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Old 25th November 2021, 13:26   #31
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Default Re: Wanted | A compact, smart, manual transmission second car | ~10 lakh budget

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Originally Posted by noopster View Post
You've nailed it. A simple car + engine + gearbox that will still retain its value till resale is an attractive proposition!

I confess I wasn't thinking of the FE aspect at all. But how bad can it be on a small car? Like the neighbourhood Mumbai mechanic will tell you, "Saab, sab gaadi das deta hai" (all cars return 10 km/lit).
I would suggest that you hold on to the Vento for a couple of years more if possible, especially if changing the car right away is not a necessity. With the shift to EVs slowly but surely gathering momentum, you might find that your new ICE based car has become obsolete in the next 2-3 years.

Coming to the fuel efficiency part, TC petrols are too thirsty - my friend's Sonet gives 12 on the MID on highways and 9-10 in the city (probably much less than that in real life). NA petrols with the exception of Maruti's 1.2 K series are again too slow and boring and not great for highway drives. (With Marutis the performance comes at the cost of high speed stability and safety, though, plus the cars they make now are not built to last)

BS6 diesels have their own gremlins what with the DPF issues.

In case you still want to go ahead with your purchase and want to stick to an MT car, my choice would be Altroz turbo petrol if fuel efficiency is not a major criterion or the Ignis because of its awesome NA engine and comparatively better build quality (for a Maruti) if FE is important.
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Old 25th November 2021, 13:39   #32
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Default Re: Wanted | A compact, smart, manual transmission second car | ~10 lakh budget

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Originally Posted by noopster View Post
In just a couple of years our eldest will start driving and I want her to learn her chops on a standard H. Call it soppy sentimentality about an era that has bypassed us but I still think "Can you handle a stick?" needs to be answered with a confident "Yes!"
Hello, I agree with you and did the same thing when my son started driving in 2019. He learnt driving at a school in a Santro MT. We had an 2008 i10 AT which my wife wouldn't drive(read scary Bangalore traffic) and my son was finding it boring to drive. He used to beg his friend to lend his Polo P MT. That's when we decided to sell off the i10. We picked a used 2017 Ford Figo TDCi Titanium MT and both of us love driving it. I mean like I was telling myself, let him enjoy the MT during his initial days of driving since we can always switch to AT when needed.
But if I had to buy a new car spending close to 10 lacs, I would never buy an MT. It would be a modern proven AT(mostly likely a TC).
In my opinion, I think you should let your daughter drive a used MT car till she picks up the art of maneuvering the crazy city traffic. Once she is confident you can always pick your choice of an AT car. Its just my thought.
Happy car hunting.
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Old 25th November 2021, 13:59   #33
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Default Re: Wanted | A compact, smart, manual transmission second car | ~10 lakh budget

Altroz diesel - a thorough all rounder which can be very very economical to run too

If you don't care about fuel efficiency much, the top choice will be the Polo TSI MT. That engine and 6 speed MT are blissful to use.

Since safety is an important priority here, I would stay away from the ignis.

Last edited by PrasannaDhana : 25th November 2021 at 14:01.
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Old 25th November 2021, 14:17   #34
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Default Re: Wanted | A compact, smart, manual transmission second car | ~10 lakh budget

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Originally Posted by noopster View Post
... it's to be driven primarily by a teenager and her equally discerning mom...
Forgot to mention earlier, given this will be your daughter's first car soon, what size and ergonomics she's comfortable with should probably be the deciding factor? I'm assuming your significant other is a seasoned driver and will adjust relatively easier.

Cars are getting bigger, and some of the premium hatches are now similar dimensions to previous-gen sedans (like your Vento). Younger generations are already trending towards not putting much stock in driving as a skill, last thing you want to do is give her a first car she finds overwhelming or just doesn't get comfortable with, and gets put off driving.

Last edited by Chetan_Rao : 25th November 2021 at 14:19.
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Old 25th November 2021, 14:19   #35
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Default Re: Wanted | A compact, smart, manual transmission second car | ~10 lakh budget

Slightly left-field and possibly an old and dated concept- but I've always felt a first car should be manual-transmission, second-hand, and as low on gadgets/tech and power as possible. Learning to drive on a simpler car, especially when younger, gives the driver the chance to develop technique and skill as opposed to relying on power or other aids to navigate through traffic and tricky situations. Not to mention the inevitable scrapes, bumps and mishaps that any new driver will have while learning will be a lot easier on the pocket on a lower-end second-hand car. So a suggestion would be a second hand Alto, with the promise to upgrade to a much better car once the driver has developed a good and defensive driving style.

Of course, younger people are certainly more conscious of being trendy and you've already mentioned that in the OP about pre-worshipped not being an option. But just thought I'd put this here.

