[H_Dogg72]

Originally Posted by SLK

There is no need to brag. All of us who own a GT, own other cars too and we were not born in a car with a DSG. GT is appreciated by most people only because it is an excellent combination of engine and DSG. DSG in auto mode has an habit of overworking, but 7 gears doesn't really mean that your typical petrol car's 5 gears have been squeezed in 7, the 6th and the 7th are taller than most petrol cars' 5th gear. So what it means is that it doesn't need to shift and lose time if you want to hurry.

There you go, you spelt it! There's the prejudice, what's the point of discussion, you can just vote for Figo 1.5 (sorry that's the only 1.5 option here)

Buddy let it be. There's a heavy bias in this thread. Logically and technically speaking the DSG is better than a manual transmission. But that's not working here.
You know what though. I think this is just a case of SOUR GRAPES. I'm happy with my TSI and would not trade it for a manual tsi or Abarth. And if this level of enthusiasm was actually true. We would see a lot of abarths on road. HELL, we even have an ABARTH OWNER voting for the GT TSI.

Originally Posted by devilwearsprada

How is 1.5 Liter engine at 100 bhp any better than 1.2LTurbo at 110BHP?
Please tell me.

Also, driven both cars. The i-VTEC is no competition for the GT TSi. In any example you have given. The V-TEC yes is good, but then again the GT does everything you said it doesn't?
Next?

It's like talking to a wall, man.
Compare it to a 1.4TSI manual or 2L TDI and then we can talk. But here it is comparing it to a naturally aspirated engine that makes torque only at the top end and that too not that much being better than a turbo that makes it at 1250 or so rpm and that too 175nm.

[IshaanIan]

Originally Posted by devilwearsprada

How is 1.5 Liter engine at 100 bhp any better than 1.2LTurbo at 110BHP?
Please tell me, god of automotive engineering.

Originally Posted by H_Dogg72

Buddy let it be. There's a heavy bias in this thread. Logically and technically speaking the DSG is better than a manual transmission. But that's not working here.

Guys in terms of power to weight ratio, the 1st gen Vtec City actually trumps the Polo by 10 horses and in terms of Torque to weight ratio the Polo trumps the 1st gen Vtec city by 10 newton meters. Fairly close. No doubt a GT tsi will eat the city in a drag race but do you really think it stands a chance on a circuit?

Anyway I have admitted the strengths of the DSG in the Polo along with my reasoning as to why it doesn't 'always' best a manual, but if people are going to suggest that there is a heavy bias and that the DSG is always better in every possible scenario, then I don't see any point in taking the discussion further. What has to be said has already been said. Peace!

[mrinmoy_s]

I haven't driven the Punto Abarth so can't comment. But I found the Baleno to have one of the poorest build qualities that's way too flimsy for a 'hot hatch'. That leaves the competition between the Polo GT TSI and the Figo 1.5.

The Figo is a good car and especially a VFM car. It's quick with an awesome engine and a decent dual clutch gearbox. The build quality is though questionable, especially when you compare it with the old Figos.

However, the Polo GT TSI is still the best hatch back that 10-11L range can buy and that's probably the closest that an average Indian middle class can get to a 'hot hatch'. The 1.2L TSI engine is a gem and the true son of it's legendary father the 1.8L TSI (in the Octy)! And that DSG is probably the only gearbox that I would prefer as much as a manual, if not slightly more.

The above points coupled with a great build quality makes the Polo GT TSI the winner for me in this vote!

[reignofchaos]

Originally Posted by IshaanIan

Guys in terms of power to weight ratio, the 1st gen Vtec City actually trumps the Polo by 10 horses and in terms of Torque to weight ratio the Polo trumps the 1st gen Vtec city by 10 newton meters. Fairly close. No doubt a GT tsi will eat the city in a drag race but do you really think it stands a chance on a circuit?

Without any mods, the first generation OHC VTEC is really skittish and not that great to drive. High speed stability is really suspect. Hell even a Brio has a better chassis than it. The suspension was really soft and wallowy - much worse than the polo suspension. Once heavily modified with better suspension and some chassis mods and then stripped off unnecessary weight, it is a really good car to drive. However if you compare a stock GT to a stock OHC VTEC, the GT will eat it alive both in drags and also around a track. Also to get more power out of a VTEC, you need to do serious mods while all the GT requires is a remap.

To be honest NA engines are past their prime and they is no point comparing them to modern turbo petrols. The only exceptions are super cars. In all other use cases these days, turbo petrols rule.

