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Old 4th October 2020, 09:18   #16
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Default Re: My 1st Automatic Car - Budget 11 lakhs

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Originally Posted by dhruvky94 View Post
[*]Although I am preferring Automatic since I live in Bangalore and the traffic here is hell, if people say Manual is not too hectic, I can get manual too[*]Will be used 90% time for city/office commute. Highway trips would not be too frequent but would be an aspect.
I think you should stick to the automatics.

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So I loved Baleno Alpha CVT and wanted to buy it since a long time. The cvt transmission felt amazing and the pickup was great. Rubber banding effect was also less.
After driving it my opinion is the exact opposite.

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I started looking at Grand i10 NIOS AMT.
It's quite sluggish.

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I must say, the car looks like a nice overall package.
I agree.

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My only concern is there are some features missing from this car compared to Baleno and the looks are not that great.
Hyundai is notorious for this. The original i10 had a rear wiper for the Magna, Sports and Asta. The facelift deleted it from the Magna. The 2nd gen (Grand i10) deleted it from the Sportz. And now the Nios has it only on the Asta (O).

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Also, I have heard AMTs are bad for bumper to bumper traffic but I found this AMT to be pretty good. What I don't know about is how is the sheet quality? Is the car stable at high speeds? Does AMT worsen with time?
AMT has been working fine for me for over 5 years.

Quote:
I also tried Venue DCT and absolutely loved it but then I heard terrible things about DCT transmission and how it heats up in heavy traffic. I don't see much point in getting auto if you can't drive comfortably in bumper to bumper. Is it still the case with new venues? Sales person said the issue is sorted out.
If that is the case, I will book venue.
Take these "terrible things" with a pinch of salt.

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Originally Posted by Guna View Post
You must also test drive the BS6 Polo AT (either Highhline or GT) whenever it is available. Cramped rear seat is the only shortcoming I see.
Other than the dated looks it's the best AT available today.

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Originally Posted by clevermax View Post
I would stay far away from Baleno CVT. The car is under-powered, at least for my driving needs. That, coupled with a CVT transmission, would be quite boring to drive.
Absolutely. My +1 to that.

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The only good thing I have heard about Baleno CVT is that it gives decent fuel efficiency.
Are you sure?

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Originally Posted by gautamkhadse View Post
I know , this is something that no one has suggested but if you're ready to consider Suzuki 4 speed AT boxes, you should also try out the XL6 AT .
In addition also see the S-Cross auto. Same Engine - Gearbox combo but much better built than the XL6. I just checked out both yesterday. There are some things better in the XL6 and some things better in the S-Cross. Depends on personal needs and preferences. My pick here would be the S-Cross.

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Also, have a Nexon AMT and I can't talk enough about this beauty. If you get used to the slight jerky nature of AMT. This car is a perfect car to drive in the city and on the highways, it's even better than our king. It's like a diesel locomotive which just keeps pulling even after high speeds. It's the best considering the cost and the VFM factor is just amazing.
The Nexon EV is even better I hear.

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Originally Posted by dhruvky94 View Post
Is AMT really that bad?
Not at all.

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Originally Posted by Subby View Post
I suggest you to prepare checklist with maximum positive ticks before you finalise your decision.
This is the best suggestion in the entire thread.
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Old 4th October 2020, 09:22   #17
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Default Re: My 1st Automatic Car - Budget 11 lakhs

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Originally Posted by RoadMonkey View Post
It was a blow out in favour of the VW Polo. I don't want to be unfair to the Jazz, but I felt like a fool comparing the two cars.
Well that was expected. A Polo will undoubtedly excite you more than Jazz in a 10 km test drive. Only when you have to live with it for years will you start to realise the actual drawbacks in terms of space, practicality, comfort and reliability.

As already advised above, you must test drive the Amaze diesel CVT. While it's not an outright performer, torque advantage of the diesel makes it much more tractable at low RPMs.

