8 mega pixel camera

navin · 19th October 2005, 13:17

A family member wants a pocketable digicam. budget 20K. here are my options.

I am eliminated the Fuji E900, Ricoh RX8 and Samsung V800.

Fuji because it uses AA batteries and digicams eat such batteries. Li-ion batteries though proprietory make more sense. and it has a 2" LCD screen when todays standard is already 2.5" and 3.5" is already out. Besides it uses xD cards and does nothing special.

Ricoh because of it's 1.8" screen and dated specs.

Samsung because of it's below average lens

tsk1979 · 19th October 2005, 14:48

First of all, do not buy a digicam for another 3-4 months, if you have to make sure it does not have a sony sensor.
Regarding your question,
A better place to ask this question would be http://www.dpreview.com. Its the best site and will give you info which no other place can, You can also see Jeff Kellers http://dcresource.com

As for AA batteries, its better if your camera has AA, you are not stuck if rechargables run out of juice. Moreover the battery life is decided by CIPA standard tests which sites like dpreview conduct.
With your kind of budget all you need to do is click on buying guide, select "Compact" and price < 600$ and resolution 8MP.
Canon S80 looks like the sensible choice, do check out
When you are done with finalizing the camera check out user feedback too on http://www.dcresource.com

navin · 19th October 2005, 15:06

tsk1979, I saw dpreview and dcreource as well as imaging-resource but since these camera are fairly new there are few comparitive reviews about them.

The Sony N1 was not considered because of it's CCD sensor.

Rtech · 19th October 2005, 15:10

Didn't you say you were a Nikonian?

Though I've heard their point-n-shoots are not too good in low light conditions. Don't know if they rectified that as yet.

Rishi · 19th October 2005, 15:16

Navin,

the higher the pixels, the greater the noise (digital noise). It doesnt make sense in taking a camera with a higher pixel value, if he is not going to use the pictures for printing purposes.

For avg daily shooting, IMO it makes sense to take a camera with max of 5 MPix.

I suggest, go for cams with a higher optical zoom capabilities. Which do come handy.

navin · 19th October 2005, 15:16

Rtech, It is for a family member who wants to carry the camera in his jeans pocket so he dont look like a tourist.

I am a Nikonian as I have a F80 kit. I also have a Canon G2 and 420EX. A Panasonic 851 DVcam and a Hassie 500CM with 80 and 160mm lenses in LA. I am to Nikon or Canon but will buy whatever works best for me. I use the G2 for my digital photos (the stuff JK Das put up).

tsk1979 · 19th October 2005, 15:19

Sony sensors are there in all canon, nikon, konica, pentax etc., etc,. thats why all camera manufacturors have issued advisories.
Any specific reason for 8MP. There are amazing 7/6MP camera available in the compact range. As far as 8 is concerned the range is very limited.
Moreover 8MP will not give you very good quality in compact. 7/6 would be a better bet. Cramping more MPs on a small sensor shoots up noise. If you check out reviews of 7MP compacts too, you will see that noise is a major issue, esp shadow noise. It takes away the advantage of the extra 1-2 MP.
So rethink your choices and check out the 7/6MP range also

Rtech · 19th October 2005, 15:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by tsk1979

Sony sensors are there in all canon, nikon, konica, pentax etc., etc,. thats why all camera manufacturors have issued advisories.

Advisories for what? What's the problem?

tsk1979 · 19th October 2005, 15:37

@ navin, check out http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/spec..._stylus800.asp, seems like a great cam. I checked out the review for Panasonic LX camera and in that they compared the noise graphs. This camera has really low noise and ISO 1600 capability!

@rtech, http://www.dpreview.com/news/0510/05...cdadvisory.asp
This is the olympus advisory for older models. Lots of other manufacturers have also issued, you can check out dpreview.com main page you will see canon nikon etc.,
Looks like the sony CCD was defective. As most manufacturers use sony CCD, the digital camera world is in a tiffy

Samurai · 19th October 2005, 15:40

http://www.dpreview.com/news/0510/05100701sony_ccds.asp

Damn! Mine is the first camera (F-717) mentioned there...

Will they fix it free in India too? However, my camera doesn't exhibit any of the problems mentioned there, distorted or no image in Camera mode. May be I am safe.

satish_appasani · 19th October 2005, 15:42

Navin

I bought a Kodak LS755 5MP camera 2 weeks ago. It will sure fit in to your cousin's jeans pocket. At that time, there was a 20% discount from Kodak on this camera. The original price was Rs.20,000.