[androdev]

When you look at Audi A4, Q3 being sold with 1.4L motor, you just can't help feeling good about Polo 1.2 TSI. It's almost as if VW hired Santa Claus by mistake. This car is in a different league, sharing the stage with others in the list only because of it's price and size. It needs paddle shifters to be a complete package though.

Edit: I drive a v-tec (honda city 1.5 5-sp AT). It's all just noise and no go. I entertain my kids by rev'ing it like mad using paddle shifts - they like it and it is safe because there is hardly any speed gain. Fun car if you like engine sound and don't want to go fast.

[CrAzY dRiVeR]

Originally Posted by androdev

When you look at Audi A4, Q3 being sold with 1.4L motor, you just can't help feeling good about Polo 1.2 TSI. It's almost as if VW hired Santa Claus by mistake. This car is in a different league, sharing the stage with others in the list only because of it's price and size

The motor is still less displacement as compared to the 1.4 TJET, which is not only a turbo petrol like the 1.2 TSI, but is even more of a Santa Claus because it does not enjoy the tax subsidies of the others, a rarity ever since the 'sub 4m' rules came into place.

It's even a Santa Claus in terms of sales, with a handful of units getting sold only around festival times.

[IshaanIan]

Originally Posted by reignofchaos

the GT will eat it alive both in drags and also around a track.

The track tests and lap times are all out there mate and they do not agree with you. I agree to all your points about the highspeed stability in a City but it definitely never felt as wallowy as you are claiming. Besides, on an open track, who cares about stability when neither of these cars are going to be doing such high speeds that an experienced driver will find it difficult to tame The low weight always helped keep it easy to chuck into corners. Chassis dynamics and engine aspiration aside, the DSG simply will not allow a Polo to beat anything with similar power to weight ratios around a track. This has been proven time and again.

Originally Posted by reignofchaos

To be honest NA engines are past their prime and they is no point comparing them to modern turbo petrols. The only exceptions are super cars. In all other use cases these days, turbo petrols rule.

lol I think you have it the other way around buddy. Modern turbocharged super cars definitely out perform their NA counterparts in every aspect but your every day turbo petrol still does suffer from turbo lag even if only a bit. Throttle response just isnt the same unless you're talking about high tech supercars, I'd take a larger NA motor with the same power figures thanks very much

About NA petrols and manuals being past their prime, sure when you've got over a crore to spend perhaps and even otherwise to majority of the folks out there they would definitely benefit from a turbocharged automatic even if it is a relatively inexpensive unit. BUT for folks with enough skill, the average twin clutch automatic and turbocharged engines still aren't quite upto the mark yet. Majority of the time, sure these new things work well but out on the track when you're pushing it, the unwillingness of the gearbox to brake and sustain high revs down the gears, and the lag is pretty evident.

[androdev]

Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR

The motor is still less displacement as compared to the 1.4 TJET, which is not only a turbo petrol like the 1.2 TSI, but is even more of a Santa Claus because it does not enjoy the tax subsidies of the others, a rarity ever since the 'sub 4m' rules came into place.

It's even a Santa Claus in terms of sales, with a handful of units getting sold only around festival times.

Gearbox is the connection between the driver and the motor. I am okay with a slick manual GB for a turbo petrol, but the Fiat GB is a big let down. I have to admit I am a VW fanboy - I like their short throw manual GBs as well. Problem with Fiat cars in general is that they score 10/10 on certain aspects and get 3-4 in other aspects (GB, interior design and finish)

[anb]

Originally Posted by IshaanIan

Guys in terms of power to weight ratio, the 1st gen Vtec City actually trumps the Polo by 10 horses and in terms of Torque to weight ratio the Polo trumps the 1st gen Vtec city by 10 newton meters. Fairly close.

The ratio between max power/torque produced and weight is of less importance. The more important factor is at power and torque curve. For most NA petrols like vtec are dead below 4000 rpm. Peak torque of 1.2 TSi available from 1500 rpm where in City V.tec you have to rev it over 4000 rpm to get some performance. Gone are the days of NA petrol. Turbo-petrols are the future. You have to accept it. Even new Civic will be coming with 1.5 turbo petrol.

Originally Posted by IshaanIan

Lap times don't lie and I haven't seen a stock GT TSI beat the OHC Vtec around a track ever. .

