[DRIV3R]

Originally Posted by GrandTourer

This doesn't seem right, does it.

You have answered yourself. I know quite a few in my circle itself who have picked up an Abarth in some of the months quoted.

Originally Posted by Santoshbhat

Your scooter and sports bike analogy is a bit too much of an exaggeration. I suggest you read the ownership threads of chase_nt of the GT TSI and the Abarth. He has written very passionately about both cars like a true enthusiast.

No offence and with due respect, I would not take someone who used the Abarth very minimally (3k kms?) and mostly within the city for commute very seriously with regards to opinions on the car. IIRC the only highway drive done by the said member was immediately after he took delivery of the car. IMHO, it is a classic case of requirements-product mismatch leading to dissatisfaction ultimately.

As many others have pointed out, the engine and GB are the best bits in the Polo TSI. Rest of it is the same plain vanilla Polo, and I mean the steering, suspension, brakes - All that matter to an enthusiast and basic requirements for a hot hatch.

The EPS is fine but nowhere near the precision and feedback of the Abarth, the suspension is more comfort oriented and gets unsettled easily on undulations, and the TVS Girling brakes have lots of brake fade and are nowhere near the bite of the Abarth. Yes, the ergonomics are perfect, the DSG is lightning quick, but these come second after the suspension, steering and brakes which essentially affect handling - atleast for me. We are not even talking about the power for now.

And let’s not forget that we are comparing stock vs stock. Add a remap, upgrade the brakes and suspension to the TSI which then makes it a tough choice between the two; but it is out of context in this thread, really.

[GrandTourer]

Originally Posted by GrandTourer

TBHPians,


37% people here are voting for the abarth, and there aren't any sales.

Actually saw the Sales figure for 2018 thread. There were 11 units sold in Oct and 13 in Nov for the Abarth.
That's a lot of hype for a car that sells in 2 digits annually throughout India. I think that should be a factor for the vote as well. Otherwise, the Mini or the GTI should also be considered for the vote if performance is the only factor.

[vibbs]

Is the Abarth even manufactured now? I heard you need to order one these days or pick up one manufactured months back?

I mean we have a poll for best enthusiasts car, and the top voted car hardly sells (er manufactured?)!!
Says a lot.

[DRIV3R]

Originally Posted by vibbs

Is the Abarth even manufactured now? I heard you need to order one these days or pick up one manufactured months back?

I mean we have a poll for best enthusiasts car, and the top voted car hardly sells (er manufactured?)!!
Says a lot.

Yes they are. In fact, it is the only car I have seen FCA actively manufacturing over past 2 quarters atleast.

Here is the figure manufactured in Nov 18 for Dec 18 floating stock.

[octane1002]

Honestly, the only thing going for the GT TSi is that gem of a gearbox.Look beyond that and it has quite a few shortcomings. A hot hatch needs to feel like one by cohesion of steering, braking, power. In the GT TSi, besides the quick gearshifts, there is little to praise.

As far as sales numbers go, it is sad that the people don't vote with their wallet. But that's the story of any performance oriented product in India barring the Skoda RS lately.

To put things into perspective, the Abarth offers the same engine that one gets in the 595 Abarth, with the added bonus of a manual (agreed the shifts need bit of time to get used to, but nonetheless!). At 1/3 rd the price.Not only this, it is almost there in terms of power compared to the Polo GTi. At half the price. Minus the iffy 7 speed DSG. If that isn't value proposotion for an enthusiast, nothing is.

[Arjun Reddy]

Let us put an end to this debate.Abarth Punto vs Polo TSI.

This is for all the cricket fans.

If Geoffrey Boycott was reviewing this car, " my mom could have driven it to the super market. "

[Starfire]

Originally Posted by octane1002

At 1/3 rd the price.Not only this, it is almost there in terms of power compared to the Polo GTi. At half the price. Minus the iffy 7 speed DSG. If that isn't value proposotion for an enthusiast, nothing is.

