemma on what to buy, a conventional windows laptop (which in my personal experience doesn't last beyond 4-5 years, I have already gone through three of these) or a Macbook M2 (heard only good things so far). Whatever I buy will be taken by the kid to her college/ hostel etc. A part of me thought that the Mac would be too expensive a device for a college hostel (coupled with her carelessness/forgetfulness) but then an i7 laptop is almost the same price. For the record, I am getting the macbook from the US at about 70k while an i7 is costing 55-65k here. Do I buy a cut rate laptop now for the next 4 years and then upgrade or buy a good one the first time around? I am looking for some quick inputs, advice and suggestions here. I am not an IT guy.:coldsweat

Nothing touches a Macbook with M chip, especially if you are getting it at prices comparable to Windows. Get that only. Take the Apple Care+ package that covers damages. Or you can get insurance for it. See prices at local stores too. I have seen deals at 70k in India too.

No Windows laptop can touch the Macbook for hardware quality, speed, battery life (10 hours), keyboard pleasure, trackpad & durability. We now have 6 Macbooks in the family (including siblings) and all of them are running like champs (one is 10 years old, another 6 and another 5).

I'm running Windows on two of my Macbooks.

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Originally Posted by NetfreakBombay (Post 5780222)

Hopefully, things will change in next few weeks w.r.t. battery and speed.

Like Apple, Microsoft have ditched Intel for ARM and have used a CPU built by same team that designed M1 CPU for Apple.

Review units have reached usual suspects, we should hear more by end of June.

I've long wished for the Windows laptop world to have access to a similar quantum leap in everyday usable battery life and performance that the M-series chips brought to the Mac world.
However, from a cursory glance it looks like Microsoft and Qualcomm are being ever so slightly disingenuous with their not-quite-apples-to-apples comparison (pun unintended).
They're benchmarking against the fan-less Macbook Air right? But none of these new Copilot Plus designated ARM Windows laptops is fanless. Wouldn't it have been fair to benchmark against the fan equipped Macbook Pro with M2/3 chips?

That being said, if Qualcomm can continue to iterate till it reaches near parity with the M-series Macs, I'm happy, especially if Microsoft ensures that Windows on ARM isn't as handcuffed an experience it has been thus far. Basically most of us just want to be able to use an ARM Windows PC same as an X86 based one. Like always, the massive backwards compatibility requirement for Windows can sometimes hamstring it, I hope it's not true for ARM chips anymore on it.

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Originally Posted by ads11 (Post 5780905)

However, from a cursory glance it looks like Microsoft and Qualcomm are being ever so slightly disingenuous with their not-quite-apples-to-apples comparison (pun unintended).
They're benchmarking against the fan-less Macbook Air right? But none of these new Copilot Plus designated ARM Windows laptops is fanless. Wouldn't it have been fair to benchmark against the fan equipped Macbook Pro with M2/3 chips?

That being said, if Qualcomm can continue to iterate till it reaches near parity with the M-series Macs, I'm happy, especially if Microsoft ensures that Windows on ARM isn't as handcuffed an experience it has been thus far. Basically most of us just want to be able to use an ARM Windows PC same as an X86 based one. Like always, the massive backwards compatibility requirement for Windows can sometimes hamstring it, I hope it's not true for ARM chips anymore on it.

IIRC, SD Elite was benchmarked against Apple M3 and beat it comfortably. Laptops based on these chips are to drop in anytime now.

AMD too joined the foray yesterday with their chips. Things should spice up quickly.

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Originally Posted by handsofsteel (Post 5779046)

Don't think about a very long life here; she will mostly change the laptop once she graduates anyway. So it is about the next four years. Buy the latest version of the machine whether you go for MacBook or Windows. Also, if going for Windows, my favourite is Lenovo Thinkpad.

Between Windows and mac, some factors you may want to consider:

1) Ease of repair: The location of the college may determine if a Mac service centre is easily accessible.

2) compatibility with school infra: Although Macs do come with HDMI output now, and this should not be a problem but still check

3) Will she use an iPhone/iPad? Staying in the same ecosystem has its benefits, though this should not be a deal-breaker.

I would suggest getting what the college/ undergrad school recommends. Also a lot of colleges these days do a bulk deal with certain brands/vendors for incoming batches. That may save you a bunch of money and also provide for easy repairs...since the brand would be invested in maintaining a better experience for the students.

Don't worry about battery life; under what situation would she need a backup that is more than 3-4 hrs. Dorm rooms, classrooms, and libraries all have electricity outlets these days.

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Originally Posted by ads11 (Post 5780905)

However, from a cursory glance it looks like Microsoft and Qualcomm are being ever so slightly disingenuous with their not-quite-apples-to-apples comparison (pun unintended).

Certainly. They are pushing their own agenda.

In few weeks, we should have real numbers though. Like :

YouTube on a loop, how long does battery last
Encoding 20 min / 1 hour / 2 hour video; how long does it take and how much batter does it consume
Compiling large-ish code like Chromium / Python from C++; How does cpu and battery performance compare with i7 / M3 / i5 etc.

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Originally Posted by NetfreakBombay (Post 5780222)

Like Apple, Microsoft have ditched Intel for ARM and have used a CPU built by same team that designed M1 CPU for Apple.

