[Vignesh_N/A]

Originally Posted by PrasannaDhana

Attachment 1832196

And you see most people here voting for GT Tsi as their favourite hot hatch quoting convenience inside the city

Remember the first time driving the Abarth. Man, that was explosive.

One thing I noticed with TSi is the 7 speed gearbox that works hard to mask the deficiency in power. It is fun to see the tacho needle bouncing up and down to keep the engine boiling. But when you start to look at the speedo, the numbers dont rise as fast it would in Abarth. There is no replacement for displacement is what I could think of. When you factor in that the bigger displacement has also a turbo, then TSi is quite lost in terms of performance.

Even when it comes to handling, Abarth felt more solid and confidence inspiring. Courtesy of brilliant brakes.

What I could see here is most of the votes were driven by convenience factor of an AT. Or maybe its just a german thing that I dont understand.

[PrasannaDhana]

Originally Posted by Vignesh_N/A

What I could see here is most of the votes were driven by convenience factor of an AT. Or maybe its just a german thing that I dont understand.

Or there is another possibility, most of those who have voted for Tsi may have not experienced the Abarth punto. Abarth being a low selling car, and most Fiat dealers don't have the car for test drive.

In my opinion, if they drive the Abarth Punto and the GT Tsi back to back, they might realise that the difference is so substantial that the autobox convenience would matter a little lesser on their choice.

One more point I would disagree is the ergonomics issue that many have pointed out in the Abarth. I found the ergonomics perfectly alright within minutes I sat in it. May be the owner and friend BHPian Nitninja is of my same height 6'2. I am sure with a few adjustments to the seating position, anyone can find a comfortable driving position in it.

By the way, I still believe the original 1.6 GT TDI is a hotter, more interesting car than the 1.2 GT TSI. I don't know why the poll has missed the 1.5 GT TDI even as an option, or may be the 1.5 got diluted? No idea as I haven't driven it yet.

[xjosephjacob]

Originally Posted by Arjun Reddy

This poll is about hot hatches. Not which car you would buy for convenience.

Oh please, was there a mention of convenience in the post ? From a performance standpoint alone, its evident that Punto doesn't have competition here, and the poll itself doesn't make much sense. For many, packaging matters.

[ss11011988]

Though not mentioned in this list, has to be the Ford Figo S Diesel for me. Though not a sharp handler like the Abarth Punto or VW Polo or god forbid, the previous Ford models, it can hold on well with its adversaries owing to the fine motor beneath its hood. Throw in some nice upgrades(Tuning box, better rubber, better dampers,racing suspension, free flow exhaust) and it could very well be every Indian enthusiast's wet dream.Peace.

[pavi]

For those you are cribbing about ‘the era of manuals are gone’, should know the re-introduction of Porsche 911 GT3 in manual transmission, Ford Focus ST, Honda Civic TypeR etc. are still having manual transmissions. If you ask me ‘can you match the lightning speed shifts of a DCT in a MT’, definitely I would say a big ‘NO’, but it all comes down to the ‘feel’. The feeling of changing gears and rev matching downshifts are something which cannot be described in words. So if you think all ‘manual’ guys are outdated, you may not be knowing how to rev match downshift or you may be suffering from a knee problem, definitely on the left leg .

[Waspune]

Originally Posted by pavi

For those you are cribbing about 'the era of manuals are gone', should know the re-introduction of Porsche 911 GT3 in manual transmission, Ford Focus ST, Honda Civic TypeR etc. are still having manual transmissions. If you ask me 'can you match the lightning speed shifts of a DCT in a MT', definitely I would say a big 'NO', but it all comes down to the 'feel'. The feeling of changing gears and rev matching downshifts are something which cannot be described in words. So if you think all 'manual' guys are outdated, you may not be knowing how to rev match downshift or you may be suffering from a knee problem, definitely on the left leg .

+1. It's only in India where the manual variants of the expensive cars aren't available. Go to the West and you would find manual transmission in almost every fun to drive car, be it the mini Cooper S, Audi A3, Skoda VRS, Fiesta S, Subaru WRX and what not!
Yes the traffic conditions are deteriorating day to day and it makes sense to go for an automatic car but in essence an automatic car can never give the same pleasure as driving a true-blue manual car.
When there is a poll to select the best hot hatch, people are still more concerned about the convenience rather than the hot ingredients that makes a hot hatch! Sadly that's the truth of nowadays so-called car enthusiasts!

