[Intrnl_Cmbstn]

The topic of this thread was exactly what I went through a month and a half ago. Now I am a proud owner of Elite i20 Sportz petrol variant. Why I chose the i20:
I was in the market to buy a premium petrol hatch a couple of months ago. I had checked out the i20 and was eagerly waiting for the launch of the Jazz. When it launched, I took multiple test drives of both the cars, and also back to back. I was looking at the i20 Sportz and the Jazz SV.

• Firstly about the test drives. I drove the i20 on the Eastern Freeway in Mumbai and took the car to its limits. Initially I felt the car was extremely underpowered but later when I started noticing the speedo I realised I was doing speed much higher than what I was feeling inside the cabin. That made me realise how well made this car is. Minimal NHV even when being pushed hard. Very smooth engine. Decent ride quality. Minimum noise seeping in the cabin from outside. I did not find much problem in the handling department too as I own an Ertiga which automatically became my comparison point. The i20 trumps Ertiga, which is relatively a very tall car, in handling department. I could not drive the Jazz in similar conditions (drove it on the Wadala truck terminal road in Mumbai) but I there was a feeling of little more responsiveness to right foot inputs, though not very significant. Handling was neutral again, like in the i20.
• Next, about the interiors. The i20 felt very premium from the inside. Very high quality interiors in terms of design, lighting, materials used, features provided and build qulity (- in most places). Compared to the i20, the interiors of Jazz felt kind of cheap. I personally did not like the piano black, fingerprint magnet panel on the dash. The i20 has a far better looking dash. It looks fantastic, especially when lit up in the night. The manual AC control knobs looked horrendous in the Jazz. They were large and ugly rotary knobs which seemed a decade old in terms of their design. The i20 had great quality ACC buttons which felt nice to operate. The gear knob on the Jazz was ugly and felt cheap to hold. The i20 had a chunky gear shifting knob which felt great to hold. The Jazz had a decent steering wheel (its probably a direct lift from the City. Wish they had lifted more parts from the City bin rather than turning towards Brio/Amaze/Mobilio bin for some parts). But the i20 trumped the Jazz in this too. Though the Jazz’s steering felt equally good to hold but the i20’s wheel looked much better and had much better quality switchgear – both steering mounted buttons and the stalks behind. The i20 also had a driver’s armrest, which is not as comfortable to use as I initially thought, but is still useful to some extent. Basically, the Jazz doesn’t even come close to the i20 in this segment. The i20 makes you feel great inside its cabin and there’s a ‘premium’ feel to everything about. In fact even after a month of getting this car, I still look forward to the times when I get to be in the i20’s cabin. I certainly wouldn’t have felt the same in the Jazz. In fact when I first bought the Ertiga I used to feel it has really nice looking interiors, especially when compared to some more expensive cars like, say, a Duster or a Terrano. But after spending time in the i20 the Ertiga interiors have now started to feel cheap, which they probably are but I hadn’t spent lengthy times in other more expensive cars to get that feeling until now.
• Now about the features. As I wasn't looking at the top variants anyway, the famed Jazz magic seats weren't for me. Other than that the Jazz offered humungous space, much more than the i20. As I already own an Ertiga, space wasn’t a priority for me as I could use the Ertiga whenever I am in the lookout for space. The only feature which the Jazz offered which i20 did not was the passenger airbag. As this car was more of city runabout, the extra airbag mattered little. On the highways, I would be driving the car alone, or the chauffer would drive with my dad at the back seat, hence the missing airbag on the i20, though a serious omission, was not a bother for me. The i20 on the other hand had several handy features like the dynamic reverse parking sensors (both cars had cameras but Jazz missed out on the sensors), Bluetooth audio streaming in the music system (the Jazz has the Bluetooth connectivity only for calling function, not for audio streaming. TBH I have faced a lot of trouble with aux cables all my life. Bluetooth audio streaming is God sent for me), automatic climate control (have found it to be pretty useful until now), power folding ORVMs, auto dimming IRVM and a few others features. Again, the i20 wins hands down.
• Lastly it is worthy to mention about the ‘feel good factors’. The steering wheel and the gear knob are the two things a driver holds the most. These two combined are totally in a different league in the i20. The top end of gear shift knob in the Jazz is very similar to (or probably even the same as) the one in the Brio. And it feels too cheap to look at and feels very bad to hold. Especially once you have used the gear shifter in i20, which is good to look at (more so in Asta) and amazing to hold. Secondly the steering wheel - though the one in Jazz isn't bad (its probably a direct lift from the City. Wish they had lifted more parts from the City bin rather than turning towards Brio/Amaze/Mobilio for some), the one in i20 is again much better. The one in i20 looks much better (premium) than the Jazz. The steering mounted audio controls are of a much better quality. The stalks for wiper and lights also felt far more premium. I asked the Honda sales rep to show me the key of the Jazz. I had specifically noticed the key of the i20 and had loved how foldable key looks and feels. The key of the Honda Jazz was not a foldable one but a standard one. Again it clearly showed the difference in class. The Jazz SV comes with a manual AC as compared to the automatic climate control on the i20 Sportz. Though both cars are striking to look at, in my family’s general opinion, the i20 looked better than the Jazz in this battle of the beauties. Lastly, the feature where the i20’s ORVMs automatically fold when the car is locked. All these above listed points and features, though not essential in a car, are more of ‘feel good factors’. It attracts you to the car and it feels great to have them in your own car. The i20 had already won the battle in my (and my family’s minds) in the previous rounds itself, but these feel good factors in the i20 served as the nail downs.