The actual reason why you started this search was for the lacking safety levels and low slung seating of the Baleno. I doubt any of the cars you're considering will fulfill both aspects at once. Stretch for compact SUVs like the Brezza, Nexon or Ecosport even if it means you've to forgo your automatic requirement. Cars of this segment have decent engine output, good space management, high seating position and a proven safety record. IMHO a manual compact SUV will be a good compromise between your requirements and budget.

Last edited by self_driven : 4th October 2020 at 09:26.
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Old 4th October 2020, 10:32   #18
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Default Re: My 1st Automatic Car - Budget 11 lakhs

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Originally Posted by self_driven View Post
Well that was expected. A Polo will undoubtedly excite you more than Jazz in a 10 km test drive. Only when you have to live with it for years will you start to realise the actual drawbacks in terms of space, practicality, comfort and reliability.

As already advised above, you must test drive the Amaze diesel CVT. While it's not an outright performer, torque advantage of the diesel makes it much more tractable at low RPMs.

The actual reason why you started this search was for the lacking safety levels and low slung seating of the Baleno. I doubt any of the cars you're considering will fulfill both aspects at once. Stretch for compact SUVs like the Brezza, Nexon or Ecosport even if it means you've to forgo your automatic requirement. Cars of this segment have decent engine output, good space management, high seating position and a proven safety record. IMHO a manual compact SUV will be a good compromise between your requirements and budget.
As I mentioned, low slung itself isn't the problem - as was addressed in that thread. I've strictly been told by two doctors to stop driving a manual or I'll face serious problems down the road. I don't want to risk that. I would definitely prefer an Ecosport over the Polo but unfortunately I cannot stretch that much. Polo itself is a stretch for me, we'd originally thought of Tiago.

Dad does not like Amaze and we hold manual very dear to our hearts. We might be switching to an AT but we need the manual mode and Amaze misses out on that. I wish I could go for something else, but this is the best in the budget. I don't mind maintaining a car as long as it can be maintained, and by the look of it, the TSI 1 litre is fine if you take preemptive care. The AT is a slushbox from Aisin (Toyota). I'd have preferred the Honda peace of mind, but I'd challenge anyone questioning my observations to take Jazz CVT for a spin in a densely packed highway. It's completely anemic and doesn't inspire confidence.

I've previously said that I'm not a sucker for performance from my cars, I drive sedately. I'll never take Polo over 100. I don't need a fast car, I do need a car capable of reasonable acceleration in fast moving traffic.

Honestly, I'd take an AMT with a manual mode over a CVT based on my limited experience.

Edit: The more I think about the, Jazz would be a perfect car quite cruisng over open highways. If I was living where I was ~6 months ago, I'd pick the Jazz over Polo.

Last edited by RoadMonkey : 4th October 2020 at 10:49.
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Old 5th October 2020, 20:43   #19
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Default Re: Automatic Shootout : Honda Jazz vs VW Polo

Another update: I had my heart and mind set on the VW Polo. I loved the way it drives, but the concern about owning a VW was there in the back of my mind. A reliable mechanic is not always available to me due to the constant moving. The dealerships are at times ~40-100kms away.

That, coupled with my parents' insistence on the Jazz (they have their hearts set on it) and my mother expressing her discontentment with the comfort on offer in the Polo at the back made me reconsider my decision to go for the Polo. To address this dilemma, I called the Honda dealership for another Test Drive.

This time, I made sure to take a longer test drive during the day time and address all my doubts and concerns about the driveability of the Jazz. My previous test drive was at a very busy time and I may have focused more on the traffic than driving itself.