I'm sorry what? With all due respect the Abarth Punto and the Polo GTI are NOT equal.

Lets get a few facts straight, the GTI has:

1) 44 horses more produced and that too at higher revs. No tapering off power at the top end.
2) A superior suspension set up.
3) One of the worlds best gearbox with 8 milisecond shifts. Iffy or not, no double clutching or rev matching can beat it. Its just not humanly possible. PERIOD.
4) Launch control can be activated.
5) 2 secs faster to 100.
6) 40km/hr higher top speed and so on.
7) Acceleration and dynamics that makes the drivers face go . And so on.

Had we been comparing the GTI with the Abarth 500, it would have been a different story. The GTI, the 500 and the Cooper S come in a different league all together.

[theredliner]

Looking at some of the responses, I think electric cars would be considered the best hot hatches of all time as they have instant response with no 'turbo lag', even quicker than 'lightning fast' transmissions due to the absence of one, absolutely effortless to drive in a mall's parking lot and so on. The feel and the pleasure of driving be damned!

Anyway, with Tata not showing any interest in advertising/sending TD cars, the JTP too would probably go the Abarth way and it'd probably be the last affordable spiced up IC engined hatch we'd ever see before we go electric.

[reignofchaos]

Originally Posted by octane1002

To put things into perspective, the Abarth offers the same engine that one gets in the 595 Abarth, with the added bonus of a manual (agreed the shifts need bit of time to get used to, but nonetheless!). At 1/3 rd the price.Not only this, it is almost there in terms of power compared to the Polo GTi. At half the price. Minus the iffy 7 speed DSG. If that isn't value proposotion for an enthusiast, nothing is.

Have you driven a GTI to comment about it? That car is in a completely different league. Just to give you a reality check about the desi Abarth which is a hack job and a bone stock GT TSi, the mmst times recorded by ACI are in the 2min 16s range. The GTI is 2 min 5 second. It is a no contest!

I really envy the folks who managed to snag a GTI under 20 lacs when VW were liquidating their stocks end of last year. What a deal it was!

[octane1002]

Originally Posted by reignofchaos

Have you driven a GTI to comment about it? That car is in a completely different league. Just to give you a reality check about the desi Abarth which is a hack job and a bone stock GT TSi, the mmst times recorded by ACI are in the 2min 16s range. The GTI is 2 min 5 second. It is a no contest!

I really envy the folks who managed to snag a GTI under 20 lacs when VW were liquidating their stocks end of last year. What a deal it was!

Hi, please don't misconstrue my comment to counter it with track timings etc. I was offerring perspective on what the Punto Abarth offered for half the price of GTi. Or let's put it that for the price of 2 Abarths, the GTi better be that good.At the minimum.

Yes, I have driven both the GTi and Abarth, not on a track though. My daily drives are V6 and V8 FSi cars from the VW stable.Hope that takes care of the credentials to 'comment'.

[chase_nt]

Originally Posted by PrasannaDhana

Well, suppose a guy who was using a scooter, sells it, buys a sports bike and then sells it and again buys a scooter, does that mean the scooter is hotter/more fun than the sports bike?

I'd like to point out that I've probably owned and driven more cars than the average team bhp member on this forum. I've just been silently following the discussions on this thread because I don't like to be drawn into arguments with people but the above comment made me step in. The following are my views having owned both the cars back to back and I don't intend to offend any of the Fiat/Abarth fans on the forum. There's a saying "TO EACH HIS OWN", so here is what I feel.

