[noopster]

Thanks for the advice- some real good stuff in there. Just trying to answer some of the questions raised:

Originally Posted by Eddy

Why is the Honda WRV not in the shortlist?

Somehow Honda skipped my mind completely . Amaze, Jazz and W-RV all fit the criteria I suppose. For some reason I find Hondas very boring of late. Still it makes sense to drop into a showroom and take a dekko. Thanks!

Originally Posted by asit.kulkarni93

So finally the Vento is getting replaced. Although you have a Seltos, I would still say stay away from Hyundais for this purchase. Long term upkeep is a headache and won't be as smooth as your swift or vento.

Any particular reason why you say this? What are the typical failure points?

1. Get the Ignis for now. It's relatively well built and fun to drive. The K12 engine feels good. Incase you decide to replace this car in the near future with an AT then you won't take a major depreciation hit either.

You've nailed it. A simple car + engine + gearbox that will still retain its value till resale is an attractive proposition!

Originally Posted by GTO

Go for AT only. MT is an outdated concept now, except in some purposeful machines (sporty cars, offroaders) or budget cars (which either don't offer an AT or have lousy AMTs).

Your eldest can visit a driving school and learn MT, but no need to make her suffer everyday in traffic with a technology that's fast becoming irrelevant .

In a way I am both thrilled and saddened to hear you say this! I guess it really means the last bastion has crumbled

In AT: i20 DCT. Just last week, I drove a friend's i20 DCT and loved it. Get the extended warranty (I recently bought a DSG too).

N Line DCT will cross 14L on the road. Am not sure I have the appetite to stretch that much! I also want to skip AMTs, because they don't sound too exciting. I've driven the Alto K10 and Wagon R AMTs for short stretches and they seemed ok-ok to me, but certainly nowhere close to a real torque convertor/ DCT/ CVT in feel.

In MT: Keep the Altroz as a top choice. It is one heck of a hatchback = great looking, solid build, space, 5-star safety, mature suspension, big-car-like behaviour at 120 kmph. Personal preference would be the diesel, although the turbo-petrol will do the job too (avoid the lame 1.2L NA motor). Also consider i10 & i20 turbo-petrols.

Agree. It is the leading contender at least so far.

Originally Posted by KPR

Auto - Amaze CVT Diesel
Manual - Altroz Diesel
Please avoid all the turbo petrols. They are petrol drunkards.

I confess I wasn't thinking of the FE aspect at all. But how bad can it be on a small car? Like the neighbourhood Mumbai mechanic will tell you, "Saab, sab gaadi das deta hai" (all cars return 10 km/lit).

[KPR]

Originally Posted by noopster

But how bad can it be on a small car?

How good diesel mileage will be on a small car?
My prediction is atleast 3.5 kmpl more over Turbo petrol variant.
We brothers own Punto 90HP diesel and Abarth. Mileage in MID states 14.5 kmpl and 10.5 kmpl respectively over same trip. But
1. Turbo petrol is super fun at speeds north of 110 kmph.
2. Better NVH of turbo petrol over Diesel. But diesel is good and liveable unless one is very finicky about it.

[Kosfactor]

Originally Posted by noopster

Why manual transmission?
In just a couple of years our eldest will start driving and I want her to learn her chops on a standard H. Call it soppy sentimentality about an era that has bypassed us but I still think "Can you handle a stick?" needs to be answered with a confident "Yes!"
Am still not sold on electric cars in their current avatar and am willing to wait 5 years or more to head down that rabbit hole. Indifferent to diesel or petrol but the engine needs to be nice and peppy.

It is good for everyone to learn to drive am MT, it makes them understand that a car is somehow different from a vacuum cleaner and that driving is not just a chore to get somewhere.

If you are looking at a hatch consider a Red Swift, it does everything and is very affordable to run, you have a bigger vehicle to handle highway duties anyways.

[vb-saan]

Originally Posted by noopster

VW Polo TSI now came with a 6-speed manual!

Get this one!

• Even after another 5 years, the car will look relevant (thanks to the subtle ways VAG generation changes).
• Lifelong bragging rights for the little one – she can say “I started off with a VW Polo manual transmission”, or even better if it became a keeper for the next generation

[asit.kulkarni93]

Originally Posted by noopster

Any particular reason why you say this? What are the typical failure points?

Failure points typically for i20s, Vernas and Cretas are premature wear of clutch, clutch cylinder failures, cooling coil related issues, EPS motor, steering rack and so on.

Hyundai petrols are far from fuel efficient. Heck my Corolla gave better FE than my friend's elite i20 petrol. Recently met someone at a Hyundai mobis outlet who was replacing his Verna petrol's clutch for the 2nd time in 60k KMs(it was the new gen Verna). It gets hard like typical Hyundais in less than 10k KMs post replacement.

Ideally, you shouldn't look beyond the Jazz CVT. Frugal, safe, comfortable and fuss-free. Polo TSi will keep you happy too.

[shancz]

I would suggest two approaches :

1. Low slung old school purists way with the Polo but would suggest to wait for the replacement, could be the Fabia too going by their 2.0 approach.

2. Easy city car approach with the Ignis or the NIOS with personal preferences for looks, features and engines being the deciders.

