[suhaas307]

Originally Posted by Frontosa

So you agree that polo is premium, I'd be highly surprised if anyone says it's not. Buddy why are the other 1.2 liter engines in the comparo? I20, jazz, and so many others are 1.2 or less. 3 pot motor doesn't make the car less punchy. Anyway, it's upto the owners of the thread whether to include or not.

Now just out of curiosity, what are those deal breaking features?

Of course I do! It is a quality product from a premium brand.

But I'd like to correct you here. I believe that it's the other way round. The displacement of the engine isn't the criteria at all. A 4-cylinder motor will inherently be more powerful, more punchy and much, much more refined than a 3-cylinder motor. The displacement (1.2 - 1200 cc) doesn't make much of a difference.

Let me explain.

Dodge used to produce the sports-car, the Viper. It came with a massive 8-liter V10 truck engine. But it isn't as quick off the blocks and isn't as fast in a straight line as, say, a Lamborghini Murcielago LP640, which is powered by a smaller 6 liter engine. The difference is that the Lamborghini is powered by a V12.

Similarly, F1 cars are powered by 700 bhp V8 engines, just like some sports-cars on sale today. The F1 car's engine-displacement, however, is not more than 3 liters (2.4 to be exact), where as, in comparison, Jaguar powers its XK-R sports-car with a 5 liter supercharged V8 that makes 500 horses.

EDIT: The deal breaking features could be mundane things, as mundane as a sunroof or auto-fold mirrors. It's a subjective thing, I suppose.

[nurni76]

Originally Posted by akhilesh

Says who??? You? I am sorry. The newer one does 0-100 kph in somewhere around 14.xx seconds according to some reviews so its not fast as well. Punto 90hp is almost as fast, ride and handles better, costs the same after discounts, has more features and is built better.

The diesel has tough competition while the petrol is beaten hollow by the Honda Jazz.

You can go on every thread that discusses Swift and proclaims its the best hatch around but its not going to help. Its only making you sound like a fanboy.

My saying Swift is the best is not going to make an impact to either MSIL or Fiat. All I am saying is my opinion and I stand by it. Fun to drive is just not about the 0-100. There's a whole lot of other things as well. Have you driven the new swift? I have and also the Punto. I agree Punto is a better handler, but the new swift is no less. It is sporty and ride quality is equally good. The 90HP on Fiat is not giving it a significant advantage. Even the PTW makes a difference. Interior quality of the new swift is way ahead of the Punto (no comparison there).

Even in petrol you say beaten by jazz, in what? Fun to drive - you must be kidding. jazz may be an overall better car but when it comes to fun to drive ANSS is better

And when you make a comment atleast ensure you have Test driven and not just go by the magazine figures.

[RavenAvi]

Guys, guys, guys!

Let's chill and discuss cars and their premium qualities here. We certainly do not want Mods to intervene and bring to a grinding halt a very healthy discussion on the strengths and weaknesses of hatches which we regard as premium in the market today.

Swift may be a fantastic performer but it has it's share of -ves, and even the Jazz with it's awesome space management and the famous Honda badge & i-VTEC engine isn't spared of weaknesses either.
The Punto is a superb car and it's MJD is the national engine of India, but it is severely affected by Fiat's A.S.S and it's FE figures, while the Polo is a wonderful hatch and the best looker among all hatches on Indian roads, but severe lack of features and growly 3-pot mills affect it's no-fuss ownership.

Let's face it, no car is perfect, and all cars have their strengths and weaknesses. Ergo the list in the first post for present/future prospective buyers, to weigh the +ves and the -ves of each car and decide which is the choice for them.

btw, the first post stands edited (thanks a ton, Anshuman buddy!), and now we can have a better idea of the premium hatches and their strong-weak points. Let's leave the decisions to our prospective buyers, and evaluate the cars in question, shall we?

[suhaas307]

Originally Posted by nurni76

My saying Swift is the best is not going to make an impact to either MSIL or Fiat. All I am saying is my opinion and I stand by it. Fun to drive is just not about the 0-100. There's a whole lot of other things as well. Have you driven the new swift? I have and also the Punto. I agree Punto is a better handler, but the new swift is no less. It is sporty and ride quality is equally good. The 90HP on Fiat is not giving it a significant advantage. Even the PTW makes a difference. Interior quality of the new swift is way ahead of the Punto (no comparison there).

Even in petrol you say beaten by jazz, in what? Fun to drive - you must be kidding. jazz may be an overall better car but when it comes to fun to drive ANSS is better

+1

You're quite right there, about many things.

The Swift is the closest thing to a go-kart with seats, that you could buy in India today. It really is a great car to drive. I've driven one extensively and I can vouch for that. It is definitely better than the Jazz when it comes to the fun factor.

