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Old 4th February 2019, 11:41   #2071
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Default Re: Mirrorless or EVIL Cameras

Thanks for the help Navin & Dry Ice !

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You may have seen this video(its old) but sharing it anyway.. Looks like your best bet is to call Sony support. Some folks have had luck using the redeem gift card option instead of wallet, credit card or Paypal. Also try Chrome browser.
Actually I do already have about 1500 bucks wallet balance in my account. Unfortunately, for some reason, whenever I click on the purchase option it takes me to the Basic Information Page on my account rather than the Payment checkout page. Dont know why its doing that ! Will probably have a word with Sony Support and check. Tried Chrome, but only Safari is working for me on my Macbook :/


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Or you could try this free app and then decide if you still want to pay.
Will for sure check it first. Thanks for posting it !
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Old 4th February 2019, 18:02   #2072
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Isn't Sony ending this stupidly-named Play-Memories thing?

I could not make it work at all on my a6000, and the error message was designed to display on a computer monitor, so could not be read on the camera screen. One day, I chanced to try it when using my phone as a hotspot, during a landline-broadband outage... and it worked! And no, I do not have any odd firewall settings on my home router.

Treat it like diagnosing Windows problems: try stuff that couldn't possibly make a difference! And something might!
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Old 6th February 2019, 16:46   #2073
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Olympus has announced E-M1X, their biggest ever micro four third camera. This one looks so huge, I had to do size comparison. By volume, the it is 330% bigger than my E-M5mkII. I guess it will only attract professional photographers.
That is rather big. Folks who choose Olympus because of a great deal in a small package - why would they want to carry a much bigger body around?


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The specs are actually quite good and they have improved upon the IBIS as well. Supposedly you can click a 4 sec long high resolution shot while hand holding the camera!
However it is and will be limited by sensor size. I wonder how many takers are there in professional photography who will shell 3k bucks for a micro four thirds sensor with limited bokeh and subject separation.
Other camera makers are going the opposite way. Putting full frame sensors in small (and smaller) bodies. Olympus is putting a small sensor in a big body. As a technology demonstrator it is great, but I wonder about the product roadmap rationale.

IMHO once camera specs are good enough, then other things matter more, than incremental improvements in body. All cameras today are capable of taking great photos.

Last edited by nilanjanray : 6th February 2019 at 16:50.
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Old 6th February 2019, 17:10   #2074
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for a micro four thirds sensor with limited bokeh and subject separation.
You mean like this?

Mirrorless or EVIL Cameras-p2263628.jpg
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Old 6th February 2019, 19:08   #2075
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Other camera makers are going the opposite way. Putting full frame sensors in small (and smaller) bodies. Olympus is putting a small sensor in a big body. As a technology demonstrator it is great, but I wonder about the product roadmap rationale.
Agreed.
Olympus is the only major manufacturer today to wholly commit to a single sensor size. Though brave and very confident, not entirely a wise business decision.
Panasonic has also diversified into full frame, Fuji delves into APSC and Medium format, Sony, Nikon, Canon etc all have minimum two formats to chose from. Its just good business sense.

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You mean like this?
Its an excellent photograph but to prove my point or for you to refute it a similar photograph with similar focal length, aperture and a bigger sensor size will be required.

I am a satisfied user of Olympus system and am not criticising the picture quality, only pointing out the difference.
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Old 6th February 2019, 19:36   #2076
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You mean like this?
Jeroen,

It is a matter of physics and optics.

A full frame sensor does have certain advantages, for some folks. Shallow depth of field matters for certain genres, and then again, it is subjective - a matter of preferences.

These were all taken with a full frame + f/5.6 lens, in the last 1.5 months. If I had used a f/4 or f/2.8, there would have been improvement re image quality (lower noise, aesthetics, and subject isolation). There are always tradeoffs. E.g. between being nimble and mobile, vs. absolute image quality.

Mirrorless or EVIL Cameras-_dsc8140_00002b.jpg

Mirrorless or EVIL Cameras-_dsc6027_00001b.jpg

Mirrorless or EVIL Cameras-_dsc5218_00001b.jpg
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Old 6th February 2019, 19:42   #2077
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I am a satisfied user of Olympus system .
So am I.

What you think of bokeh is most likely very personal. Some people simply do not like it, some want to see something creamy etc.

I have been a member of the Royal Photographic society for about two and a half years. During those years I have been in workshops looking at hundreds and hundreds of photographs of members. Listening to comments and feedback from some outstanding photographers on members work.

I have yet to hear anybody commenting on “limited bokeh”. In fact I have yet to hear comments relating to limitations on equipment. These days we have lots of members using mirrorless systems.