Observations from Test Drive 2.0 of the Jazz CVT -

There's a slight but noticeable growl the engine makes when it starts to pick up the speed initially. It throws you off if you're not used to this - and I'm not. I expect the engine to pick up speed instantly as the noise indicates in my Baleno, but it does not. However, you get used to it after a while and almost becomes a non-issue. An AT is an absolute delight over a manual in traffic. You've to drive an automatic to realise just good it feels to not have to worry about stalling, shifting, slipping the clutch in traffic. The engine does pick up speeds and it's best to ignore the RPM readings in the D mode and focus more on how it drives. It drives acceptably well and the engine does pick up cruising speeds without much struggle. It does feel a touch slower than my Baleno but that's to be expected. (side note: the speed alert when crossing 80kmph is more muted in the Jazz than the Polo)

My previous observations about the S mode and paddle shifters were completely wrong. That's where the CVT comes into its own! If you need to make aggressive maneuvers on the highway, the paddle shifters will not disappoint. It's definitely good enough for my kind of driving. I won't say the engine/gearbox combination is good per se, but I'd still rate it better than my previous observations. I may have made a few judgment errors that day.

Maybe it was my fresh memory of the Polo's TD which was spoiling my experience with the Jazz. Jazz is a fine car for normal driving and paddle shifters do add a little bit of fun to it. The lack of any tint whatsoever on the windows' glass is a bummer. At the end of the day, my family's comfort over the long, long rides we have to do is more important to me than the additional bit of fun I might have while driving the VW Polo.
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Old 5th October 2020, 21:35   #20
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Hope you test drove the 2020 Jazz. As a happy owner, I can assure you that it is comfy and roomier than other cars in same price range. The paddle shifter are untouched in our city driving. And I feel the S mode will take care of obstinate hills. Given your knee issue, I feel the Polo can be cramped for both passengers and driver. In the Jazz, (and other Hondas too) even with the front seats pushed all the way back, a 5'9" or even taller passenger will still find it comfortable. You will find lack of (a) head rest in rear seat and (b) lack of rear a/c vent a huge minus, but that is a small price. The strong a/c more than makes up for lack of the rear vent.

You should pay some attention to the top end variant (VX) of Jazz CVT. I recall it has some extra adjustments for driver seat over the V variant. I dont remember exactly, I may be wrong and maybe both variants have height adjustable driver seats.
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Old 5th October 2020, 21:51   #21
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Default Re: Automatic Shootout : Honda Jazz vs VW Polo

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Originally Posted by RoadMonkey View Post
Observations from Test Drive 2.0 of the Jazz CVT -There's a slight but noticeable growl the engine makes when it starts to pick up the speed initially. It throws you off if you're not used to this - and I'm not. I expect the engine to pick up speed instantly as the noise indicates in my Baleno, but it does not.
I think you'll need to get used to the CVT. Your inputs should be gentle and not pedal to metal as you do with a manual. CVT rewards those with a light foot with a smooth drive and enhanced fuel efficency to boot. It's best enjoyed in the bump and grind of the urban environs as well as on the highway. It's like meditation if you get the hang of it. I have a TC also, my sons, Grand i10 Automatic. I prefer the CVT (City) delivers better fuel efficiency than the Grand i10 Automatic.
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Old 5th October 2020, 22:25   #22
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Default Re: Automatic Shootout : Honda Jazz vs VW Polo

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Originally Posted by BaCkSeAtDrIVeR View Post
Hope you test drove the 2020 Jazz...

You should pay some attention to the top end variant (VX) of Jazz CVT. I recall it has some extra adjustments for driver seat over the V variant
Yes, I did drive the 2020 Jazz.

There's a ZX variant now and I'm considering that. For a car one keeps for long, I believe one should stretch for the top end.

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Originally Posted by Durango Dude View Post
I think you'll need to get used to the CVT. Your inputs should be gentle and not pedal to metal as you do with a manual.
As odd as it may sound for someone at t-bhp, I've not done pedal to the metal more than once in my life. That 'once' was a long, long time ago. My experience with the odd effect I mentioned was with a medium accelerator input. Not too gentle but nothing aggressive. As I said, it becomes a non issue over time.

