Team-BHP - Mirrorless or EVIL Cameras

AS I research more on my hunt for a new mirrorless camera, I am becoming more confused :)

So, I went back to what I really need.
I need decent image quality, portability.

I don't see myself buying an expensive pro-grade lens. I will probably have a cheap kit lens and a fast prime for indoors/portraits/low light. That's all.

So, now, I have started to look into camera+ lens combination.
I like to shoot at wide angle. So, a decent cheap kit lens which has a wider focal length is preferred.

For Micro 4/3, I am not OK with lens starting from 14 mm (28mm) which is very restricting for landscape/architecture. So, I am looking at lenses starting with 12mm and I came across the Panasonc 12-60 MM lens which should serve 95% of my needs.

The following bundles from panasonic look very good -

1> G85 + 12-60 lens = $700
2> GX9 + 12-60 lens = $800

Anyone has experience with Panasonic cameras?
I did not find olympus bundles starting from 12mm kit lens. There is an old 12-50 lens without IS which I am not keen on. Obviously, I can buy the body and the lens separately but normally that costs more

For APS-C sensors, I would like lenses starting from 15/16mm rather than 18 mm.
So, here are my choices -
3> Fuji XT100 + 15-45 lens = $500
4> Fuji X-T20 + 15-45 lens = $800
5> Fuji Xt20 + 16-50 = $700

6> Sony A6000 + 16-50 = $500
7> Sony A6300 + 16-50 = $800
8> Sony A6400 + 16-50 = $1000

These are my choices up to $1000. I would like to keep it under $800 though.

Personally, I like the design and controls of the Fuji and Olympus cameras.
I am leaning towards option <4> Fuji XT20 + 15-45 lens or Option <2> Panasonic G85 + 12-60 lens
Please recommend.

Quote:

Originally Posted by adimicra (Post 4597440)

So, I went back to what I really need.
I need decent image quality, portability.

I don't see myself buying an expensive pro-grade lens. I will probably have a cheap kit lens and a fast prime for indoors/portraits/low light. That's all.

If thats all you need:

Cheapest and best possible option: Sony A6000 with 16-50 + 35mm 1.8. Extremely portable and 35mm gets you good snaps. If you need better body, Look A6500 (and not A6300) for IBIS. There is nice 10-18 for wide angle if you need. 35mm will cost you around 35-40K.

16-50 is not all that great with image quality in low light. You can look around for better E-Mount lenses.

If you need better bodies yes, Olympus/Fuji may be the way to go.

I use both mirrorless and DSLR. Mostly if its about an informal function at home or a short visit here and there, I end up taking the A6000 with 35mm. Very very compact. Else its always the DSLR for me.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ampere (Post 4597449)

If you need better body, Look A6500 (and not A6300) for IBIS. There is nice 10-18 for wide angle if you need. 35mm will cost you around 35-40K.

It's weird that Sony have sort-of orphaned what was the flagship of the a6nnn range, but they have. In many ways, the a6400 is more advanced, and cheaper, than the a6500. Yes, I bout the a6500, for the IBIS, but if I was just going to use a stabilised kit lens, or an easy-to-hand-hold wider, faster prime, the a6400 would probably have been the better buy.

adimicra, in comparing micro-4/3rds and apsc systems, and thinking about the focal lengths you want to use, have you considered the different crop factors? Compare the FF equivalents. And, if you are not already used to a particular sensor size, you are probably thinking in FF/35mm-film focal lengths, which means the lenses are not going to give you the results you imagine.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom (Post 4597457)

Thats true. They first progressed heavily on APSC and release many models. And then they have been focussing more on the FF and professional end of the market with A7 and A9 series.

Quote:

Originally Posted by adimicra (Post 4597440)

For Micro 4/3, I am not OK with lens starting from 14 mm (28mm) which is very restricting for landscape/architecture. So, I am looking at lenses starting with 12mm and I came across the Panasonc 12-60 MM lens which should serve 95% of my needs.

I agree with your reasoning that 12mm at the low end is a must for m4/3 sensors.

Olympus OM-D E-M10 Mark III - $449

Olympus 12-40mm f/2.8 PRO - $899 (This is an extremely high quality lens)
OR
Olympus 12-200mm f/3.5-6.3 - $899 (Pretty good lens, with very good range)

So the package costs $1348. If this is beyond your budget, forget about Olympus.

Thanks everyone for your inputs. Considering my needs, I have decided to go with the Fuji X-100/X-T20 based on the price/deals along with the 15-45 lens (22.5 to 67.5 mm)

The reasons are as follows -
Fuji probably has the best JPEG quality among all brands and really nice film simulation modes. I don't plan to do RAW shooting. So, in-camera JPEG quality is super important to me. The 24 MP sensor is bigger is size compared to 4/3 and almost same as Fuji top-end cameras.

The slightly retro design of Fuji camera (along with Olympus) is really eye-catching. Also, enough physical buttons for direct controls along with a fully articulating touchscreen is welcome.

The Fuji lens lineup is awesome and probably best among mirrorless systems, particulary for my use case. I will start with the 15-45 lens but there are plenty of fast primes at almost every focal length (12, 16,23,35,50 etc) at reasonable prices. ALso, the general optical quality of Fuji lenses is considered very good

Fuji sensor has a crop factor of 1.5, Canon 1.6 while Olympus/Panasonic has 2. So, it is easier to find lenses with wider angle. Also, Fuji sensors will easily beat the micro 4/3rd in image quality or dynamic range etc

Between the XT-20 and XT-100, the XT-20 has better/faster autofocus, better 4K video. I don't care about the 4K but autofocus is important to me. So, I am trying to understand the difference. So, it will depend on how good a deal I can get on each of these and whether it's worth the difference. Also, I need to go to a store which has some demo units. It is difficult as most camera stores don't have many demo units for mirrorless systems.

