Team-BHP - Mirrorless or EVIL Cameras

Quote:

Originally Posted by Samurai (Post 3015924)

Do you actually have NEX ownership experience? I have 7 years of ownership in 4/3 and 2 years of ownership in m4/3, all in India. Two bodies in each family and 5 + 4 lens in total.

No i haven't owned a NEX ,but i do own the SLT and prior to that i did look at the NEX and M4/3 options both where ruled out due to non availability of the lenses in India at that time,even the OM-D i could only see it in the photo expo in bangalore around 6 months as it was not available in stores to check.

So if you happy with your m4/3 ,so be it.But i am not convinced its a better option in India compared to the more popular NEX which is available in much much more stores.

Quote:

Originally Posted by aim120 (Post 3015952)

So let me tell you as a NEX owner, I am unable to buy a multi purpose zoom anywhere (Flipkart, smartshoppers etc.,) for NEx (18-200), So owning NEX in India also does not have much support. A mount however is commonly available.

Quote:

Originally Posted by joslicx (Post 3015812)

Most of them are optically superior (than your average run of mill Canon/Nikon lenses) + materials used in construction are also better (metal mounts, metal frames etc for Panasonic at least). Sony & Panasonic lenses are also made in Japan (high cost location) while Olympus makes them in Thailand if I remember correctly. Canikon are chinese I think. Panasonic also has OSS in their lenses (as does Sony I think). Panasonic is collaborating with Leica and Sony with Zeiss so maybe they pay these companies royalties for lens knowledge. And the Leica/Zeiss branded leses are really really good.

I do not buy this Optically superior argument, If I compare Canon Kit 18-55 IS run of mill kit lens to my E-PL3 14-42 Kit lens Canon lens seems optically superior to me.

This is based on my own experience with two average kit lenses I own and not any scientific parameters. Though Canon India has raised it's prices unrealistically but if you compare international market some of vastly superior cheap Canon lenses which outperform others are ( in comparable focal length range )

1. Canon 40 F2.8 STM pancake
2. Canon 35 F2
2. Canon 50 F1.8
3. Canon 85 F1.8
4. Canon 100 F2.8 USM

All these are consumer grade and I have excluded premium L variety or super telephotos where Canon has an edge.

Also all of these are made in Japan lenses although I don't care where you manufacture these days because I care more for my pocket rather then jobs in some expensive country.

Quote:

Originally Posted by amitk26 (Post 3016185)

Sure kit lens is a kit lens and they might be similar (though my OM-D came with 12-50 lens (so slightly wider and also it also has a macro function though it is more expensive too at about $300).

My argument was mainly about consumer grade primes (you see canon also has 35mm 1.4 that costs well over 1L). MFT system has quite nice primes like Oly 12mm, 45mm, 75mm and Panasonic 20/25mm ones. Panasonic also has fast zoom lenses (they are costly though). There are also voigtlanders that are quite amazing lenses. All of these have great reviews. Oly also has great 4/3rd lenses that can be used with adaptors. Optically these are at par or in some cases (e.g 75mm) even better than Canikon offerings. What I actually like about the MFT world is how well both Oly and Panasonic compliment each other!!! Combined they offer you choice of excellent lenses for almost all useful lengths. Especially the system has good offerings for the purpose this system is most useful for (street photography and portraits).

I dont know much about Canon lenses but Nikon has the 85mm that we use for portraits normally. It costs 31k. The 45mm Olympus prime cost me 18k in comparison. But I would agree with people here that MFT lenses are costlier than they ought to be.

It'd always be "you win some, you lose some" kind of situation with any system you pick.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tsk1979 (Post 3016093)

The SEL18200 is a video lens primarily launched as a kit lens for the NEX camcorders and most people who own NEX do not buy a 18-200 considering the size and the price.I also believe that sony may discontinue the SEL18200 and replace it with the newly announced 18-200mm power zoom version globally.

The tamron 18200 E mount lens is available in smart shoppers.in and the Sony 18200LE is just a rebadged tamron and this is targeted for Still users.

Many people have complaint to Sony India in their facebook page about the E mount lens availability and Sony has said that they will launch the new lenses,its probably better if you call Smart shoppers (Alpha flagship store) for the SEL18200 since when i asked for a A-mount lens which wasn't listed in their website ,they said they can list the lens which they did ( 55-300 A-mount).Also the smart shoppers where just setting up the store lots of construction noise when i called them.

As far as flipkart they have discontinued all Sony lens .

Samurai,

I have given up long time ago to defend a system :P. I have realized some inhibitions will never go away.

Quote:

Originally Posted by aim120 (Post 3015761)

Well its a bargain compared to a Leica M9 or new M,this has a zeiss lens and is a engineering challenge to try and make it work in a small body.

It's a bargain and feels like one too. I am sure you'd have read how I felt about the handling and material used on the Sony RX1. Basically, it didn't feel like a camera that was worth so much money. Infact, when I saw it in the store, I thought it was a dummy model till I turned it on. Yes, it's an FF camera and all that, but no sir, I'll save that money and buy the Leica Monochrom instead.