I posted a picture here:
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7975

Rtech · 19th October 2005, 15:44

whew, Canon hasn't mentioned my model so i guess I'm safe.

But the fact that established companies like Canon, Nikon and olympus use Sony CCD's is a bit of a shock to me.

tsk1979 · 19th October 2005, 15:49

On low end(non slr type) camera mostly sony rules the roost, but for high end cams canon uses its own CMOS type sensor and not CCD.
Canon, nikon etc., make excellent glass but were originally not digital cam companies. So they chose the sony route. Nikon/Pentax use Sony CCD on their SLR cams too, D70/D50 in case of nikon and Pentax *ist D,DS,DL in case of pentax.

navin · 19th October 2005, 16:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by tsk1979

Any specific reason for 8MP. There are amazing 7/6MP camera available in the compact range. As far as 8 is concerned the range is very limited.
Moreover 8MP will not give you very good quality in compact. 7/6 would be a better bet. Cramping more MPs on a small sensor shoots up noise.

this is why i was considering the panasonic LX1 (it has a larger sensor than the others). i thought noise was related to the in camera processing.

tsk1979 · 19th October 2005, 16:03

If you look at photographic tests in the review, you will see that this camera has to worst noise. Even at ISO 80 there is visible noise in blue. this means the camera is useless unless used in bright sunny conditions. In camera processing can only make the noise look less grainy. When there is high noise in sensor and a strong noise reduction algo is used, it leads to soft pics due to loss of detail. http://imaging-resource.com has noise graphs for most camera too. The oly 800 looks to be a good choice, you can research this cam.

View Poll Results: Which camera?
Canon S80: heaviest but has hot shoe	3	42.86%
Konica-Minolta X1: slow lens but light and has IS	0	0%
Nikon P1: but light and has Wi-Fi	3	42.86%
Olympus 800: xD card but good LCD and macro	0	0%
Panasonic LX1: noisy but sharp lens and has IS	1	14.29%
any other (please read post) options	0	0%
Voters: 7. You may not vote on this poll

19th October 2005, 13:17	#1
navin Team-BHP Support Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Mumbai Posts: 25,176 Thanked: 9,264 Times	8 mega pixel camera A family member wants a pocketable digicam. budget 20K. here are my options. I am eliminated the Fuji E900, Ricoh RX8 and Samsung V800. Fuji because it uses AA batteries and digicams eat such batteries. Li-ion batteries though proprietory make more sense. and it has a 2" LCD screen when todays standard is already 2.5" and 3.5" is already out. Besides it uses xD cards and does nothing special. Ricoh because of it's 1.8" screen and dated specs. Samsung because of it's below average lens Last edited by navin : 19th October 2005 at 13:25.
	() Thanks

19th October 2005, 14:48	#2
tsk1979 Team-BHP Support Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: San Jose, CA Posts: 23,717 Thanked: 22,813 Times View My Garage	First of all, do not buy a digicam for another 3-4 months, if you have to make sure it does not have a sony sensor. Regarding your question, A better place to ask this question would be http://www.dpreview.com. Its the best site and will give you info which no other place can, You can also see Jeff Kellers http://dcresource.com As for AA batteries, its better if your camera has AA, you are not stuck if rechargables run out of juice. Moreover the battery life is decided by CIPA standard tests which sites like dpreview conduct. With your kind of budget all you need to do is click on buying guide, select "Compact" and price < 600$ and resolution 8MP. Canon S80 looks like the sensible choice, do check out When you are done with finalizing the camera check out user feedback too on http://www.dcresource.com
	() Thanks

19th October 2005, 15:06	#3
navin Team-BHP Support Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Mumbai Posts: 25,176 Thanked: 9,264 Times	tsk1979, I saw dpreview and dcreource as well as imaging-resource but since these camera are fairly new there are few comparitive reviews about them. The Sony N1 was not considered because of it's CCD sensor. Last edited by navin : 19th October 2005 at 15:09.
	() Thanks

19th October 2005, 15:10	#4
Rtech Team-BHP Support Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Bombay Posts: 5,770 Thanked: 359 Times View My Garage	Didn't you say you were a Nikonian? Though I've heard their point-n-shoots are not too good in low light conditions. Don't know if they rectified that as yet.
	() Thanks

