[jeet8686]

Originally Posted by vishnurajanme

Finally found out why the Elite i20 is more comfortable for rear side passengers than the jazz. (Inspite of all those legroom that the jazz provides)

Measurements
Jazz seat width: 49cms
Elite i20 seat width: 51 cms

Will post photos for proof shortly. Presently using mobile net.

Thanks Vishnu for the measurements!

Both cars should be having sufficient seat width for seating 3, however, I believe shoulder room(seat back rest) and under thigh support are more important than the seat bench width for comfort.

Can you please confirm if these measurements are for rear bench or the shoulder room.



Thanks

[vishnurajanme]

Nah, when we carry 3 "Adults" at the rear, jazz is a bit cramped. Thats what I meant. Actually 3 adults are compromising a lot when they sit at the i20. When it is in the jazz, they adjust 2cm more.
The measurements were made on the seating portion of the rear seat. Portion where guys sit. From one edge to another.

Regarding under thigh support, i20 offers 19+ and jazz, 18.5 almost. By 19+ I mean, a little more than 19 because the i20 seats have some curves, contours and all. Like some sports car seats. So I cannot measure correctly. Still however I measure, it provides 19+. Jazz is like a good sofa. Plain mostly. I own the V. It is not having magic seats. Here I am telling everything about the V variant alone.

Regarding shoulder room, it is 47-48 for the jazz and 50.5 for the i20.
Why it is 47-48?
In the jazz, the seats are positioned a bit behind the door opening. So, shoulder room is between those pillars. At the starting point, the width between the pillars is 47 and towards the doors, the pillar cladding is tapered around to give upto 48 shoulder room.
In the i20, the seats are positioned just behind the door gap and the shoulder room is between the doors only. I20 gives a healthy 50.5 measurement.


Please note, all the measurement may have a 10% tolerance factor as all of them was measured by an electronics engineer, not at automobile engineer. :P

For quick reading:
Rear seat bench width of jazz is 2cms less than i20
Rear shoulder room of jazz is 2.5 to 3.5 cms less than i20
Rear under thigh support of the jazz is .5 cms less than the i20

[adimicra]

Okay Vishnu, I take your word that I20 has a couple fo cms shoulder width more than the Jazz (and may be even the City or the Verna) but if you measure legroom, headroom and boot space, the Jazz will be ahead by not just a few cms.

Anyways, sticking with numbers, I would like to post some hard numbers from Autocar test drive.
First the performance numbers -
both the Jazz petrol and Diesel are quite a bit faster than the I20. Even the Jazz CVT is faster to the ton than the I20 petrol with manual transmission.



Now, coming to the mileage, here also the Jazz trumps the I20.


So, basically both in terms of performance and mileage, the Jazz trumps the I20 convincingly. Yes, the Jazz diesel loses in terms of NVH but the petrol doesn't have any such problems.

And I could not find the in-gear acceleration numbers. If someone else finds those, please do post.

Cheers!

[vishnurajanme]

From the autocar review: "Yes, it's down on space and versatility to the Jazz but it's still good enough on both counts. Of course, that's assuming you don't have the Great Khali to transport everyday or routinely use your car as a cargo van. The i20 is also not as good to drive as the Jazz, but here too, it doesn't trail by much. Where the i20 noses ahead of the Jazz is in the feel-good factor, and that's really the clincher here. Whether it's for theg general high levels of refinement or the tastefully done (and well-executed) cabin, the i20 gives you the feeling of being in an expensive car. Mind you, variant-for-variant, the i20 is actually the more affordable car here.*The Jazz, for all its virtues, simply doesn't feel as special. And this is why the i20 is still our top pick if you're in the market for a premium diesel hatchback.


For those who dint understand the autocar verdict by a single read, some key points to be noted.

1. On interior space (boot, legroom, headroom & magic seats), jazz beats the i20 by a little margin. But does it matter to everyone? 99.99% of car buyers will find the boot, leg room & headroom of the i20 excellent. Its only those 8 footers who may feel the legroom is not adequate or his head may bruise against the roof. But for common people who carries 3 people at the rear, i20 is the only car in the market they can choose. I have posted interior measurements earlier. Please read.

For 8 footers & up who carries only 2 passengers in the rear: Jazz
For all other people who costitute 99.99% of the car buyers, the i20 is the better pick.


2. Jazz vx can be used as a cargo van.
Still, applicable to maximum 1% of the people who gets the car. Still, I dont think those who bought a premium hatchback will be ready to use their car as a cargo van. This is the sole reason why I bought the jazz V and not the VX

3. i20 is not as good to drive as the jazz. But still by a very minimal margin. They shivery steering feel of the i20 is gone and the ride has a soft suspention ( comparing with jazz) so at high speeds of 120+, jazz will be comfortable but anything below that, i20 wins hands down. Again 99% of the people drive at sane speeds and so i20 guys wont complain about this fact. As admicra listed, during drag races, jazz may win, but again less that 1% of the car buyers will go for drag races and all. If i need a high performance car, I have better options. I will buy the polo or the punto evo abarth. Both jazz and elite are not valid contentors.