Compare stock to stock. Most the OHC Vtecs coming to track are modded. Also the 7 speed DSG is not suitable for track. But will be faster on road than any City Vtec

[RajeevMD]

Im not sure if my post regarding the VW Polo GT Tsi is relevant here, but why is VW India quite secretive about the upgrades they give to the car and why do they do that every now so often ?

The case here being the GT Tsi recently got upgraded from 15" Estrada alloys to 16" Portago ones. This upgrade wasn't reported on any auto website nor was it on their company website. I'm sure this would be good news for enthusiasts and would impact their buying decisions.

Here's a pic I saw on my visit to the dealer

[IshaanIan]

Originally Posted by anb

The ratio between max power/torque produced and weight is of less importance. The more important factor is at power and torque curve. For most NA petrols like vtec are dead below 4000 rpm. Peak torque of 1.2 TSi available from 1500 rpm where in City V.tec you have to rev it over 4000 rpm to get some performance. Gone are the days of NA petrol. Turbo-petrols are the future. You have to accept it. Even new Civic will be coming with 1.5 turbo petrol.

no need to school me on power/torque curves buddy I'm well versed with that. Read my post carefully I have written that majority of the time a turbo petrol automatic does the job better. However who is interested in going at such low rpms on a track? I am talking about driving on the limit in track conditions nothing else.

Originally Posted by anb

Compare stock to stock. Most the OHC Vtecs coming to track are modded. Also the 7 speed DSG is not suitable for track. But will be faster on road than any City Vtec

I am comparing stock to stock. The DSG not being suitable for the track is exactly what I am pointing out. Some folks are happy just driving fast and that's perfectly alright but I like to push my cars to the limit if that is okay with everyone I never said that DSGs are bad, read my previous posts, I even said I'd love to own one mainly because of the DSG as an everyday car, BUT because they don't work so well on or close to the limit, which is how I feel a hot hatch ought to evoke one to drive, I wouldn't buy a Polo GT tsi as a hot hatch. Simple. I am not saying it isn't a fast car or that it isn't someone else's hot hatch. Just not mine and I think I have justified why more than enough times.

[swissknife]

Originally Posted by a4anurag

Specifications Comparison

Attachment 1623856

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Pricing Comparison

Attachment 1623725

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Features Comparison

Attachment 1623733

My GT TSI Petrol has electrically fold-able and adjustable OVRMs. I suspect that this specification may be out dated.

[H_Dogg72]

Laughing out loud.
Here you have owners of the Abarth and Honda city 1.5 both telling you how the GT is a better car and you're stuck on your way.
Peak torque comes early in a turbo petrol, doesn't mean you can't redline it, man.
Turbo petrols are the future. Simple as that. The tuneability and ease of early torque is phenomenal.
Even the DSG vs manual argument is moot. There's a reason why the new R8 doesn't come in manual. Because people didn't buy it and nor was it any better than the DSG now offered.

[IshaanIan]

Originally Posted by H_Dogg72

Peak torque comes early in a turbo petrol, doesn't mean you can't redline it, man.

Does the GT tsi allow you to attack a corner and brake into it while sustaining high revs down through the gears? No. That is all I meant to say. It simply does not work out on the track and if you want to play things your way, you've got owners stating it isnt suitable for the track too. Is it that hard to wrap your head around that concept?

Originally Posted by H_Dogg72

LaughingTurbo petrols are the future. Simple as that. The tuneability and ease of early torque is phenomenal.

They definitely are. No arguments there. BUT they simply aren't there yet in terms of responsiveness unless you are talking about 918s

Originally Posted by H_Dogg72

Even the DSG vs manual argument is moot. There's a reason why the new R8 doesn't come in manual. Because people didn't buy it and nor was it any better than the DSG now offered.

Oh so now you believe the Polo's DSG comes close to the way the DSG in the R8 performs? I have driven the R8 (albeit the previous generation) and believe me the Polo's transmission is not a smidge on it.

[H_Dogg72]

My bad if I was rude, but you can compare the 7 speed in the Polo to the 6 speed wet clutch and it performs much faster than it. Even the gti gets the 7 speed. I'm not talking about comparing the gbox to the R8, it's about how manuals are being phased out in favor of better DSG.
I'm comparing it directly to the Abarth and Figo and Baleno. The DSG beats all of them.
If you're talking about left foot braking then yes it allows for momentary acceleration and braking but after a while it cuts it off to prevent unintended acceleration WHICH IS THE SAME CASE in modern manual cars. This was done to prevent accidents.
You can't compare modern cars to old age cars which had no electronics. Compare the same generation.