But once you up-size the Jazz's skinny 175s, it transforms into such a fun car. The wider contact-patch gives it plenty of grip and you can push it much harder into corners.

The Punto boasts of brilliant dynamics, let down by poor quality and an engine that doesn't live up to expectations. The car's 'box doesn't seem to put down the power well enough.

[test.subrat]

This thread is exactly what i needed. Was thinking of starting a new. But i better piggy ride on this..

I am looking for a Hatchback as a (retirement/birthday) gift to my Dad. This would be his first car (He was in the govt. & well it did have its perk ).

Having poured over countless reviews and discussion forums (phew, that must have been like zillion web pages), have shortlisted two cars- VW Polo & new Honda Jazz.Expected kms logged in would be around 1000-1200/month (mostly in city), and so looking only for petrol variants. i20 is out coz of the niggling issues (Still open to it.Just need to know how big are the issues). Maruti- no one in the family fancies it.

Price list (OTR)1.2L P:
Polo- Trendline-5.14 L/ Comfortline- 5.71L / Highline- 6.78L
Jazz- Base- 6.16 L/ Select- 6.44L/ X- 6.78L

Issues:
Polo- Have read about the lack of rear seat space. Price do not justify the features list (no ABS etc)
Jazz- Drive quality/Handling , Difficult to drive for a beginner (??)

Pointers:
1. My parents stay in Bhubneswar (and hence a combination of pathetic roads to decently good roads)
2. Dad would drive the car (55% of the times). It would be chauffeur driven for my mom
3. Need decent & easy drive-ability. Revs are something which i guess my dad wont be much interested in . FE needs to be good.
4. Money (even if few thousands) is an issue. The lesser the better.
5. Looking for a decent & practical feature list. (ABS is, Bluetooth is not)
6. Overall a peace of mind buy

So the multi-million question: Which Car ???

Pls also suggest which versions of the car should i be going for. And the upgardes i should be going for.

Will the Jazz price cut actually bring down the prices of others? Also are there any tangible/substantial discounts/offers during the Diwali Festival period? And does it make sense to wait now and book the car 1/2 month(s) later

Pls help Urgent replies would be highly appreciated as need to decide on a ASAP types.

PS- Mods if this is in the wrong section (which i guess/hope its not), pls do the needful

[Frontosa]

Originally Posted by test.subrat

This thread is exactly what i needed. Was thinking of starting a new. But i better piggy ride on this..

I am looking for a Hatchback as a (retirement/birthday) gift to my Dad. This would be his first car (He was in the govt. & well it did have its perk ).

Having poured over countless reviews and discussion forums (phew, that must have been like zillion web pages), have shortlisted two cars- VW Polo & new Honda Jazz.Expected kms logged in would be around 1000-1200/month (mostly in city), and so looking only for petrol variants. i20 is out coz of the niggling issues (Still open to it.Just need to know how big are the issues). Maruti- no one in the family fancies it.

Price list (OTR)1.2L P:
Polo- Trendline-5.14 L/ Comfortline- 5.71L / Highline- 6.78L
Jazz- Base- 6.16 L/ Select- 6.44L/ X- 6.78L

Issues:
Polo- Have read about the lack of rear seat space. Price do not justify the features list (no ABS etc)
Jazz- Drive quality/Handling , Difficult to drive for a beginner (??)

Pointers:
1. My parents stay in Bhubneswar (and hence a combination of pathetic roads to decently good roads)
2. Dad would drive the car (55% of the times). It would be chauffeur driven for my mom
3. Need decent & easy drive-ability. Revs are something which i guess my dad wont be much interested in . FE needs to be good.
4. Money (even if few thousands) is an issue. The lesser the better.
5. Looking for a decent & practical feature list. (ABS is, Bluetooth is not)
6. Overall a peace of mind buy

So the multi-million question: Which Car ???

Pls also suggest which versions of the car should i be going for. And the upgardes i should be going for.

Will the Jazz price cut actually bring down the prices of others? Also are there any tangible/substantial discounts/offers during the Diwali Festival period? And does it make sense to wait now and book the car 1/2 month(s) later

Pls help Urgent replies would be highly appreciated as need to decide on a ASAP types.

PS- Mods if this is in the wrong section (which i guess/hope its not), pls do the needful

If roads are bad then the Polo will withstand more abuse for years. It also has better ground clearance and so will not scrape bottom as much as a jazz. But apart from this point for any elderly person needing a car from various perpectives like easy to get in and out, more space, someone who is not going to race or chauffeur driven and of course peace of mind with Honda service, (not sure of vw service quality in your city) then Jazz is better buy. Had it been for yourself I'd have recommended Polo for sure.

