[jpm]

I Currently own an Ikon 1.6 which is usually happy gulping a litre for hardly 8km in traffic and pot holed roads in a large-ish town. Planning to keep it though but looking for a cheaper, smaller city car for daily use mostly with occasional highway trips.

My requirements as follows:
1. Self Driven Daily city commute of 10-15km. Highways: Several 1000Km+ binges every 4-6mo (or so I think - have driven 28K in my Ikon in 18mo).

2. Diesel / Petrol torn between these two. more on this later.

3. Should be Relatively Maintenance Free. (2 and 3 may appear contradictory)

4. My brother and I are both six footers. So two 6 footers ideally should be comfortable in the front. Rear seat riding comfort is important but legroom can be compromised on.

5. Have Authorized Service Centers only for Maruti/TATA/Hyundai in my town. Others have to travel 50 km at least to next city.

6. Budget: upto 4.5-4.75 Lakhs On Road

7. Must have features: Central Locking, Power Steering, Power Windows (F&R), A/C

8. No Hyundais! Dont know this is a sane thing to do. Getz over priced as well. Palio not considered also because of its A*S*S in our area.

9. Resale is important as dont plan to keep it over 3-4 years.

10. Costs on Spares / maintenance / service

11. Someone is gifting me so I dont have to worry too much about initial on-road prices too much as long as within this price bracket. However, I am to finalize the deal.

Now my choices: Indica DLG Turbo Diesel, Swift VXi, Indica Xeta GLX


My Experience So far: Test Drove Indica Xeta GLX / Swift ZXi

Swift ZXi: Build Quality seemed to be so 'unMaruti'. Decent Space in Front. Rear Cramped but ok for shorter passengers I guess. Wasnt impressed with the Climate Control / AC. Not sure if settings were wrong or the AC in itself bad.

Nice to Drive especially in bumper to bumper traffic with no need to change gears that often. More easier than my ikon I presume. I liked the car instantly and wont mind being in the cabin for long periods of time. The sales Exec went on and on about FE of Swift somewhere at 14+kmpl in city traffic. I think realistically will be 11kmpl?

He also said No idea when 1.3 Diesel is coming out or how much it would be priced. Also he expects a 8-10% (!!!!! )) hike in Maruti prices anytime in December. Ready to offer Cash discount of 17K + Rs. 1500 Accessories.

VXi works out to Rs. 4.59L (down from 4.74L) on Road. May go still down if pushed i think.


Indica Xeta GLX: Seems spacious too. Steering to Seat Height seemed bizarre resulting in not so comfortable position. Gear shifts were needed slightly more frequently than the Swift. Build not as good as swift (door shut thuds are fabulous in swift for this price range). But overall seems to be fully loaded complete with spoiler without ICE of course.

Here again the exec went on about 14+kmpl for Petrol. Price of which is 3.97L Rs. on Road. He is not sure when Indica DiCOR Diesel is coming out (Last month inhouse conference in BGLR, was announced to expect in late 2007 and bigger, newer indica in 2008 apparently : Sales Exec). Also prices supposed to increase 2-5% in January. Ready to give cash discount of 12K+1500Rs accessories. Saying being fast moving vehicles, he cant really give more. DLG Turbo Diesel with the Discount works out to 4.27L Rs.

------------------
Havent test driven the Turbo Diesel. Have been promised in a couple of days. The sales exec said flatly same 12K discount +1500Rs accessories for Diesel as well. But he said a very funny thing. Turbo Diesel will be less fuel efficient than non turbo ones. Almost a km or two less per liter. He adviced take the DLS model for 4.12L then add Central Locking / Power Windows if i want decent FE (in his words solid 20kmpl of diesel). is this True?

1. Having searched the forums for several hours and still didnt manage to find such a situation dealt with here. I wish to find out if I am unnecessarily investing in a diesel which will eventually have higher incidental costs for I am goin to run the car maximum 500 km most months? That too when I can have the Swift VXi. Has modern diesel technology offset those maintenance costs and made them similar to a petrol? Will I be saving money really if I go for a diesel? Some advice I will, while others say I will end up spending more despite the initial higher premiums on diesel cars.

2. Price Hikes in December / Jan : Are they going to be so serious enough that if i buy my car now, the whole 06Dec vs 07Jan resale value debate is pointless?

3. Are these deals fair enough?

4. Is an Indica going to be rattling all over in 6 mo, as some of my friends warn me?

5. Are Indica DiCOR / New Indica / Swift 1.3 going to be launched anytime soon within 3-6 mo and spoil my party??

6. Will the new Zen be worth considering? And if so, how long to wait till its launch?

Please Advice.

Am sorry if this post is redundant. Kindly direct me to the appropriate old thread if one exists already.

[ravibhat]

Swift VXI is right choice for you since it matches your requirement for good resale value, good service network, decent economy of 11+kmpl in city and on highway you can expect 16+. I guess to push car sales its been told there is chances of hike if there is hike also it might be max. 3,000 Rs for Swift. Diesel is not worth for you If you plan to keep Icon too.