I did consider a used City CVT but my parents vetoed that decision. We live in cramped cities and carrying around a massive boot isn't the most convenient of options.
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Old 6th October 2020, 06:56   #23
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Default Re: Automatic Shootout : Honda Jazz vs VW Polo

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Originally Posted by rajivr1612 View Post
Also Jazz misses out on Hill Hold, that's one of my concerns since my wife also plans to drive.
The cvt does a great job in holding the car on uphills. I have tried it on some of the steepest mall ramps and hills around Kerala. It held much better than nexon AMT and baleno cvt during my test drives. So rollback is no more a concern in most average inclines.
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Originally Posted by RoadMonkey View Post
Observations from Test Drive 2.0 of the Jazz CVT -
Maybe it was my fresh memory of the Polo's TD which was spoiling my experience with the Jazz. Jazz is a fine car for normal driving and paddle shifters do add a little bit of fun to it.
It was indeed the TSI with TC(best under 10L range) experience that made Jazz feel so bad in comparison. Last year while buying I didn’t even consider the jazz initially but when long term reliability, availability of service, smooth engine transmission combo , safety and space started taking precedence it somehow ended up in my garage. Its a matter of getting used to and you can easily chuck the car around in b2b traffic. Even I felt will use paddles for the love of manual but trust me in last 1.5 years(10,500kms) maybe once or twice I needed it in the city. They are better enjoyed on the highway.

Good choice going for the top end. If you don’t change cars often , u should always get the top end else within few years you start craving for the features you could have got for 50k-60k extra. All the best

Last edited by SoumenD : 6th October 2020 at 06:58.
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Old 6th October 2020, 08:52   #24
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Default Re: Automatic Shootout : Honda Jazz vs VW Polo

Quick question. Have you considered the Ford Freestyle?
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Old 6th October 2020, 09:09   #25
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Default Re: Automatic Shootout : Honda Jazz vs VW Polo

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Quick question. Have you considered the Ford Freestyle?
Not available in AT. As the thread title goes, it's a comparison of two AT hatchbacks. There's nothing I'd love more than owning a Ford, unfortunately EcoSport AT is waaay outside my budget.
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Old 6th October 2020, 09:21   #26
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Default Re: Automatic Shootout : Honda Jazz vs VW Polo

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Background: I currently own a Baleno 1.2 P Zeta MT and have previously expressed concerns about driving a "low slung" manual. While those have been alleviated with a simple cushion, my doctor's recommendation after looking at the X-rays of my left knee remains - that I should stop driving altogether. I obviously can not do that, so I consulted whether an AT will help and he said it will be better than wear & tear of the knee joint due to clutch.

This, along with the safety and build quality concerns that have built up over my ownership period of the Baleno has left me looking for better alternatives in an automatic avatar.
I know I'm going way off your shortlist here & you might not appreciate my suggestion.
  • You plan to keep the car for longer than 10 years. So it might be okay to stretch the budget a bit & get a slightly costlier car that covers more bases in your requirements.
  • You intend to travel with family - so rear seat space & comfort is actually vital. I think the POLO really gets disqualified here. Even a smaller Tiago is better in this department to be honest. Jazz is almost unmatched in this area.
  • You want a car that is automatic & NOT low slung like your current car. Both - Polo & Jazz - are low slung cars more or less.
  • Why not look at the Suzuki Vitara BREZZA Automatic?
  • Except for the rattle I think it will cover all your requirements. And it also has a respectable 4 star safety rating in GNCAP. Space, ingress, egress for seniors is very good in the Brezza. Has a tried and tested engine-gearbox combination & in theory the smartHybrid also aids fuel efficiency a bit. Coming from a Baleno - you'd feel at home immediately in the Brezza. Higher seating is good for all in routine use & the car really looks handsome even with its age.

Last edited by Reinhard : 6th October 2020 at 09:26.
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Old 6th October 2020, 09:23   #27
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Default Re: Automatic Shootout : Honda Jazz vs VW Polo

This is the exact dilemma we had last year, except the Polo came with the 1.2 in it at that time. Polo was indeed a slightly superior vehicle but we still actually went for the Jazz because VAG Reliability/Service and also a heftier discount on an already cheaper car.