I sure hope so, man! I love Windows OS and I hate MacOS. Am running Windows on my new Air using Parallels virtualization which is really not the same as running Windows natively.

But the problem is, even choosing a good Windows laptop is tough.

- With a Macbook, you just walk into an Apple store and buy your laptop based on screen size & budget. You'll never end up with a "bad" Macbook.

- While shortlisting Windows laptops, I drowned in the sea of options (had even opened a Team-BHP thread on it). Dell, Lenovo, HP and their gazillion models. Which one is reliable? Which has good build? Who offers great after-sales support? Which chip? Ryzen? There is just way too much research required for buying a good Windows laptop.

Plus, I have to tell you. After using top-of-the-line Dell laptops for years, nothing beats a Macbook for build quality, beautiful keyboard and that amazing trackpad.

ARM-based laptops have a lot of restrictions that one might find frustrating, similar to Apple's limitations. Many applications are not allowed to run on ARM for reasons related to power consumption and resource consumption.

Only light Windows users should consider ARM-based laptops for basic tasks like using Excel, Chrome, browsing but nothing more than that.

The reason ARM-based laptops can offer more battery life, similar to Macs, is that they simply don't allow apps that consume a lot of power to run on their devices. This naturally results in better battery life. Many major editing software, 99% of games, antivirus software, and other power-intensive applications are not supported.

As a result, you will have a PC that is primarily for browsing and basic tasks while providing extended battery life. Apple has the advantage of apps specifically developed for their ecosystem, though many apps are still not available. ARM-based devices will likely evolve in a similar direction over time.

If only this basic apps is your need why not consider chromebook OS. That would give similar batery life like MAC.

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There are some limitations when you run a Windows 10 Arm-based PC:

Drivers for hardware, games and apps will only work if they're designed for a Windows 10 Arm-based PC. For more info, check with the hardware manufacturer or the organization that developed the driver. Drivers are software programs that communicate with hardware devices—they're commonly used for antivirus and antimalware software, printing or PDF software, assistive technologies, CD and DVD utilities, and virtualization software.
If a driver doesn’t work, the app or hardware that relies on it won’t work either (at least not fully). Peripherals and devices only work if the drivers they depend on are built into Windows 10, or if the hardware developer has released Arm64 drivers for the device.

64-bit (x64) apps won’t work. You'll need 64-bit (Arm64) apps, 32-bit (Arm32) apps, or 32-bit (x86) apps. You can usually find 32-bit (x86) versions of apps, but some app developers only offer 64-bit (x64) apps.

Certain games won’t work. Games and apps won't work if they use a version of OpenGL greater than 1.1, or if they rely on "anti-cheat" drivers that haven't been made for Windows 10 Arm-based PCs. Check with your game publisher to see if a game will work.

Apps that customize the Windows experience might have problems. This includes some input method editors (IMEs), assistive technologies, and cloud storage apps. The organization that develops the app determines whether their app will work on a Windows 10 Arm-based PC.

Some third-party antivirus software can’t be installed. You won't be able to install some third-party antivirus software on a Windows 10 Arm-based PC. However, Windows Security will help keep you safe for the supported lifetime of your Windows 10 device.

Source

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Originally Posted by raptor_diwan (Post 5782176)

The reason ARM-based laptops can offer more battery life, similar to Macs, is that they simply don't allow apps that consume a lot of power to run on their devices. This naturally results in better battery life.

I don't think that's true. ARM is fundamentally different which is what contributes to the power saving features. For the same app (such as Excel and word) arm processors are more efficient than x64 processors.

Having said that, you are right about the fact that many apps don't exist for arm/windows as they need to be rebuilt. You cannot just download an app from the internet and use it as it would normally as they would be normally built for x86 or x64 for windows. So the owners of all the apps around need to rebuild their code so that it runs. This is especially true for apps that are built as machine code. Other apps such as .net apps may be built as IL code (Intermediate Language) which can be understood by the .net Runtime on arm and hence may theoretically run on arm without a compilation/build process. Same with Java apps as they only need a Java runtime on windows/arm.

However, Microsoft plans to provide a virtual machine that can run x86 and x64 code on arm - just that it will be less efficient and may not run that fast. So this is likely only an intermediate step so that everyone can be onboarded on Arm till the ecosystem improves.

Apple also did go through this problem. However, Apple already had very strict app store concept which every user is aware and hence it was comparatively easier for apple to control and get apps compiled and built for arm natively.

Having said all that,.I still feel Arm will beat x86/x64 soon, but Intel is not lying down either. Intel needs to roll out their power saving features much faster now - and I believe they will too. It's an interesting game now - the next 3 to 4 years.

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Originally Posted by GTO (Post 5779529)

No Windows laptop can touch the Macbook for hardware quality, speed, battery life (10 hours), keyboard pleasure, trackpad & durability.

Running a surface laptop here, and other than the glare, it's quite good! Probably the best keyboard and video cam combo I've used without the Apple shenanigans that Louis Rossman will gloat about until he's fallen asleep at the mic, every night, for life. :coldsweat.

Apple is simply mean and then I'd go the extra yard to avoid them. They've really been a wrecking ball to the right to repair and what not.