All the arguments listed above made me take the decision of buying the i20 over the Jazz. These are all my personal observations, feelings and opinions based on TDs (and ownership of the i20). Other’s have full right to feel differently, no offence to anybody. Using the word ‘premium’ or ‘cheap’ above was mostly relative to the other car.

It’s not like the i20 is without any issues though. The front passenger seat is too low to sit and if even if an average sized person will keep his/her feet flat on the floor, he/she would get pathetic under thigh support. Legs can be kept stretched out in the footwell though but it would definitely not be comfortable over long drives. Another issue that I have faced is that the horn goes off while unlocking the car (two honks) and locking the car (single honk) instead of the soft beeps of Marutis or silent locking-unlocking of Skodas/Volkswagens and some others. What is worse, you cannot even disable this honking (did not find it in the manual, though will pester the service advisor to get this done during the first service). It would be nice of someone can suggest a workaround for this. The lack of instantaneous/average FE display is also a strange omission in a car in this segment.

[thehighwayman]

Originally Posted by Intrnl_Cmbstn

The lack of instantaneous/average FE display is also a strange omission in a car in this segment.

Guess the only reason why Hyundai would leave out this feature from their other wise perfect premium hatch is fact that it has no confidence in its engines and does not want to shock its customers with abysmal FE numbers.

[vishnurajanme]

Originally Posted by thehighwayman

Guess the only reason why Hyundai would leave out this feature from their other wise perfect premium hatch is fact that it has no confidence in its engines and does not want to shock its customers with abysmal FE numbers.

I own an i20 sportz(O)
I am attaching a pic here in the tripmeter can be seen to be displaying the KMS run after a Rs.2000 diesel fill (after the yellow light glow) in mixed riding conditions. She consistently gives me around 20kpl and please note, am not a sedate driver.

On the other hand, my cousin own an IdTEC city which gives around 18kpl. Yes, he is not a sedate driver too.

It depends on how one person is driving the car. I think, for sedate driving, the honda will amuse you with heavy mileage figures, and you will abuse the Hyundai for it's lame mileage. The main culprit is the WGT in the Hyundai as opposed with the VGT in the honda. Of course the aluminium engine in the honda delivers around 2-3mileage figures more too.

But take them to the limits and you will find the honda is not so revv happy as the Hyundai. I dont know the reason, but after driving I seriously felt so. The mileage drops bigtime in the honda this time. Both will have almost same mileage (maybe the Hyundai gives a bit more mileage this time).

Yes, the IdTEC engine from the honda stable is the only one made in reinforced aluminium compared with the cast iron engines from all other car makers.