But either way, I'd agree manual transmission is the way to go, they are a lot more fun and first driving experiences should be fun!
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Old 25th November 2021, 17:41   #36
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Default Re: Wanted | A compact, smart, manual transmission second car | ~10 lakh budget

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Originally Posted by asit.kulkarni93 View Post
Hey Noopster!

So finally the Vento is getting replaced. Although you have a Seltos, I would still say stay away from Hyundais for this purchase. Long term upkeep is a headache and won't be as smooth as your swift or vento.

1. Get the Ignis for now. It's relatively well built and fun to drive. The K12 engine feels good. Incase you decide to replace this car in the near future with an AT then you won't take a major depreciation hit either.
I agree with this, the ignis makes the most sense since it is very likely that manuals( and even ice, for that matter) will become outdated in the next 3-4 years, the ignis takes the least depreciation and it has all the elements you/your daughter need imo( apple carplay/ android auto, good FE, good driveability and ease of pottering around city through tight lanes, added peace of mind with the maruti badge, no worries of taking a large hit on resale value since it is already a cheap offering and marutis typically retain value nicely). However the safety remains a bit of a concern though.

Your daughter would find the ignis fast too( while learning, since she doesn't have a yardstick to compare its performance to) and I believe till she learns to drive properly, it is best to not give too much performance in her hands( else the altroz would have been the top pick).
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Old 25th November 2021, 18:22   #37
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Default Re: Wanted | A compact, smart, manual transmission second car | ~10 lakh budget

OMG, so many choices. I guess @noopster is already confused on what to get. We end up here most of the times.

I came here to give my choice and its a mistake, if, I don't add something to this conundrum

1. Wagon R 1.2. Practical, Reliable, Nimble, cheap and the 1.2 is a rocket. Has a Good visibility, a boon to the newbies. Good on resale too.

2. The new Celerio targeted towards the new generation.

And both of them have small foot print and are a great city car.

Last edited by saisree : 25th November 2021 at 18:28.
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Old 25th November 2021, 21:53   #38
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Default Re: Wanted | A compact, smart, manual transmission second car | ~10 lakh budget

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Originally Posted by noopster View Post
Background:

We have been a 2-car family for a while now since both my wife and I drive regularly. Our Seltos GTX diesel AT is barely a year old but the Vento is growing long in the tooth now and we've started to think that replacing it makes a lot of sense. So the hunt has just started to find a replacement that, as the thread title indicates, needs to be a compact, smart, MT vehicle.

Hi Noopster, you already have some great options on your consideration list and I think the i10 Nios Turbo seems like the most fun choice overall, followed by the Altroz i-Turbo, which is a nice mix of fun and practicality. I will also recommend you some cars that I don't see mentioned yet, but could make for a great option, to make things a little interesting.

Option 1: Maruti Brezza LXI/VXI - Not the most exciting in terms of design and equipment list, but I think the Brezza is incredibly good value for money and offers all the bare essentials in the base trims. Heck, the LXI is only a little bit more money than the Ignis, and you get a car that's a segment higher and with a bigger engine. The 1.5 motor is pretty sweet as far as naturally aspirated engines go, and given it'll primarily be a city runabout, you won't have to put up with the atrocious FE figures of a turbo petrol engine.

Oh, and it's safer than your Seltos with a 4-star NCAP rating . I am sure you would want to give your daughter a car that's safe and the Brezza would fit the bill perfectly. The LXI should be in the ball park of Rs. 8.XX lakh on-road, leaving with you plenty of money to throw in a nice set of alloys and an infotainment system with CarPlay, Android Auto, reverse parking camera, etc. As a new driver, I am sure your daughter will also appreciate the slightly raised stance of a C-SUV and the overall better visibility it would offer from the inside. If you do go down this route, just make sure to swap that rear bench with seats from a higher trim, as the LXI does not get headrests at the back.

Option 2: S-Cross Sigma/Delta/Zeta - All the plus points of the Brezza, with the bonus of a slightly nicer interior. I hear there's a ton of discounts available on it at the moment. Should bring it right around your 10-lakh-rupee budget. You can even call it a sideways upgrade from the Vento.

Option 3: Ford Figo/Freestyle - Assuming there are still dealers sitting on stocks of the Figo/Freestyle, you might end up with a really good deal. The Figo was fun to drive and should be a great city runabout. Of course, only consider this if you plan to hold on to this car for a long, long time and do not care about the residual value of your car in the used car market in the years to come.

Last edited by Abhinav667 : 25th November 2021 at 21:55.
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Old 25th November 2021, 22:27   #39
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Default Re: Wanted | A compact, smart, manual transmission second car | ~10 lakh budget

Kodos for picking a MT and also wanting your daughter to have a taste of this dying breed!