Quote:

Originally Posted by adimicra (Post 4596025)

Thanks for the replies.
I am feeling considering my usage Sony 6000/6300 with kit lens should be good enough.
I will go to the store and check the size and handling.

I am open to m4/3 cameras from Olympus and Panasonic but I don't understand the benefit of those over something like a Sony a6000.

On the other hand, if I want something really pocketable, the Sony RX100 makes lot of sense to me.

Another thing I have noticed that sometimes my Google Pixel or Galaxy S10 produce better or more usable shots using the built-in HDR when the background is bright. Does Sony/Olympus or any of these mirrorless cameras have in-built HDR mode and how good are those?

Would like to hear suggestions..

Just read your posts and this was like recap of what I went through.

I bought a Sony APS-C mirrorless and used it for 5 years, the NEX-5. Was a brilliant camera and most of the official reviews from me are using this camera.

Last year I decided to upgrade and the option was Olympus M4/3 or the A6000 or A6300. I was not too keen on Sony as they had the same 16-50mm pancake lens and not a lot of options for good lenses. The lenses are the most important in mirrorless.

I was tempted by the Olympus O-MD E-M10 MK2 or Mk3. I got a great deal in Singapore and picked up the Mk2 with the 14-42mm kit lens. Used the camera at the 2018 Auto Expo and came back disappointed.

What was worse was I sold my old Sony NEX-5 to fellow mod Suhaas307 and he was with me at the Auto expo snapping away pics with better results!!!

Came back and spoke to Samurai who had been using the Olympus for many years and that's when I realised, the Oly is a good camera but you need to work for results. It will not give u desired results in auto mode and JPEG pics. You need to shoot in non intelligent auto modes and shoot RAW to work on pics later.

Also the smaller m4/3 sensor and kit lens really struggles in depth of field photos and overall picture quality is just ok.

So now I resigned to the fact that I will not be able to easily click click as before. Then Samu told me about the 12-40mm PRO lens from Olympus.

Managed to get a good deal on that few months back and the lens has been outstanding. I still need to use aperture or shutter priority but this 12-40mm PRO lens gives some fantastic results!

So net net. Get the A6300 (A6000 is just too old now) if you want really good JPEG pics with minimal effort. This will probably work even better with an upgrade lens though I am not sure which is a good lens to go for in Sony eco-system.

Get the olympus if you want a sexy looking camera with the 12-40mm PRO lens only. Else don't bother. This will set you back 90K. The Olympus will still need some effort from you to get desired results.

I have invested so much in Sony now that... That's it, whether something else is better or not! That's the trap and all manufacturers want us in theirs.

Not that I'm unhappy with it... But I didn't have a clue when I began.

Took my Sony 55-210 kit lens out to a concert at the weekend as I knew I would not be able to sit up close to the stage. Mostly it lives on the shelf, as I have got spoilt by 1.4-2.8 lenses, even classical musicians move enough that I prefer 1/125. Surprised myself by getting some nice pics even at 210mm (f6.5 I think) and 1/50. There was enough light on the stage to keep the ISO ok for the a6500.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vid6639 (Post 4598433)

Just read your posts and this was like recap of what I went through.

Thanks for pitching in with your views.
I have decided to go with the Fuji system after considering various factors which I have listed above. Right now, I am looking for the best deals on the XT100/XT20.

I really liked the straight advice from @Samurai. More than the budget, I am not looking to carry a large/heavy lens. Right now, I have the Tamron 17-50 F2.8 VC lens which is very good but heavy and this has resulted me in using my smartphone more and more. So, the 12-40 from Olympus is ruled out.

I will get the small 15-45 lens from Fuji which has a superb wide angle reach (22.5mm) and would suffice most of my needs. For indoor/low light, I am planning to pickup 23mmF2 which costs $300. Also, there are 35mm F2 and 50mmF2 lenses which can be used for portraits. The Fuji lens collection is really very well thought out and caters to all types of users. On top of that, there are quite a few 3rd party manufacturers who provide Fuji lenses.

And frankly, the Fuji/Olympus cameras really have awesome retro looks which I really love. I will be going to US next month. So, I am still deciding whether to buy in India or US.

Quote:

Originally Posted by adimicra (Post 4598674)

And frankly, the Fuji/Olympus cameras really have awesome retro looks which I really love. I will be going to US next month. So, I am still deciding whether to buy in India or US

Not sure how it compares these days, but in my Indian days the US tended to be considerably cheaper. Also, easier to find proper photography / camera shops that will stock the full range of bodies lenses of different makes.

I found Olympus availability poor, in Delhi at least.

Some legendary camera shops in the US; If you happen to be visiting New York make sure to visit B&H! An unbelievable experience.

Jeroen

Quote:

Originally Posted by adimicra (Post 4598674)

And frankly, the Fuji/Olympus cameras really have awesome retro looks which I really love. I will be going to US next month. So, I am still deciding whether to buy in India or US.

I would say, pick it from the US since you may get a chance to experience the body before you buy. At least for Olympus, the US prices are much lesser than India price.

Also, if possible, try any camera which offers in body image stabilization, before you buy either of your shortlisted Fuji cameras - it really helps during low light photography (if you are into it).

--Anoop