[mdsaab]

Test.Subrat
The ride quality of the jazz maybe not as great as the Polo but it is decent enough. And should be able to tackle the rough stuff as well.
When you or your dad take a test drive be sure to take it over the rough stuff including big speed breakers, potholes, and deep craters.
This will give you a good idea of how much the jazz can take and whether it will suit your rough stuff requirements.
Do the same for the Polo to give you an idea of its capabilities too.
Regarding ease of driving.
The Jazz with its extremely light controls. Will be a breeze to drive. And you will be very comfortable with it right from the beginning.
Honda service should be another plus point.
Ask around to see the dealership satisfaction experience in your area.
I would highly recommend the jazz.
Its quite easily the best premium hatch in the market.
And since your dad is not interested in taking the new car to the limits you need not look further than the Jazz.
Also a point to consider is that your mom will be chauffeur driven and would be seated at the back.
Another area where the Jazz excels. Its extremely spacious at the rear and is ANHC rivalling where space is concered. Also the fact that the rear seat reclines is an added benefit.
Bootspace wise the jazz has a good size boot.
The engine is super silky smooth and decently punchy.
Good FE is another plus point too.

Regarding which variant. I always recommend going for the top model. That way you have no regrets.
And since the price difference between the Jazz variants is not high it would be easier to go in for the top model. Thats the Jazz X.
Else you could settle for the Jazz Select.
This depends on your budget and what you are willing to spend.
Hope this helps.
And Good Luck!

[akhilesh]

Originally Posted by nurni76

My saying Swift is the best is not going to make an impact to either MSIL or Fiat. All I am saying is my opinion and I stand by it. Fun to drive is just not about the 0-100. There's a whole lot of other things as well.

The new Swift is slower but it is still fun to drive because fun is more than 0-100 but when Punto is slower its no good because the engine isn't fun. Did I hear hypocrite?

Originally Posted by nurni76

Have you driven the new swift? I have and also the Punto. I agree Punto is a better handler, but the new swift is no less. It is sporty and ride quality is equally good. The 90HP on Fiat is not giving it a significant advantage. Even the PTW makes a difference. Interior quality of the new swift is way ahead of the Punto (no comparison there).

You must joking right. The ride quality on the new Swift isnt even as good as the Jazz let alone Punto which is the benchmark in its segment.
Well the 90 bhp Fiat is almost as fast because it heavier, is built better and won't start rattling in few thousand kms.

Originally Posted by nurni76

Even in petrol you say beaten by jazz, in what? Fun to drive - you must be kidding. jazz may be an overall better car but when it comes to fun to drive ANSS is better

And when you make a comment atleast ensure you have Test driven and not just go by the magazine figures.

I am sorry but I never found the Swift to be as fun as everyone proclaims it to be. The suspension on the original Swift is pathetic. The point is that everyone car make a car handle by giving it rock hard suspension but a few can strike a compromise between ride and handling both.

There is just no comparison between petrol Swift and Jazz and I have already stated the reasons before. Jazz is clearly a segment higher.

[iliketurtles]

Originally Posted by test.subrat

Having poured over countless reviews and discussion forums (phew, that must have been like zillion web pages), have shortlisted two cars- VW Polo & new Honda Jazz.Expected kms logged in would be around 1000-1200/month (mostly in city), and so looking only for petrol variants. i20 is out coz of the niggling issues (Still open to it.Just need to know how big are the issues). Maruti- no one in the family fancies it.

Price list (OTR)1.2L P:
Polo- Trendline-5.14 L/ Comfortline- 5.71L / Highline- 6.78L
Jazz- Base- 6.16 L/ Select- 6.44L/ X- 6.78L

Issues:
Polo- Have read about the lack of rear seat space. Price do not justify the features list (no ABS etc)
Jazz- Drive quality/Handling , Difficult to drive for a beginner (??)

Pointers:
1. My parents stay in Bhubneswar (and hence a combination of pathetic roads to decently good roads)
2. Dad would drive the car (55% of the times). It would be chauffeur driven for my mom
3. Need decent & easy drive-ability. Revs are something which i guess my dad wont be much interested in . FE needs to be good.
4. Money (even if few thousands) is an issue. The lesser the better.
5. Looking for a decent & practical feature list. (ABS is, Bluetooth is not)
6. Overall a peace of mind buy

So the multi-million question: Which Car ???

Pls also suggest which versions of the car should i be going for. And the upgardes i should be going for.

Will the Jazz price cut actually bring down the prices of others? Also are there any tangible/substantial discounts/offers during the Diwali Festival period? And does it make sense to wait now and book the car 1/2 month(s) later

Pls help Urgent replies would be highly appreciated as need to decide on a ASAP types.

PS- Mods if this is in the wrong section (which i guess/hope its not), pls do the needful

Between those two, I'd go for the Jazz any day of the week. I'm looking at the Select version, and it ticks all your boxes except for one; money. All my friends tell me that Honda spare parts are pricey. Maybe they are, but the Jazz is still a terrific buy. But given Honda's reliability, peace of mind and top notch customer service (again, friend's accounts), I'd say the Jazz is a safe bet.