It certainly wasn’t a limitation in achieving my Licentiate distinction (LRPS).

The whole DSLR vv Mirrorless has become a very theoretical debate. Yes, there can be differences, even measurable ones. But the question remains how that affects your photography in real life.

This Saturday we have our RPS Benelux Chapter Annual meeting. We have set up an interesting little project with the Indian RPS chapter. We wanted to see if there are any cultural differences on how images get reviewed. So we sent them some 20 images from our Benelux members and we have received 20 images from our Indian counter parts. We will review each other images and compare to our reviews of each image.

Be interesting to see if and if so how the Benelux vv Indian reviews on the same image compare!

Any Indian RPS members on TeamBHP? I might be reviewing your images or vice versa!

Jeroen

Last edited by Jeroen : 6th February 2019 at 19:45.
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Old 6th February 2019, 22:12   #2078
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So am I.

What you think of bokeh is most likely very personal. Some people simply do not like it, some want to see something creamy etc.
It's always personal. However in general while shooting portraiture, fashion photography and even otherwise creamier bokeh is considered more pleasant.
For other scenarios it might matter less but then again it's a matter of personal preference.

Quote:
I have been a member of the Royal Photographic society for about two and a half years. During those years I have been in workshops looking at hundreds and hundreds of photographs of members. Listening to comments and feedback from some outstanding photographers on members work.

I have yet to hear anybody commenting on “limited bokeh”. In fact I have yet to hear comments relating to limitations on equipment. These days we have lots of members using mirrorless systems.
There is plenty of discussion online amongst pros and enthusiasts on the bokeh aspect of different sensors. That, glass size and body weight are always discussed while making a decision on which system is suited best for ones need and preference.
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Old 6th February 2019, 22:16   #2079
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It's always personal. creamier bokeh is considered more pleasant. then again it's a matter of personal preference.
Let’s keep it at personal preference.

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Originally Posted by ashish.uno View Post
There is plenty of discussion online amongst pros and enthusiasts on the bokeh aspect of different sensors. That, glass size and body weight are always discussed while making a decision on which system is suited best for ones need and preference.
Well, I prefer to be in the presence of people talking about their images. The kit being used is rarely part of that discussion. Maybe I hang out with people with a different approach to photography. Each to its own.

Jeroen
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Old 7th February 2019, 01:52   #2080
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Great. Please do record your impressions of the camera here, in case you finally decide to go for it.

I tried the X-T3 with a 56 1.2, 100-400 and the 200 f2 lenses. Here's what I think

Pro's first
Superb ergonomics, button placement and menu system.
AF points across the screen and lots of focus point options
AF performance was great with the 200 F2 (Noticably quicker than 100-400mm)
Joystick was a really nice to use
Build was awesome the size is just right
EVF is clear and bright
Eye cup was nicely designed.
Silver looks really cool Althought I like Fuji's graphite color more (not sure if it is available on X-T3.

Cons:
The camera feels slow when rendering images during playback. They didn't have the fastest sd cards in the store but its just a 26mp image and the it takes 2-3 secs to show.
The AF on 56 1.2 was slow but that's probably just the lens.
Was not a big fan of the color straight out of the camera. (I just took some random shots inside the store so defenitly not my final thoughts)
Didn't like the placement of play button but hoping some other is button can be remapped.
Wish it had IBIS and better battery life. (New battery is aproxx $70 and third party ones are $25)



Overall I think I liked the camera. AF was quick. Dials were a joy to use and changing settings were really easy and natural. It's priced at 1299$ and looks like I can get it a little cheaper on Greentoe and also not pay sales tax. Heart says go for it but mind says think about it more.


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Let’s keep it at personal preference.
Well, I prefer to be in the presence of people talking about their images. The kit being used is rarely part of that discussion. Maybe I hang out with people with a different approach to photography. Each to its own.Jeroen
I guess the purpose of this thread and DSLR thread is to talk about gear and not more about images. I wish more images are shared and discussed on the non-auto and auto image threads.
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Old 7th February 2019, 16:03   #2081
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Well, I prefer to be in the presence of people talking about their images. The kit being used is rarely part of that discussion. Maybe I hang out with people with a different approach to photography. Each to its own.
There is a lot more to getting good images than mere kit. Framing, timing, innate sense of aesthetics, technique etc. but to imply that kit is entirely unimportant and doesn't even merit a discussion is something I disagree with.