[PrasannaDhana]

Slightly

What's fascinating to me is that a Tata car is getting almost 20% votes and third spot in the hot hatch in India poll in TeamBHP!

Would we have even imagined a Tata hatchback would be the choice of 1 in 5 bhpians when it comes to a hot hatch poll?

That is a very commendable job by Tata! Comparing the JTP, the Baleno RS and even the Liva TRD feel like a half-baked attempt by their respective manufacturers.

At one moment, I want to appreciate Tata for developing the JTP and at another, I am facepalming at the poor, unorganised manner at which they deal with marketing and sales of the JTP twins. It feels like Tata wants to prove that they can make sporty VFM cars but are not interested in selling them to the masses in decent numbers.

[Santoshbhat]

Originally Posted by PrasannaDhana

+1. Absolutely!

The first time I drove the GT Tsi, this is what exactly I thought. "Damn this car is overrated!" This was what exactly I wrote in Teambhp in one of my threads after the 50 km drive on the highway: (No offence to owners)

Attachment 1832196

It is nice and all, but there isn't much of a fun factor or a thrill in driving it. Power delivery is nowhere near explosive. It is entertaining and not boring and that's about it. It handles okay but when you bring Abarth's dynamics into comparison, GT Tsi becomes nothing more than an average car. And you see most people here voting for GT Tsi as their favourite hot hatch quoting convenience inside the city

Well the car that you think doesn't even deserve the hot hatch tag is, at this time, trailing the leader by just about 13 votes out of a total base of 520 votes!

This is what a BHPian who has owned both cars for a reasonable period of time has to say

Originally Posted by chase_nt

Voted for the GT TSI. Having owned 2 GT TSI’s and the Abarth Punto over the last 5 years and even though the GT TSI has the lowest power/weight ratio out of all these hatches it more than makes up for it with the brilliant DSG. The GT TSI gives you the feeling of speed. There was a time when I wouldn’t consider a car with an automatic transmission as something a true enthusiast would drive however my perspective changed after I owned the first generation GT TSI. Over the two years that I owned the Abarth I found that it’s the sort of car that’s at sea when you drive in the city as it requires umpteen gear changes which is totally uncharacteristic for a vehicle with 145 bhp. Not everyone would wanna drive the Abarth like a hoon all the time and there are times when you just wanna take it easy. The Abarth makes great sense if 80- 90% of your driving centers around highways and ghats. The GT TSI on the other hand I feel is very versatile as its great in all conditions which is why the GT TSI will always be my number one pick as an affordable hot hatch.

He bought the Abarth after owning the GT TSI and went back and bought another GT TSI after that! There must be a good reasons, don't you think?

I am subscribed to the GT TSI official thread and the words 'blown away' are used quite often by people who drive it for the first time. I like fast cars and have owned/ currently own powerful cars by Indian standards and still get pretty impressed by the GT TSI whenever I get a chance to drive it. The car does have it's shortcomings no doubt, but so do all other cars in this list. Unfortunately we don't have proper hot hatches in our market and our reference point is the regular hatches that we have here. Compared to these, the Polo GT TSI is pretty hot if you ask me.

[PrasannaDhana]

Originally Posted by Santoshbhat

He bought the Abarth after owning the GT TSI and went back and bought another GT TSI after that! There must be a good reasons, don't you think?

Well, suppose a guy who was using a scooter, sells it, buys a sports bike and then sells it and again buys a scooter, does that mean the scooter is hotter/more fun than the sports bike?

I am talking in the context of this thread. According to him the scooter may have been more convenient and suitable for his usage. That doesn't necessarily mean the scooter is as interesting as the sports bike. Again I am not equating GT Tsi to a scooter. It's just an analogy.

Secondly, if you follow Duke 200 or CBR250R threads, you will also find the terms "brutal/scary acceleration" at many places. The same people after experiencing a Duke 390/Kawasaki 650 will have their opinions about the Duke 200/CBR changed. Unfortunately/fortunately you can't edit your previous posts in Teambhp beyond the 30 minutes window. I hope you understand what I say. First time when I rode the duke 200, I was like "woah". Give it to me now, I may feel sleepy within minutes.

As I have already said, let people drive both the cars back to back and then they will understand. One person using both cars and going back to one of them is his personal decision that he had taken considering the overall package, A.S.S, convenience etc etc, and not just because his choice was the hotter car among the two.

To my understanding, this poll is about your favourite true blue hot hatch, meaning, performance, handling and dynamics play the major role and all other stuff takes a back seat. Hence the vote to Abarth.

