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30th January 2017, 12:39 | #16 | |||||
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| re: In a strange quandary: S-Cross Zeta 1.3 vs Polo GT TSI Quote:
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Kindly share if you have any information on a Polo GT TSI update, be it the engine or in any other way. I have heard it too, but no definitive information. Quote:
Well, 3 of these 12 cars were bought before there was any ministry, let alone finance. One of those 3 was a Toyota Celica. So, not all sins, you see. Our son driving a Camry has to do with him being a grad student in US, and getting an excellent deal on campus on that used Camry in great shape from somebody who had to move abroad quickly. In three years he has owned the car, he did not have to do anything for the car (except oil/filter and such things) which has proved rock solid through thick and thin. In 2015 summer when we were together in Spain, and we rented a Mini Cooper Countryman and we both drove around in the Pyrenees mountains. So, not so bad parenting either, what do you say? Thanks again for your refreshing post. Quote:
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Apparently the VW Kolkata ASS is not that bad, judging by reports from people I know. People from Kolkata can opine. Dealer experience for me has always been quite good. The SAs do not talk nonsense. I visited them 4 years ago too, when I got the Honda City. I have so far been a bit allergic to compact sedans, hence did not have a good look at any. Okay, let me have a look at the Zest. I know Tata is coming around. I am completely disenchanted by that 1.2 iVTEC of Jazz. I test-drove it with a lot of enthusiasm years ago, I don't think I want one. S-Cross has made an impression on me which no other car has done, this time around. If it had the 1.5 iVTEC engine or something better in petrol (something like the 1.4 boosterjet), I would have been owning one right now. I have never owned a diesel vehicle, and our driving also does not require us to have a diesel car. The Polo GT TSI is petrol, reasonably small, and is automatic - and it drives far better than most hatches I know, being well aware of its softish suspension and light steering. Hence the quandary. Last edited by asitkde : 30th January 2017 at 12:47. | |||||
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30th January 2017, 13:09 | #17 | ||
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| Re: In a strange quandary: S-Cross Zeta 1.3 vs Polo GT TSI Quote:
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30th January 2017, 13:13 | #18 | |||
Team-BHP Support | Re: In a strange quandary: S-Cross Zeta 1.3 vs Polo GT TSI Quote:
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From what I remember of Kolkata, the traffic is particularly brutal. Hence, your first choice should be an AT and there is no better than the Polo's 1.2L turbo petrol & fast 7-speed DSG. It'll meet your build, safety & dynamic requirements too. On the flip side - and there is just one with the Polo - its long term reliability won't be hassle free. I can assure you that DSG gearbox will let you down one day (if not two). If you are okay with that and get an extended warranty to cover the failure (but not the inconvenience), go for the Polo. If the DSG scares you too much, choose the S-Cross. In 1.6L guise, it's a beast. You MUST extend your budget a bit and go for the 1.6 diesel. That is the engine that really makes the S-Cross and frankly, it's more European in its behaviour than Japanese. Go on, live a little . What do we work so hard for? The main problem with the S-Cross for you will be the MT (in daily traffic) and turbo lag. In the end, it all comes down to how much you value long-term reliability. If you are okay with a compromise, there's no doubt that the Polo GT TSI is better suited to your purpose. Because you already have a reliable Honda in the house as a backup, this is the one I'd recommend for your daily commute. Quote:
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30th January 2017, 13:41 | #19 | |
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| Re: In a strange quandary: S-Cross Zeta 1.3 vs. Polo GT TSI Quote:
Since I am from Kolkata, I can understand the road conditions that you are talking about. I am in Pune now, and road conditions are really not better here through which my family commutes most of the time. My family is mostly chauffeur driven in my Liva diesel. The vehicle has crossed 79K km in last 4+ years. The daily commute road is full of uneven concrete roads, sudden potholes and dips and all kinds of nuisance. There is lot of vertical movement and side by side movement in Liva at the back and this is accompanied by noisy thuds all the time. This is making my wife feel sick lately and hence the biggest criterion for our car search has been pliant ride at the back seat and a cabin with better NVH. This is when S-Cross and few others options came in. S-Cross 1.3: Pleasure to drive in the city even with the small engine. Significantly better NVH and build compared to my existing Liva, but not like a petrol car definitely. Little stiff ride