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Cons:
The camera feels slow when rendering images during playback. They didn't have the fastest sd cards in the store but its just a 26mp image and the it takes 2-3 secs to show.
The AF on 56 1.2 was slow but that's probably just the lens.
Was not a big fan of the color straight out of the camera. (I just took some random shots inside the store so defenitly not my final thoughts)
Didn't like the placement of play button but hoping some other is button can be remapped.
Wish it had IBIS and better battery life. (New battery is aproxx $70 and third party ones are $25)


Overall I think I liked the camera. AF was quick. Dials were a joy to use and changing settings were really easy and natural. It's priced at 1299$ and looks like I can get it a little cheaper on Greentoe and also not pay sales tax. Heart says go for it but mind says think about it more.
The 56mm f1.2 is indeed slow. Their latest line of f2 (weather resistant) lenses is faster than their f1.2/1.4 (non WR) counterparts.
Colour is something I have no complaints on with Fuji, however I had a mild panic attack when I first tried the camera. The settings were off by a margin! The std/Provia image option renders colors well, at least that's has been my experience.
IBIS and better battery life is a niggle but I took the plunge anyway. AF is indeed quick but dependent upon the lens. You are very thorough with your assessment
These days so many excellent alternatives are available that a dilemma between heart and mind is practically inevitable. I had a similar one between Nikon D750 and Fuji. Any which way one takes, is good. All the best!
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Old 7th February 2019, 16:31   #2082
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There is a lot more to getting good images than mere kit. Framing, timing, innate sense of aesthetics, technique etc. but to imply that kit is entirely unimportant and doesn't even merit a discussion is something I disagree with.
Totally agree with your first point. About discussing kit, there is nothing wrong with it. I do it occasionally too. But the debate about mirrorless versus DSLR has become too theoretical to be of much practical use I find. Whether it is about bokeh or sensor size. These system have come very close in performance in most circumstances, some of what remains is personal preference anyway.

In practice, with a few exceptions these do not present a real life limitations to the vast majority of photographers. Especially when you start considering and adding into the equation how people look at their images. On a phone, ipad, huge screen, paper print small or large.

Providing an image is taken with a good camera, mirrorless or DSLR, full frame whatever, the choice of paper I print on has in most cases considerable more effect on how an image appears than any other (kit) factor (providing you take a technically correct image to start with of course)

How many photographers out there calibrate their monitors. Or have a monitor that allows for sufficient colour spectrum to even review an image, let alone edit.

Whether you spend $1000 on a mirrorless system or $5000 on a full frame DSLR, if you are going to view the images on an iPhone or some clapped out laptop the discussion what, in theory, would be the better system is pretty theoretical at best.

Discussing or singling out one component (e.g. sensor size) within a string of kit and technology that is required to view the end result might not be that useful. Especially as the difference on a component level could be very marginal to start with.

Very often the question that is asked in these discussion is what topics would you like to shoot. I would say more importantly the first thing is how are you going to view your images, screen, what size, what resolution, print, what kind of size, resolution, paper type.

It is a never ending discussion. There are still people out there using analogue film and claiming it is a billion times better than the best digital camera. So lets leave it at that

Week after next I am going on on workshop working with filters. I have a set of filters but I have never done much with them (other than my polarisation filter)

I have come across some people pointing out that filter requirements for mirrorless could be different that for regular DSLRs? Other than potential vignetting due to the difference in lens diameter, I am not sure what difference there could be. Anybody using filters (e.g. ND, graduated filters) in their photography in combination with Mirrorless kit?

Any thoughts on what brand?

Jeroen

Last edited by Jeroen : 7th February 2019 at 16:35.
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Old 8th February 2019, 11:16   #2083
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Very often the question that is asked in these discussion is what topics would you like to shoot. I would say more importantly the first thing is how are you going to view your images, screen, what size, what resolution, print, what kind of size, resolution, paper type.
I disagree with this. Beginners don't know what they want to shoot, and some folks shoot everything. But there are many of us who prefer certain genres. And gear, skill, places, inspiring photographers, how one learns etc. follow from that.

Regarding gear - it is important, especially for certain situations (typically low light or action). Lenses are even more important than bodies since any body launched in the last 6-7 years is good enough. But a camera body is just a tool. It is up to the photographer how to use that tool.
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Old 8th February 2019, 12:50   #2084
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Here is an interesting story about a guy who made the transition from Nikon to Olympus.

He shoots a very wide range of topics. Scroll through and you will see some very attractive photography.

https://www.olympuspassion.com/2019/...matt-horspool/

Enjoy

Jeroen
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Old 10th February 2019, 10:34   #2085
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I agree with Nilanjan. Most people don't know what they want to shoot before buying a camera. Even if they knew the interest may change over time. My advice is always get the best you can afford.

Came across this video comparing and explaining m4/3, APS-C and full frame sensors with similar lens setup's. Might be useful for some.

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