I chose MT while buying a car for this exact reason, for me taking away the stick means taking away one of the biggest experience in driving. No offence to anyone but automatics are kinda 'meh'. It might make the life easier but so is taking a cab!

Coming to the car choices, from the options you have shortlisted, I think both i10 Nios and Tata Altroz meets your requirements or at-least comes close.

Grand i10 Nios Pros -

- Compact size makes it perfect for city
- Awesome turbo engine makes it fun car
- Quality interiors

And meets every other parameters you have except for safety.

Altroz Pros

- Awesome build quality and safety ratings
- Feature loaded just like i10 Nios
- Good turbo engine (but not better than i 10)
- Bigger car

I don't see any cons with Altroz maybe except for Tata's service.
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Old 26th November 2021, 08:00   #40
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Default Re: Wanted | A compact, smart, manual transmission second car | ~10 lakh budget

I have test-driven both i10 Nios Turbo (late last year) and Altroz iTurbo (a few months ago).

The i10 feels a little easier to maneuver and chuck around in heavy traffic as compared to the Altroz. It could be because of the dimensions, but the i10 also somehow seems to have a bit lesser turbo lag initially. The gears and clutch are also slightly slicker and easier to operate in the i10, but the Altroz somehow feels like a much bigger car and not a hatchback, from the inside.

I would recommend test-driving both cars before making a decision.

Of course, Hyundai has slightly better service than Tata, so that peace-of-mind quotient is also there.

But I would leave it to you to decide if you want both of your cars to be from the Hyundai-Kia stable. If it were me, I would probably diversify.
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Old 26th November 2021, 09:31   #41
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Default Re: Wanted | A compact, smart, manual transmission second car | ~10 lakh budget

The best cars to learn driving on are the older ones in the family. I'd recommend you let her learn on the Vento before replacing it.

It's old so you won't mind the dings. Also minor bumps won't even show, unlike a Maruti. She'll be driving in the city so even if it causes issues she won't be stranded on the highway, plus she'll learn how to deal with car issues. Initially you could park/remove from the parking for her and when she gets more confident, she can do it herself. Nothing teaches size estimation like a tight parking.
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Old 26th November 2021, 11:04   #42
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Default Re: Wanted | A compact, smart, manual transmission second car | ~10 lakh budget

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Originally Posted by evil_grin View Post
The best cars to learn driving on are the older ones in the family. I'd recommend you let her learn on the Vento before replacing it.
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Originally Posted by Neversaygbye View Post
I would suggest that you hold on to the Vento for a couple of years more if possible, especially if changing the car right away is not a necessity. With the shift to EVs slowly but surely gathering momentum, you might find that your new ICE based car has become obsolete in the next 2-3 years.
Holding on to the Vento is definitely an option. The only thing giving me pause for thought is the fact that I will need to keep investing in it (cost of annual service: 10-12K, new tyres: 25K, impending AC overhaul: at least 10-15K etc.) It has another 4 years of life left, though, before its up for re-registration.

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Originally Posted by Pkumarblore View Post
But if I had to buy a new car spending close to 10 lacs, I would never buy an MT. It would be a modern proven AT(mostly likely a TC)...

In my opinion, I think you should let your daughter drive a used MT car till she picks up the art of maneuvering the crazy city traffic. Once she is confident you can always pick your choice of an AT car. Its just my thought.
Happy car hunting.
Quote:
Originally Posted by am1m View Post
Slightly left-field and possibly an old and dated concept- but I've always felt a first car should be manual-transmission, second-hand, and as low on gadgets/tech and power as possible. Learning to drive on a simpler car, especially when younger, gives the driver the chance to develop technique and skill as opposed to relying on power or other aids to navigate through traffic and tricky situations. Not to mention the inevitable scrapes, bumps and mishaps that any new driver will have while learning will be a lot easier on the pocket on a lower-end second-hand car. So a suggestion would be a second hand Alto, with the promise to upgrade to a much better car once the driver has developed a good and defensive driving style.
That sounds very reasonable, thanks for the suggestion! Actually, my nephews have learned their driving on AT vehicles that too high end/ long wheelbase ones- it's just a question of adapting, I guess. Instead of getting a beater second hand MT that would be no fun for anyone else to drive, I would rather just hold on to the Vento.

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Originally Posted by Small Bot View Post
I have test-driven both i10 Nios Turbo (late last year) and Altroz iTurbo (a few months ago)...
Very useful inputs, thanks! I will definitely TD (and have my wife TD) the shortlisted cars before booking.

Quote:
Originally Posted by delusional_fool View Post
Kodos for picking a MT and also wanting your daughter to have a taste of this dying breed!