The IdTEC: High on vibrations as diesel burns at a very high pressure inside the aluminium and being the light weight engine here, it make much more noise and vibrations. But, delivers much more fuel efficiency as light weight rotors rotates with ease.

The CRDI: Cast iron engine, no vibrations mostly, not so fuel efficient. There is one more bashing to be done. The turbo used in the elite is a WGT rather than the VGT in honda cars which in turn reduces the fuel efficiency further in stop and go traffic.

NVH, refinement & reliability: crdi
Fuel efficiency: IdTEC



All may have seen, I have told CRDI or any other cast iron engines have more reliability than aluminium engines. Before arguing, just one point.

For household use, we use steel/iron knifes. None have seen a knife made of aluminium. If you had used a steel vessel for years, still it would be in the same shape, but an aluminium pot will definitely would have come across some shape changes for sure. Also aluminium is much more low cost metal than steel


Old generation decade old bullets used cast iron engines. You can still find them in street at about 10 times their original cost. Say 2 lakhs for a 1948 bullet. But most of the aluminium engineered bikes are with dead engines as for now. We cant generally find a 1948 model "other bike"now. Forgive me, am not going off topic. Just for the ease of understanding.

Maybe honda has found a way of using aluminium without decay just like the yamaha r15 use reinforced aluminium pistons, yet years must pass by to know the reliability of the same. But i20's CRDI or the fiat MJD is a proven engine. I have never come across a dead CRDI as for now.

[adimicra]

What about drive ability particularly in the city at lower rpms and turbo lag?

[IshaanIan]

Originally Posted by adimicra

What about drive ability particularly in the city at lower rpms and turbo lag?

The Hyundai motor is not as drive-able at low rpms when compared to the Honda diesel, however any keen driver will be able to keep the engine happy choosing the right gears and when you do that, the sheer refinement levels and higher-revving nature, more than make up for turbo lag BTW I am a huge Honda fan and more so I hate Hyundais but it isn't difficult for me to admit that their diesel motors are certainly among the best

[vishnurajanme]

Originally Posted by adimicra

What about drive ability particularly in the city at lower rpms and turbo lag?

Of course if you try to drive the car below 1800 rpm, it drives like a Chevorlet spark 1000cc petrol car. Of course I mean it. My dad has a Chevorlet spark 2008 model (he is going to exchange it with a jazz petrol btb) and I get the same feel of driving that car when I drive the elite at low rpms. Yes, perfectly drivable but not in the league of the honda. Honda's VGT comes to the rescue here and pulls straight ahead of the Hyundai in the sub 1.8k rpm territory. Hyundai still uses a WGT.

But, once you cross the 1.8k rpm mark, it is pure bliss. And it is so easy to keep her in the turbo reign. Diesel drivers will understand this fact. Actually the maruthi swift turbo spools much later around 2.5k rpm compared with the elite. But still there are lots of Swift's around and no one complaints about the driveability. Same is the case here. Thanks to the rev happy CRDI here.


But the fact is, I never drive my cars below 1.8k rpm. I guess, same is the case with other diesel drivers too.

~1k is the idle rpm. So how can we drive a car below 1.8k rpm when she can go all the way upto 5.5k without losing breath?
Quite possible in bumper to bumper traffic, but for me it is out of question. I live in kerala and mostly drive in highways and citys with moderate traffic. If I was in bangalore, I may have felt idiotic by taking the elite. There is a chance, but a chance I have never come across with.

Yeah there is enough torque for that CRDI without the turbo spool too. There is no need of using the accelerator at 1st 2nd and 3rd gears. It drives on its own.