4. Where the i20 noses ahead of the Jazz is in the feel-good factor, and that's really the clincher here.

Feel good factor means, there is no evidence of cost cutting anywhere. As per their ad, uncompromise. It really looks and feels like a premium hatchback. Sttarting from the bonnet open knob, wheel arches, claddings, engine cover, gear knob, plastics, seat fabric, panel gaps, each and everywhere i20 screams quality. There is not even 1 area where we can say against it.

5. Whether it's for the general high levels of refinement
It is not high levels... Extra higher levels. I would dare to say, our diesel i20 is silent at idle speeds than our petrol jazz. :O

6. or the tastefully done (and well-executed) cabin

Seats, dash, switch gear, each and everywhere i20 is a winner. But personally I like the steering wheel and instrument cluster of the jazz even though the steering wheel of the i20 feels nicer to hold.

7. the i20 gives you the feeling of being in an expensive car.

Its like buying a scoda or an audi. Scoda is good, but audi is better and feels expensive :P yes, honda brand value is better, but if you compare these 2 cars back to back without the emblems, you will find that the finishing levels of the i20 is x times better than the jazz. With both the cars in the porch, even my mom complaints about things. I20 has a 2 step door, jazz' door is like a maruthi 800 one. Open and close. But no feel. Seat fabric? Yucky! Wheels in the i20? OMG. Alloys? Ooh! Lala. Why does the glovebox hanging lose? Why it is not having the feel of our i20? Why are these screws exposed? I havent seen such loose screw heads on the i20. No arm rest? Is it a vga camera used at the back? Why is it flickering at night? Why not sharp like our i20? When the cooler fan operates when the vehicle is idle, the entire electrical system voltage goes down for a second. Battery low? No rear vents? Where is the start/stop? Gosh, the rear is so cramped. Etc etc etc.

No complaints on the i20 ever! Period!

8. Mind you, variant-for-variant, the i20 is actually the more affordable car here.

Even after multiple price hikes, this point is still valid. Jazz did some silent price hikes too. Search to understand

9. The Jazz, for all its virtues, simply doesn't feel as special. And this is why the i20 is still our top pick if you're in the market for a premium diesel hatchback.*


For autocar and team bhp, i20 diesel is a better car. After thorough back to back checking i too felt the same.

Now some ratings
Space: tie (read the reason above)
For a normal family with guys less than 7 feet & regular 3 seaters at the rear, i20 is confier btb.

Power:
Jazz D 8/10
I20 7/10

Fuel efficiency (see previous post)
Jazz D 10/10
I20 8/10

Ride
Mixed bag, i20 is comfier at city speeds, jazz for highways. So tie

Refinement
I20 10/10
Jazz 6/10

Sheet metal/plastics
I20 10/10
Jazz 8/10

Feel good parameter
I20 10/10
Jazz 8/10

Goodies
I20 10/10
Jazz 9/10


Total
Jazz 49
I20 55

This is for diesels alone. Hope the point is clear now!


For petrols

Power:
Jazz D 9/10
I20 7/10

Fuel efficiency (see previous post)
Jazz D 10/10
I20 7/10

Ride
Mixed bag, i20 is comfier at city speeds, jazz for highways. So tie

Refinement
I20 9/10
Jazz 10/10

Sheet metal/plastics
I20 10/10
Jazz 8/10

Feel good parameter
I20 10/10
Jazz 8/10

Goodies
I20 10/10
Jazz 9/10


Total
Jazz 54
I20 53

Yes, i20 fails for a minimal margin. Thats why when i needed a petrol car, i bought the jazz

[searacer932]

Well, I don't think the comparison would show the right results unless it'a a petrol vs petrol comparison and a diesel vs diesel comparison. That's what is going to give the right results.

IMHO, the I20 triumphs the Jazz when it comes to diesel and the Jazz triumphs the I20 when it comes to Petrol.

So, CRDi wins against the iDTEC and iVTEC wins against the Kappa.

[Flanker99]

Was wondering, shouldn't the variants (for Jazz as well as the i20 Elite) be taken into consideration as well while comparing the comfort levels?

I haven't sat in the rear seat of Jazz V (ordinary bench). But it could be that their comfort level (under thigh support etc.) might be different as compared to the rear seat in the VX (Magic seats). I do recall reading in the reviews such differences being pointed out (among Jazz variants).