We eliminated other options from this segment because they are mostly tin cans.
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Old 6th October 2020, 09:29   #28
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Default Re: My 1st Automatic Car - Budget 11 lakhs

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Then came the TD. I drove the VW Polo on the Chandigarh-Delhi highway and wow! It felt amazing, composed, glued to the ground. I don't drive fast, but I couldn't keep my speeds in check initially. When I thought I was doing 50, I was actually doing close to 80. The acceleration from 40-80 is EXTREMELY useful in the highway traffic. You need it on a busy highway. When I was driving the Polo, I found navigating through the highway an absolute breeze. I came out mighty impressed indeed. I was starting to inch back to Polo but I wanted to keep an open mind w.r.t Jazz since my mother had her heart set on it.
If you liked the Polo very much then I would suggest you look at the Skoda Rapid Rider Plus AT as well, same engine, same TC gearbox and more room in the rear seat! I would have suggested the Vento as well but it’s only available in the highline trim.

Also where has the Figo’s TC auto gone which was rumoured to launch in September?? What a missed opportunity Ford

Last edited by CEF_Beasts : 6th October 2020 at 09:37.
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Old 6th October 2020, 09:30   #29
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Default Re: Automatic Shootout : Honda Jazz vs VW Polo

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[*]Why not look at the Suzuki Vitara BREZZA Automatic?
Very apt justification however I recommend the Urban Cruiser

Polo is a low slung car and best for a family of 2 Adults and 2 Kids. It is better built than many other hatchbacks (barring Altroz) and it is more premium as well. There are rumours of Altroz Turbo Petrol with DCT so I would suggest wait for few more weeks before you invest your hard earned money. Altorz fulfills all your requirements and is a newer car than Polo and Jazz.
If you wish to get your hands on the new car immediately then as suggested, invest few lakhs more and go for the Urban Cruiser. It has a better front fascia than Brezza and you will have a slightly better after sales service by Toyota.

Last edited by VWAllstar : 6th October 2020 at 09:31.
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Old 6th October 2020, 10:34   #30
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Default Re: Automatic Shootout : Honda Jazz vs VW Polo

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I know I'm going way off your shortlist here & you might not appreciate my suggestion.
No sir! Any input is welcome. This is not a decision one can make over and over again and I appreciate everyone's take on things.
Quote:
You want a car that is automatic & NOT low slung like your current car. Both - Polo & Jazz - are low slung cars more or less.
My concerns about a low slung car were addressed in that thread. The problem was the ergonomics and not the fact that the car was low slung. I think with the help of an automatic, I shall face little to no problems. Sorting out ergonomics with the help of accessories and cushions has already done away with 90% of the problem I faced in the Baleno. The 10% remains the stress on the knee, which an AT shall take care of.
Quote:
Why not look at the Suzuki Vitara BREZZA Automatic?
As you pointed out, shelling out a bit more for a car one intends to keep in the long run is good, but that's the thing, we're already stretching beyond the limits we're financially comfortable with. The search for a new AT hatch began with the Tiago. There were concerns about the driveability and Tata's after sales. The max we could stretch our budget comfortably was till 9L. Then the Jazz came and we mulled hard about whether to consider it or not. We put our finances together, liquidated a few investments and so on. Spending a penny over the amount quoted for the Jazz would be putting things under considerable strain. I would prefer a C-SUV, yes, so would my father, but they're completely out of our budget.

That said, the AT box in the Brezza is uninspiring. A 4 speed AT box? It's just a downer after spending close to 12 big ones. Dad loves EcoSport, it reminds him of his Ritz. We'd love to stretch for that, but unfortunately we can not. The pursuit for a car from a segment above is an endless one. If we start thinking of C-SUVs, the thought of a Creta might cross our heads. Got to stop somewhere.

Last edited by RoadMonkey : 6th October 2020 at 10:36.
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