However you can think about diesel Indigo V series also new look Indigo base model, I really liked its inside space and improvement in terms of quality. It will be value buy and indigo offers great comfort for bad indian roads and great space for its size.

TATA cars might not be upto the mark but not bad for sure!


Ravi.

[rahul_intlad]

With the new zen expected in a week or two think you should wait.Also zen too will have the multijet 1.3 diesel engine[supposed to be outstanding in terms of FE].But to make comments on a yet to be launched vehicle will not be prudent.
However keep in mind new zen is supposed to be a segment lower than swift and mostly will have less space than swift.

However for 500km a month a petrol engine is all you would require and the swift should be alright.As far as indica goes it would be better with the diesel engine.One or two weeks and we will have a clear picture and maybe then you will get your answer.

[Zappo]

With barely 500kms per month I think you can live with a petrol. In that term Swift it should be.

However, about Indica I would rather say that do not depend on mere hearsay. It is nowhere near as bad as people say it is. In fact I would suggest you look at a specific thread that almost cuts through all the arguments in this regard. Though be warned that all that din may almost sound deafening to you buddy.

[esteem_lover]

Originally Posted by jpm

11. Someone is gifting me so I dont have to worry too much about initial on-road prices too much as long as within this price bracket. However, I am to finalize the deal.

Congrats on the gift & welcome to T-BHP. whats the occassion. do share it with us, if you like to. I would suggest you wait till the MRWagon or the new Zen is released. Also palio is not a bad choice given that you have a TATA workshop in your place.

[mtnrajdeep]

Originally Posted by jpm

But he said a very funny thing. Turbo Diesel will be less fuel efficient than non turbo ones. Almost a km or two less per liter.

Hey...even I got to hear the same from a salesperson in Hyderabad! When I went about quizzing him about the torque being more, implying less gear changes while driving, better pickup etc, he then said that it all depends on how you drive.

However, I still didnt get the reason why turbocharged diesel cars will deliver lesser mileage than non turbocharged diesels. Anyone can explain this?

[tsk1979]

Turbo will give better mileage, because you get more torque and hence can drive better. Esp true on highway. While my indica gives 18kmpl+, with indigo I could get 20kmpl+ because I did not have to push that hard to maintain around 100-120kmph

[mtnrajdeep]

Originally Posted by tsk1979

Turbo will give better mileage, because you get more torque and hence can drive better. Esp true on highway. While my indica gives 18kmpl+, with indigo I could get 20kmpl+ because I did not have to push that hard to maintain around 100-120kmph

This is on the highway. Then what about in the city? I do not know how the torque is produced in the turbocharged diesels. Are they easier to drive in the city conditions when compared to naturally aspirated diesels? Do we have to rev more in city conditions?

[tsk1979]

yes there is a notable difference. Esp where flyovers or stop start traffic as well as lane changing to overtake involved.

[jpm]

guys,
thanks for your replies. I think I can wait for a week or two. I see, in this forum , that the 1.3Multijet is expected to sort of turn the whole diesel hatch market upside down in India.

Meanwhile went to the Maruti Showroom to have a look at the Swift again. The sales exec probably sensed I am worried about FE and suggested Wagon R Duo, though its half a segment lower than Swift.

He said although LPG stations arent even being considered in our region for the moment, we can buy regular LPG cylinders and get the contents transferred to the gas tank in the Duo apparently, all completely legal. One LPG cylinder ~ 300 km was his equation.

This Turbo vs Non Turbo debate - I called the sales exec again. He said I can take DLS (62ps vs DLG's 68.5ps) and have Central Locking and Power Windows fitted. This way he promised I will get better mileage but that will still be lower than non turbo versions' 20kmpl+.

He is trying to push me towards Xeta, if i needed performance or Non Turbo if i needed FE. He is not recommending Turbo version. I was of the understanding that Turbo Indicas are the 'refined'est of the lot.

Palio seems more expensive on paper. Havent really checked it out since my mind was kind of closed due to fiat's A*S*S problems.

As for Indigo or Esteem, I prefer a hatchback at the moment. Thanks for your suggestions, though.

[Adi_k]

Originally Posted by jpm

Indica Xeta GLX: Seems spacious too. Steering to Seat Height seemed bizarre resulting in not so comfortable position. Gear shifts were needed slightly more frequently than the Swift. Build not as good as swift (door shut thuds are fabulous in swift for this price range). But overall seems to be fully loaded complete with spoiler without ICE of course.

.

Hmm...I think otherwise, Xeta needs less gear shift than swift in traffic. I am not an expert but thats my take from the test drives. Comments from experts welcome.

[tsk1979]

the car you choose is entirely your choice, but if FE concerns you, you will be happier with a diesel Turbo.
In the petrol space, swift is a better car, and within your budget. If you can afford the swift and buy the Xeta, you will regret your decision sometime in future, even though Xeta is Value for Money