[vishnurajanme]

I compared jazz V with elite i20 sports(O)

Both are of the same price range, even though the elite is a tad cheaper.

[sou_3749]

Couldn't resist but to share my thoughts on the topic. First of all I voted for Jazz. I don't own either of them, but driven them during the process of finalizing my new ride.

What we wish in a premium hatch : Space and usability of Jazz + Interior quality and finish of elite + driving dynamics(includes engine) and A$$ of swift.

But, what we get instead is 3 cars which caters to different individuals depending upon their priorities.

Not going through the +ves and -ves of each, but quickly pointing out the reason behind my vote.

- Space management
- Better driving dynamics
- Engine(petrol hands down) but diesel is not bad either.
- FE (crucial even if we consider premium)
- Looks wise both have their design philosophy right. I personally like Jazz.

But, the mass market will always tilt towards looks(features included) and I20 will always be sold in greater numbers than Jazz.

On a side note, pull Grand I10 into the equation, I will vote for the later. Quality and gizmos at par with I20 but comes at a much laser price tag. Personally I liked the driving dynamics of Grand I10 better than EliteI20.
But, that's just me

[vishnurajanme]

Originally Posted by sou_3749

What we wish in a premium hatch : Space and usability of Jazz + Interior quality and finish of elite + driving dynamics+engine and ass of swift

In the space reign, jazz does not win hands down.
Even though honda has marketed the jazz as a humongous space monster, in reality jazz leads ahead of the elite in leg room and boot space alone. The elite does not lag behind much in the leg room and boot space either. Everyone knows, elite is the car that offers maximum leg room and boot space in this category after the jazz.

Now where the elite leads ahead of the jazz is in the practicality department where most Indians have to carry 3 persons at the rear bench.

Refer to my older post in this same thread to find the inner cabin dimensions. Elite offers a much wider cabin, much better shoulder room and better under thigh support. In fact much more of these things than even the honda city and the hyundai verna too. So for practical indians, even in the space department, elite is the better bang for the buck. Indians who use the extra bit of leg room and the magic seats wont come to about 1% of the car buyers.

[adimicra]

Hey Vishnu,

I know you love the I20
So, what you say effectively is that the I20 has the best space on offer practically speaking for all cars up to C+ segment cars like City and Verna.So, that 1 inch more of shoulder width (as per your measurement) is all that matters. And while you say that the the 4-5 inch additional legroom and 70-80 litres of boot space is only a marginal lead ('not much') for the Jazz , the 1 inch of additional shoulder room for I20 (as per your measurement) is 'much better'
And you also certify that 99% of car buyers do not need additional leg space than what the I20 offers.

[lazy]

Originally Posted by adimicra

Hey Vishnu,

I know you love the I20
So, what you say effectively is that the I20 has the best space on offer practically speaking for all cars up to C+ segment cars like City and Verna.So, that 1 inch more of shoulder width (as per your measurement) is all that matters. And while you say that the the 4-5 inch additional legroom and 70-80 litres of boot space is only a marginal lead ('not much') for the Jazz , the 1 inch of additional shoulder room for I20 (as per your measurement) is 'much better'
And you also certify that 99% of car buyers do not need additional leg space than what the I20 offers.

Well said Adi

If the new Jazz is built similar to the one I have, I can vouch for its quality vs. the older tinbox i20.
The interior plastics, seat fabric, cushions, steering etc still feel new. Cannot say the same about the 3 i20s in my friends circle of similar age.
Not even talking about how typical Hyundai cars age in looks externally since looks is subjective (except Getz, which still looks super).

Anyway, any comparisons on the servicing costs?
Since Dec-2010, my 6 monthly servicing has been between Rs. 2400-2800. What about i20?

cheers
lazy

[adimicra]

^
Hi Lazy, there is no doubt that Hyundai has improved a lot over the years.
But still the Jazz beats the I20 in terms of space and practicality, performance, driving dynamics and FE whereas the I20 has more features and subjectively better interiors.

I feel both cars are good and they will take market share from other cars and also the compact sedans (not sure if Honda is too keen on selling many Jazz's though).

You raise a very valid point regarding ageing and long term maintenance.
I have owned a Hyundai and Honda both and my experience with Honda has been so much better. My car has done 58K kms in 5+ years and it still rocks and can give new cars a run for their money. Also, the average service costs for 1 year comes to around 6-8K for me ( 2 services) which is very reasonable. On the other hand, Hyundai cars tend to age faster, the FE starts dropping and the service costs go up considerably after 3-4 years. This is purely from my experience and whatever information I have gathered speaking to friends/colleagues/neighbours.
May be Hyundai has improved in that aspect as well but not sure.