Let me be brutally honest in my assessment of the GT TSI and Abarth Punto having owned both the cars for more than 2 years each. I purchased the above vehicles solely based on team bhp reviews as there were no test drive vehicles available in my city. The first time I took delivery of the GT TSI and drove it home I was wondering why the vehicle supposedly has just 105ps of power but feels much more powerful. However the first time I took delivery of the Abarth Punto and drove it home I said to myself "how can a 145 bhp hatchback feel so slow"? This was the first thought that entered my mind on driving the above vehicles for the first time. The moment I drove the GT TSI I felt exhilarated, everything felt awesome right from the power delivery to the gear shifts to the turbo whistle it just made the hair on the back of my neck stand up. When I drove the Abarth for the first time none of the above happened. I felt like I had made a really bad decision purchasing the Abarth because the GT TSI felt a hundred times better in every aspect except the braking. Having driven the GT TSI and Abarth around on city/highway/ghats over more than two years of ownership here is my humble assessment of how I would rate both cars in each condition:

GT TSI: City driving-Excellent, Highways-Excellent, Ghats-Decent
Abarth: City driving-Terrible, Highways-Excellent, Ghats-Excellent

To me the GT TSI may not be able to beat the Abarth in a drag from standstill but its still pretty close for a vehicle that has a whopping 40ps power disadvantage. The Abarth may be able to outclass a GT TSI on a ghat road but how many times are we actually going to drive on a ghat road or a track to warrant purchasing an Abarth?? A GT TSI holds its own on a highway against most cars and in fact I had more fun driving the GT TSI on highways rather than the Abarth (personal preference). When it comes to use in a city the GT TSI just totally trumps the Abarth because even the Abarth cannot match the GT TSI's acceleration in kickdown in fact no car in this shootout can match GT TSI's kickdown acceleration times

The Abarth suffers from poor low end torque which is a nightmare to contend with unless you always keep the engine on the boil all the time. Heck the Abarth with 145 freaking horses under the hood begins to knock in second gear if you slow down to around 10km/hr while crossing speed breakers in the city which other low powered cars such as the Swift would be able to clear easily without requiring a downshift. Things such as this are not what one expects when they spend their money and purchase a so called "hot hatch". The Abarth suffers from several other flaws such as the horrible 5 speed gear box which is not what an enthusiast would expect in a 145 bhp hatchback, the intercooler which heat soaks and robs you of some performance on a hot and humid day etc. Fiat should've gone the whole hog and given us enthusiasts a proper Abarth Punto with a 6 speed transmission, a proper intercooler which was designed for an Abarth and not a cut and paste job from a Fiat Linea TJET even if it meant that it would have cost us a couple of lakhs more instead of giving the so called enthusiasts a "half baked product".

I'd also like to point out that most people who have voted on this poll may not have even driven the Abarth Punto let alone owned one. I remember a similar poll was conducted on team bhp when the Abarth Punto was launched and it was a poll between which is a better hot hatch the Abarth or the GT TSI/GT TDI. Most people voted for the Abarth Punto rather than the GT TSI and I was one of them (back then I owned the first gen GT TSI) even though I had never driven the Abarth at that point. I just got carried away by the sound of 145 bhp, all wheel disc brakes and manual transmission however after I purchased the Abarth Punto a similar poll was conducted on team bhp once again as the Baleno RS was launched and even though I was owning the Abarth Punto my vote went for the GT TSI. That was because I experienced the Abarth Punto and it just didn't meet my expectations. To be very frank purchasing the Abarth Punto was not a good decision on my part as I was carried away by the guile of a half baked product. Its a good car but not a great car and definitely not an all round performer like the GT TSI is.

[DRIV3R]

Originally Posted by reignofchaos

Have you driven a GTI to comment about it? That car is in a completely different league. Just to give you a reality check about the desi Abarth which is a hack job and a bone stock GT TSi, the mmst times recorded by ACI are in the 2min 16s range. The GTI is 2 min 5 second. It is a no contest!

I really envy the folks who managed to snag a GTI under 20 lacs when VW were liquidating their stocks end of last year. What a deal it was!

Since ACI is being quoted, just wanted to highlight one of their articles which is very much relevant to this discussion.

