[CrAzY dRiVeR]

Originally Posted by Vid6639

someone like me would pick the Elite i20 10 times out of 10. I wouldn't mind the 120 litre loss in boot space.

Isn't it interesting?

On one hand- we have people like you and me who would pick the Elite i20 over Xcent any day, if these two were the only choice.

There are people like him who would pick the Xcent over i20 for practicality of the added boot.

There are people like my parents who would pick the Xcent over i20 for the prestige and ironically- style!

Only the sales threads for 5-6 months can reveal who the real winner is! Real battle will be fought between Xcent / i20 and the Grand will mostly be spared from the rivalry IMO.

[ampere]

Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR

Only the sales threads for 5-6 months can reveal who the real winner is! Real battle will be fought between Xcent and i20 and the Grand will mostly be spared from the rivalry IMO.

It does not matter. As long as Hyundai can confuse the buyer enough to let him remain within the realms of Hyundai! Its a good confusion to create for Hyundai!

[s_pphilip]

Originally Posted by ampere

If you need the power for the highway, no questions asked. Take the I20 diesel. If you are looking at petrols, then your confusion starts.

For that I think many have already answered:

- If you need the boot: No brainer.
- Between i10 and i20: Thats the confusing part. (And frankly I dont have answer! It goes with your budget and comfort)

Precisely said. My pick of the 3 will be i20 diesel.
Reason better tuned for low & high rev's, beautifully crafted quality interiors, 'for a Hyundai' sorted ride/handling and no nonsense ownership.

I'd restrict my choices between either hatch as I do not fancy Xcent with the add on boot much (though among these sub 4 meter sedans, Xcent seems the most accomplished, but my personal opinion is they all seem compromised except when boot is useful).

So petrol it is the Grand as i20 will be overwhelmingly under powered and diesel, well the stats speak themselves.

However let me be quick to add, leaving aside those 3 pot motors, I find Polo equally or more tempting, one of the few cars I turn around for a second glance.

[CrAzY dRiVeR]

Originally Posted by s_pphilip

but my personal opinion is they all seem compromised except when boot is useful).

I'm not trying to defend Xcent here, but comparing Xcent to Grand i10, what is compromised?

Why what would a reason to choose the Grand i10 over Xcent, other than price?

PS- Dont take it than I am defending Xcent, I have no difficulty accepting that I would own neither - not the Grand i10 nor Xcent for my personal use. Both are not fun to drive IMO, even the Elite i20 for that matter.

[s_pphilip]

Originally Posted by s_pphilip

I do not fancy Xcent with the add on boot much (though among these sub 4 meter sedans, Xcent seems the most accomplished, but my personal opinion is they all seem compromised except when boot is useful).

However let me be quick to add, leaving aside those 3 pot motors, I find Polo equally or more tempting, one of the few cars I turn around for a second glance.

Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR

I'm not trying to defend Xcent here, but comparing Xcent to Grand i10, what is compromised?

Why what would a reason to choose the Grand i10 over Xcent, other than price?

PS- Dont take it than I am defending Xcent, I have no difficulty accepting that I would own neither - not the Grand i10 nor Xcent for my personal use. Both are not fun to drive IMO, even the Elite i20 for that matter.

Oh apologies "Crazy Driver", even I didn't mean to offend anyone that's is why I added it is just my personal opinion and I did add that this product is competent, its just I somehow don't like the way the boot is integrated to the Grand or Swift, which is the compromise I am referring to, that is in terms of looks. For me the Grand looks much better.
For someone who does not really need a boot, what makes the Xcent better than Grand, of course I know there is a marginal increase in FE, but that apart, what else I mean mechanically, at least Grand looks better.

I know the market economics demand such a product and these cars fulfill the needs of thousands out here and for their makers are brilliantly designed products for the masses, also that for marginal price increase offer greater value than hatchbacks and maybe in future I'd change my outlook towards them but for now with all politeness and humility, I'd prefer a sedan or a hatch, in fact as an example between Polo and Vento, I like the Vento, that is how much I am biased towards well designed sedans, and exactly why I am not in favor of this sub 4 meter attempt either, just doesn't fit in my picture of a sedan, at least for now.