I dropped the Polo from my own shopping list on account of the rear space. It's nowhere near as good as I might like it to be, so that will really make itself felt if/when you're driven around.

Why don't you consider the Swift Petrol? No idea about the FE, but again, it offers complete peace of mind; Maruti's ***, cheap spares, terrific resale value, reasonable running costs and fantastic driveability. Only negative is the massive waiting period

Yes, there could be several offers coming up near Diwali, so if you do want to wait, it might be a good idea. Then again, if it's only the Jazz you want don't wait...there are no discounts or offers of any sort on it, save some that say a corporate discount is available. For what it's worth, I'm not waiting, simply trying to haggle my way into getting some sort of freebies with the Jazz. Will let you know if I have any luck!

[vb-saan]

Originally Posted by test.subrat

I am looking for a Hatchback as a (retirement/birthday) gift to my Dad. This would be his first car (He was in the govt. & well it did have its perk ).

Without a doubt, go for the Jazz. Even the base version will do as it comes with all the required safety features. It will be quite an easy-to-drive car for your dad, and have sedan-like space.

Just as a reference, checkout this thread from fellow bhp-ian Sidindica – Review of his parent’s Jazz
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/long-t...rspective.html

[TheARUN]

The Overdrive show on CNBC today had a premium hatch-back shoot-out that was held in Chirapunjee! The SWIFT won it

[fiat_tarun]

^^ These OD shootouts are quite skewed if you ask me. They take top models of some cars, lowest variants of the others and do a comparison. The Polo was in its 1.6 avatar, the Figo petrol in its base variant, the Punto in its 1.2 basic version, no Jazz & the Fabia, i20 & Swift in their top variants.

Comparisons should be equal and not how they want to compare the cars.

Although since they compared the petrols, the Swift is the clear winner with that brilliant 1.2, barring the Jazz which is a better overall package.

[suhaas307]

Originally Posted by TheARUN

The Overdrive show on CNBC today had a premium hatch-back shoot-out that was held in Chirapunjee! The SWIFT won it

Originally Posted by fiat_tarun

^^ These OD shootouts are quite skewed if you ask me. They take top models of some cars, lowest variants of the others and do a comparison. The Polo was in its 1.6 avatar, the Figo petrol in its base variant, the Punto in its 1.2 basic version, no Jazz & the Fabia, i20 & Swift in their top variants.

Comparisons should be equal and not how they want to compare the cars.

Although since they compared the petrols, the Swift is the clear winner with that brilliant 1.2, barring the Jazz which is a better overall package.

There was a premium petrol-hatch shootout and it did not feature a Jazz? What exactly is OD smoking these days? How can the self-proclaimed 'India's Best automobile magazine' leave out the Honda Jazz from a petrol-hatch comparison? This is akin to comparing the most sought-after luxury cars without including the Mercedes S-Class.

[nurni76]

Originally Posted by akhilesh

The new Swift is slower but it is still fun to drive because fun is more than 0-100 but when Punto is slower its no good because the engine isn't fun. Did I hear hypocrite?

Please read my post again. I said 0-100 alone is not a measure of fun to drive. Punto may be as fast as the swift, but I feel it sluggish at city speeds where one never gets to do a 0-100 dash

Originally Posted by akhilesh

You must joking right. The ride quality on the new Swift isnt even as good as the Jazz let alone Punto which is the benchmark in its segment.Well the 90 bhp Fiat is almost as fast because it heavier, is built better and won't start rattling in few thousand kms.

I am sorry you must be joking about ride of jazz ride being better than ANSS. Lets wait about rattles on the new swift. Comparison is with the new swift and not the older one. Please take a TD and comment and not fire in the dark

Originally Posted by akhilesh

I am sorry but I never found the Swift to be as fun as everyone proclaims it to be. The suspension on the original Swift is pathetic. The point is that everyone car make a car handle by giving it rock hard suspension but a few can strike a compromise between ride and handling both.

There is just no comparison between petrol Swift and Jazz and I have already stated the reasons before. Jazz is clearly a segment higher.

Jazz may be a segment higher than Swift purely interms of interior space, but clearly by dropping prices by 1.5L it can no more be considered in a different segment. If you still feel so, great you have your views and So do I.

[aseems]

Will the Jazz price cut actually bring down the prices of others? Also are there any tangible/substantial discounts/offers during the Diwali Festival period? And does it make sense to wait now and book the car 1/2 month(s) later

Please check with the Honda dealer if the Jazz version is available. I visited Honda showroom here in Mumbai and was shocked to hear that the production of the base version is yet to start. Another showroom said the production will start only in February 2012.