I knew of a Leica store in DC, so went there to check their gallery out. The staff there were extremely nice and even let me play around with the Monochrom. And trust me, that's close to the perfect B/W I have seen SOOC. You may think it's snob value, but you can't ignore what this camera can achieve. And yes, it feels like an $8k camera, unlike the RX1. Check this out:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/wnknips...n/photostream/

Now, see the original version and scroll down to see his t-shirt:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/wnknips...n/photostream/

Quote:

Originally Posted by vivekiny2k (Post 3016298)

I have to say, if you discount the 600 price tag, this is really a great news if you read the details.

http://www.engadget.com/2013/01/15/m...F-NEX-adapter/

Thanks Vivek for posting it here. This one has created quite a stir, can't wait to see test shots from it (other than the ones which are available on the review sites).

Quote:

Originally Posted by aim120 (Post 3016343)

I'm confused. I thought that the pz was for camcorders since it is sold as a kit lens with a camcorder!

Quote:

Originally Posted by HellwratH (Post 3016374)

The main advantage of the RX 1 is the size thats what Sony was targeting.The body(minus the lens) is smaller then a X100 (minus the lens).Sony is know for these kind of things from the walkman.Obviously the lens cannot be made compact being a full frame lens.The lens itself will cost quite a lot , Zeiss and Sony have done some remarkable job at engineering that lens with such a short flange distance,you should see the internal teardown pictures.
If they wanted to build it like a tank then it won't be compact anymore but the body is still made of metal, so considering the engineering challenges the build is good .

As per Steve Huff "Small size, great lens, amazing full frame sensor, good auto focus and manual focus, superb HD video and solid build quality that goes toe to toe with Leica.".

Quote:

Originally Posted by tsk1979 (Post 3016433)

I'm confused. I thought that the pz was for camcorders since it is sold as a kit lens with a camcorder!

It is for camcorders the zoom lever is however located on the lens.The SEL18200 is also originally meant for camcorders and is kit lens for NEX VG-XX camcorders.For still use Sony has launched the rebadged tamron 18-200 called SEL18200LE but the tamron own VC is superior to that of the Sony OSS.

Quote:

Originally Posted by aim120 (Post 3016454)

Don't get me wrong, I am a big fan of Sony for creating what they've done. But, the RX1 was a disappointment in handling for me. And yes, I have seen quite a few photographs made with the RX1 (almost every photo out there on FM) and yet I don't see an amazing performing Zeiss lens. Yes, the lens is good, but honestly, they are not as great as the other Zeiss lenses. As far as the price and FF sensor is concerned, wait for a month or two, Samsung has big news waiting for us. I think RX1 prices will start falling after that announcement. The thing that I liked was AF (was accurate even in low light) and the silent shutter. I mean, it was extremely silent.

And I don't have to depend on Steve Huff to say how it feels when I have a choice to hold it myself. And Steve Huff probably is at the same level as Ken Rockwell for me. I used to like him, but not anymore. I prefer the LL and TOP reviews much better.

A lot of interesting discussions happening around the NEX and M Four Thrids. Owning an NEX 6, I should say that it ain't any better that I originally thought about. I was just sold for the size, built in flash and the PASM dial mode. I would have very well picked up the OMD had it had a different look and feel. I did not like the center position of the EVF in the OM-D. Sony does have this design creativity, something in the lines of Apple. I love the NEX's design, dimensions. It is just about the perfect size for a mirror-less. Very comfortable holding one in hand.

But anyways, I've started to save for my next FF camera which at the moment will be the Leica M, after 2 years from now. Until then it will be countless shooting and learning with my NEX 6.

Quote:

Originally Posted by joe1980 (Post 3016497)

You might want to try a film rangefinder like the Canonet QL17 etc to see if you like the RF experience as it's manual focus. It's simple but not everyone likes it and lack of AF is one reason why many people don't buy Leica cameras.

Quote:

Originally Posted by joslicx (Post 3016276)

Sure kit lens is a kit lens and they might be similar (though my OM-D came with 12-50 lens (so slightly wider and also it also has a macro function though it is more expensive too at about $300).

Sure we are discussing if micro 4/3 lenses are necessarily superior to DSLR counterparts or not as you stated. Price is factor of what consumer can pay and what sellers can extort so that is not my main focus.

Coming to 12-50 F3.5 -6.3 is actually a 499$ lens on Amazon, may be this is the best in Oly world but what exactly makes it vastly superior as stated in previous post either in terms of Aperture value or resolution in lines pair per mm or focal length range ?

Comparing to an ordinary 18-55 IS F3.5-5.6 lens costing around 100$ it is just a bit wider.

Quote:

Originally Posted by joslicx (Post 3016276)

My argument was mainly about consumer grade primes (you see canon also has 35mm 1.4 that costs well over 1L).

I quoted only consumer grade primes and excluded L lenses.

Why not consider 35 F2 or 28 F1.8 instead ? Also why are you considering US price for Olympus glass and inflated Indian price in other case ?

In any case my gripe was about Optically superior argument of yours.

In fact for me Micro 4/3 as of now provides limited functionality in absence of good and affordable wide angle and macro.
Olympus 7-14 is whooping 1799$ on so not an option right now for me.

I originally bought micro 4/3 with intention of using my manual 50mm f1.4 and
FD mount Vivitar Series 1 90mm F2.8 macro but never materialized the plan as Canon 100 F2.8 does the duty most of the times.

my most used lenses on DSLR are 10-20 , 30 F 1.4 , 50 F1.4 and 100 F2.8 for me micro 4/3 is good for walk-around usage because no one comes up and asks if I am press photographer lol:

May be if Sony or Canon EOS-M comes up with better native lenses in above range I will jump the ship totally.