This feeling is also due to my cousins Amaze, which though looks okay, this attempt from Honda is pathetic, this car should have had some premiumness to justify 7L, I agree Hyundai's attempt is way better and it is foolish to compare both, but it will take me some time to accept this segment, just my personal opinion with all due respect.

[CrAzY dRiVeR]

Originally Posted by s_pphilip

Oh apologies "Crazy Driver"

Originally Posted by s_pphilip

just my personal opinion with all due respect.

None taken. You are entitled to have your own view on the topic. I am just asking bit more explanation, thats all.

Originally Posted by s_pphilip

I somehow don't like the way the boot is integrated to the Grand or Swift, which is the compromise I am referring to, that is in terms of looks. For me the Grand looks much better.

Originally Posted by s_pphilip

I'd prefer a sedan or a hatch, in fact as an example between Polo and Vento, I like the Vento, that is how much I am biased towards well designed sedans, and exactly why I am not in favor of this sub 4 meter attempt either, just doesn't fit in my picture of a sedan, at least for now.

Now - Lets put both together. The so called compromised sedan and the proper sedan.



Where have the proportions gone wrong here, in the case of Xcent? I believe the boot design is as conventional as it gets, dare i say it- the C pillar flows down similarly in both cars, if you discount for the slightly higher roofline of the Xcent.

And sure its got a stubby boot, but isn't the bonnet stubby as well - keeping both ends proportionate?

So, what exactly has gone wrong in Grand i10 -> Xcent conversion when compared to Polo -> Vento conversion?


PS - Although I have qouted the above post, anyone can participate. Think of it as a design study. (Or you can take it as my open invitation to get myself beaten up! )

[torque!!]

@ iamendangered, I could not help but notice that you have mentioned 4 Speed Automatic for both Petrol and Diesel in i10 Grand. You have also quoted a price for the Diesel automatic. I did not find a reference to a Diesel Auto on Hyundai's site. Where did you get this info from? Is a i10 diesel auto in the making?

[S2!!!]

If the car will be used primarily for highway runs, the diesel Elite i20 is a no-brainer. It wins hands down due to its torquey + fuel efficient motor and spacious enough boot.

However, when it comes to petrol, I would still choose the Grand i10 over the other 2 as a city commuter. While the concept of a sub 4m car with the practicality of a boot seems really good on paper, these tiny little sedans don't seem to quite hit the desirability quotient in my eyes. Period. That aside, the same 1.2L petrol engine in the Elite i20 feels anaemic and you need to work the motor to extract acceptable performance. Yes, it feels plush and spacious but it is the puny motor which is the only fly in the ointment for the Elite i20.

The Grand i10 is nimble, small yet adequately spacious and well equipped too (fancy gizmos aside like wheel alignment reminder, auto headlamps, etc). In a cost conscious market like ours it is substantially cheaper than its sedan sibling and the Elite i20; also, for our ever crowded city streets its dimensions are just right.

[vinjosep]

Any prospective customer who walks into a Hyundai showroom today will be a confused soul if he/ she meets any or some of the following:

1) Has a budget between 6-9 lakhs
2) Not sure of their requirements from a new car (e.g. good highway manners, needs to seat 5 etc)
3) Not sure if they want a sedan/ hatchback (#2 really)
4) Not sure if they want a diesel or petrol (again #2 mentioned above)
5) Not particular about ABS/ airbags (especially front passenger)
6) Not an enthusiast, like T-bhpians, hence not really bothered about the "connected" drive etc. (Fortunately all the cars from HMIL behave the same here.)

IMO majority of the Indian market meets the above and that is where Hyundai has positioned themselves well. Based on the potential client's budget the sales personnel have a product that won't disappoint. Goes with the current theme wherein you keep the client within the family.