No one said Abarth is a better car than the GT Tsi. We just say Abarth is a hotter car than the GT Tsi. And my opinion about the Tsi is unchanged. It is still very ordinary to me, even when compared to its diesel twin, 1.6 TDI. If you find the GT Tsi hot, great! To each his own.

[Santoshbhat]

Originally Posted by PrasannaDhana

As I have already said, let people drive both the cars back to back and then they will understand. One person using both cars and going back to one of them is his personal decision that he had taken considering the overall package, A.S.S, convenience etc etc, and not just because his choice was the hotter car among the two.

Your scooter and sports bike analogy is a bit too much of an exaggeration. I suggest you read the ownership threads of chase_nt of the GT TSI and the Abarth. He has written very passionately about both cars like a true enthusiast.

Originally Posted by PrasannaDhana

No one said Abarth is a better car than the GT Tsi. We just say Abarth is a hotter car than the GT Tsi. And my opinion about the Tsi is unchanged. It is still very ordinary to me, even when compared to its diesel twin, 1.6 TDI. If you find the GT Tsi hot, great! To each his own.

Neither did I say that GT is the better or hotter car. My post was just in response to your comment that the GT TSI wasn't hot enough even to be on the option list. And it's not one person that disagrees with you, it is 184 as of now.

[PrasannaDhana]

Originally Posted by PrasannaDhana

To each his own.

Quoting my previous post since you seemed to have missed it.
I stated my opinion about the GT Tsi. My opinion was formed after driving both the cars to their limits and not after reading someone else's ownership review of it.

I am not forcing you to agree that my opinion is true and yours isn't.

Originally Posted by Santoshbhat

And it's not one person that disagrees with you, it is 184 as of now.

And hence, I don't care if it is 184 or entire forum or entire world that disagrees with me. At the end of the day, it is MY opinion about a car and it has 0% need for someone else to validate it. Even by your logic, number of people agreeing with me is more than those disagreeing with me.(as though it matters)

I don't think arguing anymore is gonna add any value to this thread. Let's learn to agree to disagree and enjoy different views presented here at the forum.

[pavi]

Originally Posted by Santoshbhat

I am subscribed to the GT TSI official thread and the words 'blown away' are used quite often by people who drive it for the first time. I like fast cars and have owned/ currently own powerful cars by Indian standards and still get pretty impressed by the GT TSI whenever I get a chance to drive it. The car does have it's shortcomings no doubt, but so do all other cars in this list. Unfortunately we don't have proper hot hatches in our market and our reference point is the regular hatches that we have here. Compared to these, the Polo GT TSI is pretty hot if you ask me.

I think the ‘blown away’ part is strictly based on the ‘speed’ at which the shift happens in a DSG and I don’t think I am missing something here. It’s natural for people to get blown away with exciting inventions. Even I am blown away by the concept of self driving cars, does that make those ‘enthusiast cars’.

[Santoshbhat]

Originally Posted by PrasannaDhana

Quoting my previous post since you seemed to have missed it.
I stated my opinion about the GT Tsi. My opinion was formed after driving both the cars to their limits and not after reading someone else's ownership review of it.

I am not forcing you to agree that my opinion is true and yours isn't.

You are missing my point buddy . I am not questioning your vote for the Abarth, instead I am disagreeing with your point that the GT TSI is not worthy of the hot hatch tag. All I am saying is that for this poll the Polo GT TSI is a worthy nominee. If we had cars like the Civic Type R or the Ford Focus RS or any of the GTI's in this list then yes, the GT TSI or the any of the other cars in this poll don't deserve to be here. But given the options in our market, these are the cars that we have to choose from.

Originally Posted by PrasannaDhana

Let's learn to agree to disagree and enjoy different views presented here at the forum.

Exactly

Originally Posted by pavi

I think the ‘blown away’ part is strictly based on the ‘speed’ at which the shift happens in a DSG and I don’t think I am missing something here. It’s natural for people to get blown away with exciting inventions. Even I am blown away by the concept of self driving cars, does that make those ‘enthusiast cars’.

Like Prasanna says, let's just agree to disagree very quickly.

[Durango Dude]

The hatch that looks real hot to me is the New Swift: it's a real head turner, with great performance on tap in a light and nimble body.

[GrandTourer]

TBHPians,

Slightly OT.
I just came across this statistics on Autoportal.

This doesn't seem right, does it.

37% people here are voting for the abarth, and there aren't any sales. I doubt it.