I guess admicra had this thought being the owner of the petrol jazz. Yeah, petrol jazz is cool. And according to me, perfect for a practical person. But the diesel sucks in terms of refinement, rev happiness and NVH. Fuel efficiency is much better for sedate drivers but I cant stop myself from saying, the diesel elite is much drivable on par or better than the jazz

[adimicra]

^^
What you say about the I20 diesel is similar to the Honda Jazz petrol engine I drive. It's slow below 1800-2000 rpm, particularly in 3rd gear and above. But once above 2000 rpm, it's as if the engine wakes up and acceleration becomes very strong, above 3000 rpm it gives the feeling of a different engine altogether and it revs happily to the redline of around 7000 rpm.
Now, I don't drive normally below 2000 rpm. So, it's not a problem for me and I am very happy with the engine. But some people have problems with that because their driving style is different and they might not want to change that.
Same applies for I20 diesel when compared with the IDtec. Some people will enjoy the seemless drive-ability of the IDTEC at lower rpms. That's all I am trying to say.Haven't we heard many people in this forum complaint about the IVTEC in Jazz because of low end response or the lack of it.

When I drove the I20 diesel previous version, there were 3 things which bothered me - turbo lag, light steering without any feel and long clutch travel. I am not sure about the new gen. The refinement of the CRDI engines from Hyundai is unmatched and segment benchmark.

Originally Posted by IshaanIan

The Hyundai motor is not as drive-able at low rpms when compared to the Honda diesel, however any keen driver will be able to keep the engine happy choosing the right gears and when you do that, the sheer refinement levels and higher-revving nature, more than make up for turbo lag BTW I am a huge Honda fan and more so I hate Hyundais but it isn't difficult for me to admit that their diesel motors are certainly among the best

Yes, the CRDi engine from Hyundai may be segment best according to many but not all. If that was the case, nobody would have bought the Honda Jazz diesel. For some people, the superior driveability and mileage of the IDTEC might be more important than the refinement and rev-happiness of the CRDI.As the old saying goes to each his own.

[Mortis]

Guys, I guess this is the best place to ask. My in-laws were looking for a new hatch and as the car enthusiast of the family its down to me to choose. Its either between the Jazz 'S' for 7.3 lakhs and the i20 Elite sportz for 7.71.

PETROL only as their running is low, less than 10k a year, 99% city driving

It will be driver by a chauffeur pretty much all the time

Which of these would give them the best value in the trim mentioned above ? Note that its their only car, back seat comfort and ride quality is important.
Since none of them drive, the engine and handling etc arent important but I guess it would be good to know which of the 2 1.2L petrol engines would run better and give them better FE in the city.

Also, cost of ownership and maintenance. While figures arent available yet for the Jazz since its a new car, generally speaking how is Honda vs Hyundai (Elite i20) wrt to servicing et al ?

I myself am totally confused. I would have gone for the i20 Diesel but since the options are petrol and chauffeur driven so I thought Id ask TBHP for its opinion

[Wildy]

Originally Posted by Mortis

Guys, I guess this is the best place to ask. My in-laws were looking for a new hatch and as the car enthusiast of the family its down to me to choose. Its either between the Jazz 'S' for 7.3 lakhs and the i20 Elite sportz for 7.71.

PETROL only as their running is low, less than 10k a year, 99% city driving

It will be driver by a chauffeur pretty much all the time

Which of these would give them the best value in the trim mentioned above ? Note that its their only car, back seat comfort and ride quality is important.
Since none of them drive, the engine and handling etc arent important but I guess it would be good to know which of the 2 1.2L petrol engines would run better and give them better FE in the city.

Also, cost of ownership and maintenance. While figures arent available yet for the Jazz since its a new car, generally speaking how is Honda vs Hyundai (Elite i20) wrt to servicing et al ?

I myself am totally confused. I would have gone for the i20 Diesel but since the options are petrol and chauffeur driven so I thought Id ask TBHP for its opinion

If it's petrol, Honda Jazz will be the best option which will give you a good mileage. Moreover, it has good comfort in the back seats too. BTW, SV MT version would be more value for the money, as it comes with 2 Airbags, ABS and few other goodies. Honda is known for their reliable service.

[IshaanIan]

Originally Posted by adimicra

Same applies for I20 diesel when compared with the IDtec. Some people will enjoy the seemless drive-ability of the IDTEC at lower rpms. That's all I am trying to say.Haven't we heard many people in this forum complaint about the IVTEC in Jazz because of low end response or the lack of it.