[vishnurajanme]

Originally Posted by adimicra

So, that 1 inch more of shoulder width (as per your measurement) is all that matters. And while you say that the the 4-5 inch additional legroom and 70-80 litres of boot space is only a marginal lead ('not much') for the Jazz , the 1 inch of additional shoulder room for I20 (as per your measurement) is 'much better'
And you also certify that 99% of car buyers do not need additional leg space than what the I20 offers.

Exactly! you just read my mind
1. The additional shoulder room, hip room and under thigh support is "ESSENTIAL" for an indian family like mine who always trips with 5 persons inside the car. I guess most small families travel like this. At least in kerala, they do so. Means, most of the time, we make "UTILIZATION" of the extra rear inner dimensions of the i20. This is why my family uses i20 as a family car and the jazz by my dad for his office commute.

2. The additional leg room and knee room in the jazz is good, but most of the people do not make utilization of that. Means, for me, and my dad who are around 6ft tall does not feel any difficulties sitting back to back in the i20. The extra boot space is good too. But for 99% of the running time, we "HARDLY" make utilization of that facility.

So which feature is good?

The wider cabin which people utilize all the time, or the extra legroom/boot which is only meant for a narrow stream of people among the car buyers?

My conclusion is, for the mass market, the wider cabin is the best bang!

Originally Posted by lazy

If the new Jazz is built similar to the one I have, I can vouch for its quality vs. the older tinbox i20.

Anyway, any comparisons on the servicing costs?
Since Dec-2010, my 6 monthly servicing has been between Rs. 2400-2800. What about i20?

1. I own the new jazz and the new i20. After comparing back to back, I can just tell these hard words!

I can vouch for the quality of the elite i20 compared with the tin-box jazz
Yes, I mean it. Definitely the older jazz was miles ahead of the older i20 in every possible department (Even in the pricing department). But the new jazz cant even touch the tail of the i20 when it comes to the tin finishing quality, cabin quality and paint quality. (I like the front seats though). The plastics are yucky and the door is just like a maruthi 800 door. So filmsy.


2. Regarding the servicing charges, I guess, you know the fact that i20 comes with a 1 year service interval and the jazz comes with a 6 month service interval.

Total Maintenance Cost for Honda Jazz in 5 years: 39,757
Total Maintenance Cost for Hyundai Elite i20 in 6 years: 17,173
Courtesy: Cardekho website

[Vid6639]

Originally Posted by vishnurajanme

Measurements
Jazz seat width: 49cms
Elite i20 seat width: 51 cms

Will post photos for proof shortly. Presently using mobile net.

Is this cms or inches? When you seat width is it the width of the base from door to door or the back to front as in under thigh?

49 inches looks right but not cms for sure if it is left to right i.e. door to door.

Originally Posted by adimicra

So, basically both in terms of performance and mileage, the Jazz trumps the I20 convincingly. Yes, the Jazz diesel loses in terms of NVH but the petrol doesn't have any such problems.

And I could not find the in-gear acceleration numbers. If someone else finds those, please do post.

I don't think there was any denying that the Jazz is quicker than the i20. 0-100 numbers are proof of that but they are also academic for an owner. I doubt anyone will do a full blown launch by dumping the clutch at a high rpm then followed by banging it into each gear barely lifting off the gas.

What's more important is real world feel and in gear acceleration. If you see our review, the Jazz diesel is definitely more driveable than the i20 but lacks the punchy feel of the i20 on the open roads. In the City the Jazz feels better as you can potter in any gear.

Incase of petrol, it's sort of reverse. The i20 feels peppier at low rpm's and is more driveable in the city. The Jazz is just too frustrating in the city as the power band is way too high up in the rev range and you need to keep it in a lower gear and downshift to close any gaps. Out on the highway both are equally lacklustre but the Honda does a little better as you can keep it in a lower gear and higher rpm. The i20 is not that revv happy.

Numbers may say something else but driving in cities like bangalore don't need a car that can go quicker in 0-100.

[adimicra]

Well Vid -
In Jazz, there is some slight delay in throttle response at low rpms (<2000 ) which makes it feel somewhat lethargic.
But all the new 1.2 petrol engines with variable valve timing are pretty weak in low end response. The I20 is also bad and so is the Jazz (Swift is slightly better) I20 may have a slight advantage also due to shorter gearing. But at least in Jazz, if you downshift properly, you can hit the sweet spot and rev it hard to get very good acceleration. The I20 engine is not at all rev happy and doesn't like to be revved hard. So, there is no sweet spot to speak of.

It's just not about 0-100.
For I20, 20-80 in 3rd gear takes 16.5 secs
For the older Jazz, the same takes 14.3 secs (I could not find the data for the new Jazz but should be very similar given same engine, gearbox etc).

Source: Autocar.