My personal choice was and is the i20 CRDI. Obviously we had vivid answers to all those points I mentioned above.

Hyundai should have retained the EU-spec headlamp unit. It just adds so much aura to the car. If they wanted to keep prices in check, they could have at least given it as an optional accessory.

[arunphilip]

Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR

So, what exactly has gone wrong in Grand i10 -> Xcent conversion when compared to Polo -> Vento conversion?

Nice question and comparison.

In my opinion, I believe that since the Grand i10 has tallboy DNA, it has resulted in the higher roofline. This results in a larger height-to-length ratio which does not feel as sleek and proportionate.

This effect is accentuated by the stubby bonnet and boot which both enhance the impression of height.

On the other hand, the Polo is a hatch that you sit "down" in, and hence the height-to-length ratio is smaller, giving it a sleeker look.

[harry10]

If I have to pick a hatchback it will be diesel i20. First choice will be Polo but then it's a VW. For a mid size sedan I will pick Zest as it appeals to me as a package. Xcent will be my second choice. I have driven my cousin's grand i10 and I wasn't impressed at all so that won't be in consideration.

I must commend Hyundai for providing so many options under one roof that a customer who walks in will surely buy one of them.

[s_pphilip]

Originally Posted by vinjosep

Any prospective customer who walks into a Hyundai showroom today will be a confused soul if he/ she meets any or some of the following:
Based on the potential client's budget the sales personnel have a product that won't disappoint. Goes with the current theme wherein you keep the client within the family.

True. Ain't that a good thing for them, the sales guys happy folks cos they have a product to promote to every prospect and Hyundai whichever way it goes, laughing to the banks.

Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR

None taken. You are entitled to have your own view on the topic. I am just asking bit more explanation, thats all.

Thanks Crazy Driver, totally agreed, valid healthy discussion.
I shall put a feeble attempt across, I tried my hand at Photoshop to prove a point and the result was disastrous, I realized I might by murdered here for being so cruel, so I'll try to convey it in words.

Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR

Now - Lets put both together. The so called compromised sedan and the proper sedan.

Where have the proportions gone wrong here, ..... if you discount for the slightly higher roofline of the Xcent.
And sure its got a stubby boot, but isn't the bonnet stubby as well - keeping both ends proportionate?
So, what exactly has gone wrong in Grand i10 -> Xcent conversion when compared to Polo -> Vento conversion?

What is wrong is the 4m constraint. One has it, the other does not.

What I haven't clearly conveyed earlier is rather than the Manufacturer and the car to blame, it is the Indian laws and mentality to blame, which is why we have these attempts.

Do not take me wrong, if you work on the design in any image editor and stretch the Xcent and reduce the height, it looks pretty sporty from the side profile. Of course it does not turn perfect but makes it presentable.
While the Grand looks good in profile, pleasing for a youthful hatch, the Xcent feels neither here nor there, but yes immensely scores on practicality.

Let me explain further, please do not take the following offensively.
Imagine the Punto (not because you own it, but because it is a damn beautiful car), or for that matter the elite i20, add a similar half - boot to the car (not like the linea which is longish, but something like making a Punto based half-sedan inside 4m or 4.2mts), you'd get the point, those proportions somehow do not fit in your imagination of how the Punto should look when you add a boot, aah, it should always be a Linea, chop of the boot and it is distasteful, that is what I attempted by pasting the Xcent boot onto the Punto and I deleted it as I didn't want to be so cruel even if it was in photoshop.

If I ask you to draw a sedan, what will it turn out to be, I think something like the Vento isn't it, for me too, it will turn out something like the Jetta or Octy or e36 or W124, of course not discounting many other beautiful designs but they all will more or less have similar proportions mixed with similar angles and curves in similar areas.
No pealed head lights, or oversize chrome grills, or absent bumpers, or raised height, or compressed length.