at low speed and got better with speed. Excellent brakes. I like its understated looks. A strong shortlist indeed. My wife commented that Maruti has started making heaving doors like that of Fiats . We have a Palio stile back home in Kolkata and my family just loves the composed ride at the back. VW Ameo Highline Diesel (DSG): What a pleasure to drive within the city with the auto gear box and excellent power on tap. But it was a bit slow to respond when the car starts moving from a very low speed. This can be an issue in Stop-and-go traffic, could not test it though. The ride was defiitely better than my existing Liva, but could not compare it with S-Cross as the routes were different. Good NVH for a diesel car with windows rolled up. Since the driver will be driving the car 85% of the time, investment in a VW auto box remains a question mark. Honda city: Need to test drive it. But I heard that it not very rough road friendly. Since you own one, you can comment better. Used VW Jetta diesel manual: This probably suits my requirement with its multi-link suspension. I am still looking for a good used one. Urban cross/Regular Punto: Fiats are always known for their excellent rides. I heard that the latest versions have excellent NVH. Also, Fiat's production facility is very close to Pune. So, hope to have a better service here. If I go for Punto, I can keep my Liva as a 2nd car. Will be test driving it very soon. Duster 85 PS: This is supposed to be one of the best in terms of ride quality. Need to test drive this as well. However, NVH is quite bad. All in all quite confused. Hope to take clue from your thread and sorry for posting my own problems in your thread. Last edited by sups : 30th January 2017 at 13:55. | |
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30th January 2017, 23:46 | #20 | |||||
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| Re: In a strange quandary: S-Cross Zeta 1.3 vs Polo GT TSI Quote:
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Let me share a text message exchange this afternoon with my nephew (son of my elder brother, eldest of the next generation in our family) who lives in Mumbai and drives a Skoda Superb (I took ride in his car in the past, buttery smooth): Me: I am looking at Polo GT TSI to replace our old Getz. It has a turbo petrol engine with direct injection. In addition it has the DSG automatic transmission. My nephew: The biggest USP of the Volkswagen family is the DSG gearbox, used across Volks, Audi and Skoda. It is flawless and makes the car a pleasure to drive. I have no issues in 4.5 years. Initially, when DSG was launched 8-9 years back, there were some issues but they have been sorted out since. You can safely go for it. One of my team members has the GTI. She says it is superb. Me: Great to hear this. Thanks. On the GTI there are paddle-shifters, but the GT TSI does not have that. I still have the Honda City, and it is driving ever so beautifully. As a second car, I am thinking of a small automatic. My nephew: I don't think you need the paddle shifters on indian roads. I have hardly used them in my car.Seems to me that the problems with the DSG may be going down in number. Dealership people also told me that it would be hard to find DSG problems especially on the Polo. Quote:
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S-Cross 1.3: VW Ameo Highline Diesel (DSG): Honda city: Used VW Jetta diesel manual: Urban cross/Regular Punto: Duster 85 PS: [/quote] From your list, I will get the S-Cross without much further thought (and I will not let the driver have the DSG). | |||||
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31st January 2017, 09:20 | #21 | ||
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| Re: In a strange quandary: S-Cross Zeta 1.3 vs Polo GT TSI Quote:
During my used Jetta search in Pune, I came across a August 2015 Polo TSI run for 5000 km with a quoted on road price of 8.5 lakhs. I would have picked that up had it been meant for a self-driving car. [/quote] Quote:
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31st January 2017, 09:50 | #22 | ||
Team-BHP Support | Re: In a strange quandary: S-Cross Zeta 1.3 vs Polo GT TSI Quote:
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Additionally, some people have already started experiencing DSG failures in <2 year old cars (search the forum). Go for the Polo if you like it, but be prepared for DSG gremlins. | ||
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31st January 2017, 10:22 | #23 |
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| Re: In a strange quandary: S-Cross Zeta 1.3 vs Polo GT TSI
+1 to that. This is exactly what I heard from the VW sales man. On one hand, one of the strong selling point of VWs is the quick DSG gearbox, on the other hand it is so prone to failure. What a dilemma for the car buyers! |
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31st January 2017, 10:25 | #24 | ||
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| Re: In a strange quandary: S-Cross Zeta 1.3 vs Polo GT TSI Quote:
The S Cross probably will work best for your need. Do look at the Duster also. Maybe even the Creta if you have the budget. Quote:
Mine is a Vento TSI purchased in 2013 and had this same confusion on DSG worries (it was much higher then as it was the year of launch for both the Polo and the Vento). Finally I went with it as I felt that there is no point letting a potential future failure prevent me from experiencing the joy the TSI+DSG combo gives. 3+ years later, I have had no issues, but the thought of failure is always there. But that does not prevent me from enjoying what is an excellent car. In short, If you are buying the TSI DSG, this fact will always need to be there at the back of your mind.If you can live with that thought, the TSI is the perfect choice for your needs. Take the extended warranty and do due diligence when driving the DSG. Hopefully you will have a long and uneventful ownership experience. | ||
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31st January 2017, 13:58 | #25 |
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| Re: In a strange quandary: S-Cross Zeta 1.3 vs Polo GT TSI I recently bought a S-Cross 1.3. The in-city drivability is just perfect. I can easily glide over a speed breaker while staying in 3rd gear, without stalling the car. Granted the pick up post that is gradual but is perfectly workable. S-Cross is a no brainer if you want a spacious hatch which is fairly easy to drive in city and are fine with a Manual transmission. However given your requirements of driving in dense traffic, the Polo GT TSI makes much more sense and the one I would recommend. (given that you don't care about rear space much). Regarding the reliability of the DSG a question to experts: Is it really a concern given that running would be quite low at 500-600 kms per month? Last edited by djkher : 31st January 2017 at 14:03. |
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1st February 2017, 11:18 | #26 | ||||
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| Re: In a strange quandary: S-Cross Zeta 1.3 vs Polo GT TSI Quote:
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I think my wish of getting a small reliable petrol hatch is fading away. If you read my opening post carefully, long-term reliability was one of the mandatory requirements, because these days we keep our cars for 8 years at least. So, what do I do now? Coming from a Honda City, I will not be happy with a car with a listless petrol engine. That effortless driving and refinement even through dense traffic has to be matched. The problem is, I do not see options with a petrol engine anymore. That TSI showed promise, but the promise then vanished with the doubts on DSG. The naturally aspirated petrol options are there, but on cars which are equivalent to the City and it makes no sense to me to buy them as long as I still have the City. That leaves me with Ecoboost 1.0L (in Ecosport) and the Boosterjet 1.0L (rumoured to be launched on the Baleno, perhaps soon). I have not driven the Ecoboost, but reports are not very encouraging. The Boosterjet is going to arrive on Baleno, but I am not too intent on buying the Baleno, because I do not think (am I wrong?) the build quality is on par with what I want, say the S-Cross. Am I then not pushed (if not forced) to look at diesel engines, just for the performance bit? I now understand why I liked the S-Cross more clearly. Because it appears solidly built, safe and reliable, and has an engine that can push that heavy body through effortlessly at low rpm in a manner that is kind of addictive. I have been driving manual transmission for 35 years (only automatic car I owned in my life, long ago, is Nissan Sentra GXE 1992). If the car is built properly with perfect driving ergonomics (like in a City), I would not mind a manual transmission. I would not even know it's manual. Everything happens effortlessly even in dense traffic. That's why I did not care if it had a diesel engine. The diesel engine it is that is giving that 200Nm of torque even on a 1.3L engine. In addition, I felt the transmission on the S-Cross may be just better than the City's, although I drove it for a short time. But the feel of the clutch, and its physical characteristics (height etc) was very good. I did not have to adjust at all, I remember. Very similar feelings, when I took the test-drive of the City, a little more than 4 years ago. Confessions of a petrolhead - whatever you call it. That's the reality for me in my present predicament. Last night, I looked at the financial feasibility of the S-Cross 1.6L as well. On road Kolkata it would be nearly 14 Lakhs. A bit stiff with a budget of flexible max of 11 Lakhs, considering possibility of a relatively large investment this summer. Let me see. I already talked with my Nexa SA about test-driving the 1.3 again, and also the 1.6. But he wants to sell 1.3, because I think he has three in stock. I still think, I can be happy with the 1.3 (given that most of my driving would be in the city), but I shall test-drive the 1.6 also. Now, if I am not averse to diesel engines and manual transmissions, how about the Polo GT TDI? It satisfies the smallness factor. Reportedly, the manual transmission is very good, and people rave about that engine. In its newest avatar (2017 updated), it still delivers 250 Nm of torque. What do you guys say? Can this be what I am looking for? I am considering a test-drive. Today is Vasanta Panchami - a major festival around here with Saraswati Puja. I am home today. This has allowed me to do the soul-searching. Kindly suggest. Last edited by asitkde : 1st February 2017 at 11:25. | ||||