Quoting ACI below:

Let’s put it this way, if we were comparing the standard versions of these cars, the Punto would come dead last. And while sensible things like build quality and practicality are important here too, performance and excitement are even more so in this segment. So, though it’s the most expensive, and it has its fair share of shortcomings as a car, the thrills it serves let it race ahead of the others. While the other two are merely warmed up, the Abarth is a proper hot hatch, and that’s why it’s our pick.

Source




One of the shortcomings, i.e expensive price tag is also no longer valid for folks wanting to buy one or bought them in the past two quarters atleast. There is a 1.8-2 L INR discount on them and it is retailing currently at 10L OTR in Bangalore. So it makes things pretty obvious.

[speedguy]

Mind said Abarth heart said Tiago.
Voted for Tiago. Simply because I wanted to encourage such an honest attempt so that we can see Nexon JTP on road & not only in Auto Expo.

[theredliner]

Originally Posted by chase_nt

The Abarth suffers from poor low end torque which is a nightmare to contend with unless you always keep the engine on the boil all the time. Heck the Abarth with 145 freaking horses under the hood begins to knock in second gear if you slow down to around 10km/hr while crossing speed breakers in the city which other low powered cars such as the Swift would be able to clear easily without requiring a downshift.

I'm sorry, but you had a really wrong understanding and expectation from a budget, performance oriented single turbo petrol engine with a reasonably big turbo. It should have been obvious that the boost threshold RPM would be a bit high in the 145 HP Abarth as it uses a bigger turbocharger than a standard base T-Jet. The 180HP Esseesse with Garrett 1446 turbocharger starts to spool only by 2500 RPM and has even worse drivability. The world famous drivers' car WRX STI has very high boost threshold and peak torque comes only at 4000 RPM. It should have even worse drivability than Abarth at 2000 RPM as it makes only about 40 WHP at that engine speed, in spite of having 305+ peak BHP. Does it make it a less hotter car than the Abarth or the GT TSI? We all know the answer to that.

For effortless city use, sub 70HP cars with tiny turbochargers like Etios diesel or Micra diesel would be far better bet than Abarth Punto or S-Cross 1.6. We should really stop getting confused between high peak power and great low RPM drivability. With single turbo cars without electric assistance, the two will have to be inversely proportional to each other.

Originally Posted by Starfire

I'm sorry what? With all due respect the Abarth Punto and the Polo GTI are NOT equal.

Lets get a few facts straight, the GTI has:

1) 44 horses more produced and that too at higher revs. No tapering off power at the top end.
2) A superior suspension set up.
5) 2 secs faster to 100.
7) Acceleration and dynamics that makes the drivers face go . And so on.

The Abarth also has similar advantages over the GT TSI (not GTI) as quoted above, but I find it funny that you completely ignore all those and focus only on its shortcomings and try to project them as equal in all other fields. The most important point is that the Abarth is available at a cheaper price than GT currently and one doesn't have to pay twice to get those advantages.

[chase_nt]

Originally Posted by DRIV3R

No offence and with due respect, I would not take someone who used the Abarth very minimally (3k kms?) and mostly within the city for commute very seriously with regards to opinions on the car. IIRC the only highway drive done by the said member was immediately after he took delivery of the car. IMHO, it is a classic case of requirements-product mismatch leading to dissatisfaction ultimately.

I use all my cars minimally as I am a retired recluse. I sold my 2013 GT TSI with 4000 Km on the odometer where as my Abarth had 3200 Km when I sold it. I owned the first GT TSI for 2 years and 8 months where as I owned the Abarth for 2 years and 2 months. I used both cars almost equally on highways/ghats and within the city. Just because I use my cars sparingly it doesn't mean that I am not an enthusiast or have no idea about the cars that I drive. If that were the case I wouldn't go out and purchase cars such as the GT or the Abarth for that matter. A true enthusiast doesn't need to drive cars for tens of thousands of kilometers to gauge a car and what it is. All a true enthusiast needs is a few minutes behind the wheel of car to know about it.