To clarify, what ever I say above does not take due credit away from the Xcent, I repeat what I said earlier, it is a mighty accomplished car and if my cousin was in the market now, this is the car I would suggest in 7L as against the Amaze, only because he wanted a sedan in that price. I first suggested hatchbacks (diesel Fabia, lots of discounts too) but he wasn't interested.
Since this has come up, let me agree to disagree with many here, the Amaze is a joke from Honda, yes reliable, stress free, smooth but over relying on good engines in a car which is a half hearted attempt, Honda was over optimistic or over confident or took Indians for granted.
Looking at it the other way, it is cars like Xcent that makes me feel how bad the Amaze is, I was not so critical of it till I checked the Xcent, maybe its my mind playing tricks and in defense I just find some low point to be critical about this entire segment, as I said earlier some where down the line I may warm up to this segment.
Sorry for the longish reply, I am being brutally candid about my confusions.

Originally Posted by S2!!!

While the concept of a sub 4m car with the practicality of a boot seems really good on paper, these tiny little sedans don't seem to quite hit the desirability quotient in my eyes. Period.

The Grand i10 is nimble, ..... are just right.

Me too, 'parot' that.

Originally Posted by arunphilip

Nice question and comparison.

In my opinion, .... which does not feel as sleek and proportionate.

On the other hand, ....., giving it a sleeker look.

Similar to my line of thought, thanks for putting it across so clearly, 'S2' and 'ArunPhilip'.

[CrAzY dRiVeR]

Originally Posted by arunphilip

This results in a larger height-to-length ratio which does not feel as sleek and proportionate.

Originally Posted by s_pphilip

Thanks Crazy Driver, totally agreed, valid healthy discussion.
I shall put a feeble attempt across, I tried my hand at Photoshop to prove a point and the result was disastrous, I realized I might by murdered here for being so cruel, so I'll try to convey it in words.

What is wrong is the 4m constraint. One has it, the other does not.

...

Similar to my line of thought, thanks for putting it across so clearly, 'S2' and 'ArunPhilip'.

Thanks guys! Appreciate your thoughts.

Would have liked to bring a few more contenders here (The latest hit Zest for example stands 60mm taller than Xcent) to make things a bit more interesting, but that would be way OT for this thread. Will try to see if it makes sense in some other relevant thread.

[motorlover]

I own a petrol xcent sx(o) and I love it. Not sure what fun to drive means? I enjoy my drive and it is definitely fun to drive. Many of the decisions are probably taken based on practicality. I live in goa where petrol rates are at par with diesel. I can't go beyond 100kms/hr even in our so called highways except may be the airport road. Grand i10 and xcent are similar except for the boot. I was in favor of xcent as I take short weekends trip outside the city and the boot is a blessing. I don't need to stuff my luggage on passenger seats.Parking has never been an issue compared to a larger sedan.

[iamendangered]

Originally Posted by torque!!

@ iamendangered, I could not help but notice that you have mentioned 4 Speed Automatic for both Petrol and Diesel in i10 Grand. You have also quoted a price for the Diesel automatic. I did not find a reference to a Diesel Auto on Hyundai's site. Where did you get this info from? Is a i10 diesel auto in the making?

Hello

While making the charts I referred the official brochure which mentions the 4 speed auto for both petrol & diesel, or at least that is what I interpreted from how they wrote it (please see pic attached)

And for pricing I used carwale.com & I believe it was there when I made the comparison chart, even though I cannot find the diesel automatic anymore , for which I apologize if its is misleading in any manner. I am confused myself as to where I got that figure from.

I looked into it, and carwale.com suggests that hyundai has discontinued the i10 grand AT, however I am not too sure of it.
There are a few articles on this website about the grand i10 AT, for reference

1 - http://www.team-bhp.com/news/hyundai...ard-i10-diesel

2 - http://www.team-bhp.com/news/rumour-...omatic-gearbox

3 - http://www.team-bhp.com/news/hyundai...h-5th-december

4 - Carwale page suggesting that it has been discontinued
http://www.carwale.com/hyundai-cars/grandi10dieselat/