I chose MT while buying a car for this exact reason, for me taking away the stick means taking away one of the biggest experience in driving. No offence to anyone but automatics are kinda 'meh'. It might make the life easier but so is taking a cab!
I haven't driven a stick regularly since 2011 but ever since we got rid of the Swift a year ago, I do miss having an MT around: Sunday morning drives in the Swift were such fun! As a lot of folks here are saying, once the EV becomes mainstream, stick shifts will be as good as museum pieces, so this is probably my last chance to get one.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Abhinav667 View Post
Hi Noopster, you already have some great options on your consideration list and I think the i10 Nios Turbo seems like the most fun choice overall, followed by the Altroz i-Turbo, which is a nice mix of fun and practicality. I will also recommend you some cars that I don't see mentioned yet, but could make for a great option, to make things a little interesting...
Hey thanks! The Brezza didn't seem that appealing till you listed it here
My wife's friend bought an S Cross and she's been nudging me to look at it but we will probably opt for something smaller. Ford is not an option given their recent exit, sorry!

Quote:
Originally Posted by saisree View Post
OMG, so many choices. I guess @noopster is already confused on what to get. We end up here most of the times.

Quote:
1. Wagon R 1.2. Practical, Reliable, Nimble, cheap and the 1.2 is a rocket. Has a Good visibility, a boon to the newbies. Good on resale too.
Am not a fan of the boxy looks at all, sorry.

Quote:
2. The new Celerio targeted towards the new generation.
Hmmm this one is interesting- haven't seen one in the flesh yet but it looks quite nice in the promos. Will check it out when we go to see the Ignis!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chetan_Rao View Post
Forgot to mention earlier, given this will be your daughter's first car soon, what size and ergonomics she's comfortable with should probably be the deciding factor? I'm assuming your significant other is a seasoned driver and will adjust relatively easier.
Won't know what size the young 'un is comfortable with till she actually starts driving but she doesn't seem to have any irrational fear of larger vehicles etc. that I've noticed in some new drivers.
Quote:
Younger generations are already trending towards not putting much stock in driving as a skill, last thing you want to do is give her a first car she finds overwhelming or just doesn't get comfortable with, and gets put off driving.
Good point but I doubt that's an issue- the kids have seen their parents drive pretty much all their life, so are quite eager to take the wheel themselves when the time comes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PrasannaDhana View Post
Altroz diesel - a thorough all rounder which can be very very economical to run too

If you don't care about fuel efficiency much, the top choice will be the Polo TSI MT. That engine and 6 speed MT are blissful to use.

Since safety is an important priority here, I would stay away from the ignis.
Thanks Prasanna. Very much aligned to my thinking!

--

In other news, the Polo TSI MT is almost certainly out of the equation now. I thought about it again and what Viddy said is right: the thought of spending nearly two decades in the same car is just not appealing!

The i20 N Line DCT is also out. Though it's a nice car that I wouldn't mind having as my own primary, it just doesn't fit the use case.
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Old 26th November 2021, 14:29   #43
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Default Re: Wanted | A compact, smart, manual transmission second car | ~10 lakh budget

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Originally Posted by noopster View Post
Holding on to the Vento is definitely an option. The only thing giving me pause for thought is the fact that I will need to keep investing in it (cost of annual service: 10-12K, new tyres: 25K, impending AC overhaul: at least 10-15K etc.) It has another 4 years of life left, though, before its up for re-registration.
That adds up to a measly 50k. Which is only 5% of the 1000k that you're planning to spend on a new car.

5%

Let that sink in for a minute.

Heck it's around the same as you'll spend on the first year service plus insurance of a new car. Or less than 2 month EMI of your new car. You have saved big bucks in the last few years by not paying emi or high insurance. Don't worry about relatively smaller expenses to keep your car in good running condition.

Keep it for a few more years and let your daughter choose her next car after she's learnt driving on this one. She'll also know more about her requirements by then.
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Old 26th November 2021, 16:38   #44
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Default Re: Wanted | A compact, smart, manual transmission second car | ~10 lakh budget

Pardon me for not reading all the responses. If the Vento is not giving you any trouble, can you stick with it? No other car in this budget apart from the sibling Polo will give you a similar build quality.

If you want a new car, I would suggest an Automatic (Torque Converter or CVT, no DCT or AMT). Even 2 years ago, my response would have been heavily in favour of a Manual and I could have not imagined recommending an Auto to someone in the market for a Manual. If the younger ones can learn driving much easily in an Auto, why subject them to the steeper learning curve of a Manual (unless of course the kid is interested to learn driving in one). Do consider the Kiger CVT IMO.

Last edited by Gannu_1 : 26th November 2021 at 16:39. Reason: Typo and full stop.
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