19th October 2005, 15:16	#5
Rishi BHPian Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Navi Mumbai Posts: 54 Thanked: 0 Times	Navin, the higher the pixels, the greater the noise (digital noise). It doesnt make sense in taking a camera with a higher pixel value, if he is not going to use the pictures for printing purposes. For avg daily shooting, IMO it makes sense to take a camera with max of 5 MPix. I suggest, go for cams with a higher optical zoom capabilities. Which do come handy.
	() Thanks

19th October 2005, 15:19	#7
tsk1979 Team-BHP Support Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: San Jose, CA Posts: 23,717 Thanked: 22,813 Times View My Garage	Sony sensors are there in all canon, nikon, konica, pentax etc., etc,. thats why all camera manufacturors have issued advisories. Any specific reason for 8MP. There are amazing 7/6MP camera available in the compact range. As far as 8 is concerned the range is very limited. Moreover 8MP will not give you very good quality in compact. 7/6 would be a better bet. Cramping more MPs on a small sensor shoots up noise. If you check out reviews of 7MP compacts too, you will see that noise is a major issue, esp shadow noise. It takes away the advantage of the extra 1-2 MP. So rethink your choices and check out the 7/6MP range also
	() Thanks

19th October 2005, 15:37	#9
tsk1979 Team-BHP Support Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: San Jose, CA Posts: 23,717 Thanked: 22,813 Times View My Garage	@ navin, check out http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/spec..._stylus800.asp, seems like a great cam. I checked out the review for Panasonic LX camera and in that they compared the noise graphs. This camera has really low noise and ISO 1600 capability! @rtech, http://www.dpreview.com/news/0510/05...cdadvisory.asp This is the olympus advisory for older models. Lots of other manufacturers have also issued, you can check out dpreview.com main page you will see canon nikon etc., Looks like the sony CCD was defective. As most manufacturers use sony CCD, the digital camera world is in a tiffy
	() Thanks

19th October 2005, 15:40	#10
Samurai Team-BHP Support Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Bangalore/Udupi Posts: 25,813 Thanked: 45,435 Times View My Garage	http://www.dpreview.com/news/0510/05100701sony_ccds.asp Damn! Mine is the first camera (F-717) mentioned there... Will they fix it free in India too? However, my camera doesn't exhibit any of the problems mentioned there, distorted or no image in Camera mode. May be I am safe. Last edited by Samurai : 19th October 2005 at 15:42.
	() Thanks

19th October 2005, 15:42	#11
satish_appasani Senior - BHPian Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Hyderabad Posts: 1,112 Thanked: 104 Times View My Garage	Navin I bought a Kodak LS755 5MP camera 2 weeks ago. It will sure fit in to your cousin's jeans pocket. At that time, there was a 20% discount from Kodak on this camera. The original price was Rs.20,000. I posted a picture here: http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7975
	() Thanks

19th October 2005, 15:44	#12
Rtech Team-BHP Support Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Bombay Posts: 5,770 Thanked: 359 Times View My Garage	whew, Canon hasn't mentioned my model so i guess I'm safe. But the fact that established companies like Canon, Nikon and olympus use Sony CCD's is a bit of a shock to me.
	() Thanks

19th October 2005, 15:49	#13
tsk1979 Team-BHP Support Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: San Jose, CA Posts: 23,717 Thanked: 22,813 Times View My Garage	On low end(non slr type) camera mostly sony rules the roost, but for high end cams canon uses its own CMOS type sensor and not CCD. Canon, nikon etc., make excellent glass but were originally not digital cam companies. So they chose the sony route. Nikon/Pentax use Sony CCD on their SLR cams too, D70/D50 in case of nikon and Pentax *ist D,DS,DL in case of pentax.
	() Thanks

19th October 2005, 16:03	#15
tsk1979 Team-BHP Support Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: San Jose, CA Posts: 23,717 Thanked: 22,813 Times View My Garage	If you look at photographic tests in the review, you will see that this camera has to worst noise. Even at ISO 80 there is visible noise in blue. this means the camera is useless unless used in bright sunny conditions. In camera processing can only make the noise look less grainy. When there is high noise in sensor and a strong noise reduction algo is used, it leads to soft pics due to loss of detail. http://imaging-resource.com has noise graphs for most camera too. The oly 800 looks to be a good choice, you can research this cam.
	() Thanks