Yes, the CRDi engine from Hyundai may be segment best according to many but not all. If that was the case, nobody would have bought the Honda Jazz diesel. For some people, the superior driveability and mileage of the IDTEC might be more important than the refinement and rev-happiness of the CRDI.As the old saying goes to each his own.

You cannot possibly be comparing a vtec to a hyundai crdi just because people complain about weak low-end response Anyway, ofcourse the IDTEC would not have sold if it wasn't a good engine but city drive-ability aside, it really doesn't have much to be considered one of the best diesel engines especially when coupled with the facts that it hates to be revved and feels like a generation older than the rest in terms of refinement. Sure loads of people may prefer the car that is easier to drive in traffic jams but there is no way anyone is going to "enjoy" it

[adimicra]

. I only said that the Jazz petrol is similar to the CRDI of the I20 in the sense that it lacks low end response . Is that wrong? Guess you found something very funny there. Anyways, looks like you are reading stuff which I am not writing

All I said that the IDtec has it's plusses as well ..So some people can prefer it over the CRDI depending upon their preferences and I know some people who have done that and bought Jazz diesel. I am never claiming the IDTec to be the best.

Now, your definition or my definition of enjoying the drive is not the same as others. Right? While I love the Ivtec, I know some people dislike it because of the lack o low end response.For rev heads who get thrill of revving up the engine a lot , the meaning of enjoyment is different. For a normal person who wants ease of driving the sense of enjoyment is different.. doesn't make him less of an enthusiast.It is not right to impose one's defintion over everyone else. Anyways, peace out!

[Mortis]

Wildy : Thanks for the suggestion. But nfortunately I only have to choose between those two petrol variants.

I would still like 2nd, 3rd and 4th opinions !

[adg_andy]

You may have a look at Figo aspire. Bigger car, with a boot and excellent driving dynamics. Suggest you take a TD with the people in the rear seat . All the best

[adimicra]

Originally Posted by Mortis

Wildy : Thanks for the suggestion. But nfortunately I only have to choose between those two petrol variants.

Hey, may be I have misunderstood something. But since you are willing to consider the Elite I20 sportz, why not consider the Jazz SV? Jazz SV is just 5-10K costlier than the I20 Sportz and comes with proper safety features along with a host of other useful features which makes it relatively VFM.

Originally Posted by adg_andy

You may have a look at Figo aspire. Bigger car, with a boot and excellent driving dynamics. Suggest you take a TD with the people in the rear seat . All the best

Sorry, but Aspire is NOT a bigger car than I20 or Jazz. It has the same external dimensions but the shape is different. In fact, the Jazz is more spacious than the Aspire and even the boot space in Jazz is almost the same as Aspire.

For someone considering petrol cars in this price range, the Aspire loses out as the Ford 1.2 petrol engine is clearly weaker compared to the competition.
If it's diesel, the Aspire makes a strong case for itself with its punchy diesel engine which probably is the best in the segment. If someone is considering the top end diesel variants of Jazz or I20, the Aspire Titanium+ diesel is a good option considering the punchy diesel and additional safety of 6 airbags. It loses out on some creature comforts though.

[CrAzY dRiVeR]

Originally Posted by adimicra

Sorry, but Aspire is NOT a bigger car than I20 or Jazz. It has the same external dimensions but the shape is different. In fact, the Jazz is more spacious than the Aspire and even the boot space in Jazz is almost the same as Aspire.

+1.

Jazz is truly a masterpiece in packaging from Honda and there is so much of space inside. Personally I haven't experienced the backseat ride comfort but the space on offer seems really good and it matters for a chauffeur driven car. Engines don't matter here since they have a paid driver anyways.

But there is a catch. Spent 50k more than the Jazz SV (7.20 v/s 6.66 I think), and you get the Aspire Titanium plus variant which has 6 airbags. That's the only car on offer currently (other than the Micra Safety Pack IIRC) which offers rear passenger protection. The Jazz SV would provide airbags only for the driver.

Space - Jazz.
Safety- Aspire. (At a small premium)

@Mortis: If it's just the two of them all the time, I would pick the latter for the airbags rather than the unused space on offer in the former. Afterall, if you (the car enthusiast of the family as you have mentioned) don't push for active safety features, then who will!