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1st February 2017, 12:00 | #27 |
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| Re: In a strange quandary: S-Cross Zeta 1.3 vs Polo GT TSI Here's how I see it, purely based on prioritising and consequent elimination: 1. Based on your requirements, I feel an A/T should be a must have (heavy Kolkatta driving etc) as a first priority. On that basis alone I am ruling out any version of the S-Cross or other manual car options listed. 2. You clearly want a car that is also fun to drive. It need not be big since you also have the City, but should be reasonably comfortable I guess. On that basis I am ruling out any of the A/T hatches that are not very exciting (read Ignis, Jazz, Baleno - these are all CVTs / AMTs and frankly speaking quite underwhelming from an FTD quotient standpoint). IMO, based on the above, you should narrow your options to GT TSI and the Ecosport (yes - I am reopening the Ecosport option). The GT TSI will clearly be THE MOST fun to drive and but as indicated by many, you must be prepared to bite the possible bullet of DSG gremlins even today, if you select this. Also, I suspect the upkeep of this will be the costliest amongst the listed options. If these aspects are acceptable, then you must go for this. The Ford Ecosport is roomy enough yet compact i.e. has respectable space, recently refreshed, well equipped and is also a quick A/T gearbox. If you want to side step the DSG risk, I feel the Ecosport could be the sensible yet fun enough to drive option. A bit of heart and a bit of head without being overboard on either count. Hope this helps. |
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1st February 2017, 12:43 | #28 |
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| Re: In a strange quandary: S-Cross Zeta 1.3 vs Polo GT TSI Short version: Get Polo TSI, or just continue with Getz. Why do you want a big fat diesel manual car? The only reason you are looking to buy a car is to beat the blues of city traffic, and Polo TSI is remarkably built just for that. I can assure you that no TSI owner will discourage you from buying it, isn't that good enough? Long version: I have a Honda City AT and I like the motor but hate the go-kart feel of the car. It has extremely poor NVH - I don't even realise if a window was rolled down on a busy road. TSI will be more fun than Honda motor and Polo offers great build and NVH, etc. I have driven lot of cars and this car is an unbelievable product under 10 Lakhs. Polo TSI is a very popular car with people who also own high end luxury cars. The reason is simple: Maruti is trying to build a premium car using a parts bin of budget cars. VW is building a budget car using a parts bin of luxury cars. I admit the ownership of Polo TSI can go wrong, but look at the overall package of ownership experience: 1. First 4 years, you are covered under warranty with a history of quick and hassle free repairs. Repeat failures are rare in recent versions. 2. VW dumped lot of technologies that didn't work (Pump Duse vs CRDI, etc.) but they are fully committed to DSG and it is more than 10yr old tech. 3. Polo 1.2 is a small engine, with good factor of safety and your usage is less. 4. Your next best option (Diesel + Manual, yuck!) is more expensive, needlessly bigger and gunning for your knees. Keep the difference in the bank to cover any potential life threatening Polo reliability issues. 5. After 4 years, I expect your son to gift you a Tesla Haven't you managed a career, built a house, raised kids, eaten home cooked food? Can't you deal with a sub 10Lakh car ownership? |
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1st February 2017, 13:36 | #29 | |
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| Re: In a strange quandary: S-Cross Zeta 1.3 vs Polo GT TSI Quote:
And the DCT is not without its own problems. It has a very poor opinion in the US and there are actually lawsuits filed against Ford for this 'Unpredictable Gearbox' in both the US and Australia. My comments are based on the fact that I own a TSI DSG and we have a Ford Ecosport AT in my home town. For the kind of use case we have, it is pretty ok, but if I had got it for myself, would have been disappointed big time. | |
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1st February 2017, 14:01 | #30 | |
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| Re: In a strange quandary: S-Cross Zeta 1.3 vs Polo GT TSI Quote:
I do agree its nowhere like the explosive TSI (I drove it once and it absolutely plastered the widest grin on my face). But wouldn't it still be far better than the other A/T options like Baleno and Jazz? My recommendation of the Ecosport was actually more as something that's better than the other options, unless of course even that is not the case. | |
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