[Vid6639]

Originally Posted by KPR

How good diesel mileage will be on a small car?
My prediction is atleast 3.5 kmpl more over Turbo petrol variant.
We brothers own Punto 90HP diesel and Abarth. Mileage in MID states 14.5 kmpl and 10.5 kmpl respectively over same trip. But
1. Turbo petrol is super fun at speeds north of 110 kmph.
2. Better NVH of turbo petrol over Diesel. But diesel is good and liveable unless one is very finicky about it.

You are comparing old school BS4 diesel engines with a brand new BS6 diesel. The BS6 diesel cars have more complex emission systems that are less reliable and don't like low rpm lugging in traffic. The DPF systems are getting clogged in almost all manufacturers selling diesel cars. Buying a small hatch city runabout with a diesel engine makes absolute no sense.

To top of it, he already has a diesel AT crossover in the Seltos so no point in having 2 diesel cars in the garage especially when the 2nd car is a city runabout. With ever tightening emission norms, it makes no sense to put all your eggs in one basket.

Originally Posted by vb-san

Get this one!

• Even after another 5 years, the car will look relevant (thanks to the subtle ways VAG generation changes).
• Lifelong bragging rights for the little one – she can say “I started off with a VW Polo manual transmission”, or even better if it became a keeper for the next generation

I recommended this but really doesn't make sense since the Polo TSI has exact same cabin, feel and interior as his 12 year old Vento. He will be looking at the same dash for another 8 years i.e. 20 years. lol. Will get tired.

Originally Posted by Eddy

Why is the Honda WRV not in the shortlist?

Simple. Honda refuses to give it a good engine. The new BS6 norms have neutered the 1.2L i-VTEC engine which was already suffering from poor driveability. Since the Brio was light it worked awesomely well in it but with heavier JAzz and W-RV the performance is blunted completely.

It has a slick gearbox but if you want any fun or forward movement from a W-RV it needs to be above 4000 rpm. lol.

[MANE]

I would Suggest the Ignis 1.2 MT. A perfect city runabout with compact dimensions and those swanky looks will take care of that teenagers first car. Get it in the shade of Blue or Orange as it looks more lively in those shades. Maruti petrols are know to be one of the best in terms of mileage. Generally a smaller car feels easy to learn than a bigger car, so take that factor into consideration as well.
PS.I learnt on a Celerio 1.0 and even that felt fast for me in the initial days.

[Vid6639]

I forgot to put my pick after my reply.

My choice in the list goes to the Ignis MT.

The Ignis is the perfect size, higher up seating with good view and has super light controls and dynamics like a go kart.

As someone mentioned it's simple in maintenance being an NA engine and with Maruti badge for resale. It's also one of the better build Maruti's.

The Altroz and i20 Nios Turbo are super fun to drive but small turbo petrols don't like city commuting, there is some amount of turbo lag and they are usually not kind to the clutch with more torque. Someone learning has higher chances of frying a clutch on a turbo petrol with the torque vs an NA engine.

An old school NA engine car with a super slick gearbox + light controls and compact dimensions is the ideal choice and the Ignis Alpha checks all the right boxes for me.

[IshaanIan]

A compact car is required for one of two reasons; tight parking space or something to nip through traffic in. Cars are all too big and fat these days to nip through traffic like how the old WagonRs or Altos could. To give you an example, the Ignis is only 9mm narrower than a Vento and the Tata Punch is 43mm wider than a Vento. Taking that into consideration, unless you have a distinct lack of parking space, do check out the S-Cross. The car is robust, safe, easy to maintain and can be had for under 10 lacs with dealers providing discounts north of 75k on it. Visibility all around is good and if one cannot drive the car it is not a problem of size but just a lack of skill but I suppose you being pukka about the manual transmission, the latter is not a possibility. Atleast give it a test drive before knocking it out of the list for something that is more "compact".

[noopster]

Originally Posted by IshaanIan

A compact car is required for one of two reasons; tight parking space or something to nip through traffic in. Cars are all too big and fat these days to nip through traffic like how the old WagonRs or Altos could. To give you an example, the Ignis is only 9mm narrower than a Vento and the Tata Punch is 43mm wider than a Vento.

Yes the crunched parking space is a hard constraint. Unless of course I negotiate with someone in my building to swap a parking space out, which is also an option but only as a last resort. Thanks for mentioning this- it had slipped my mind!

Edit: I drew up a table to check what fits and what is risky. Not sure the extra 60mm will make it impossible to park but will definitely need to check. The i20 N Line definitely looks out.

[hserus]

Don't buy new. Buy a used BS4 diesel from the last one or two batches of BS4 - 2018/19 vehicles. They will last you a long time.

[Hayek]

Interesting thread, and I can guess where you studied from your approach to a car choice.

I would echo what GTO said - stick shifts are dying, will be completely irrelevant in the Electric Car world, and are pure unadulterated torture in urban traffic - by the time your daughter gets her next car, even ADAS will be standard equipment, and I don’t see any reason to waste energy honing an unnecessary skill set.

Will also add that don’t be so worried about DSG failures - I think failure rates have come down and have friends with even DQ200 based cars who have run them for years now without any problems.

So the i20 N Line should come back into consideration. The only concern I have with the turbo petrols is whether cars with so much power are advisable for a new driver, esp a teenager. Yes girls are generally more sensible than boys - but the temptation to wring a pocket rocket will be very high. So while I can’t give a specific suggestion, I do think you should consider this factor too.

[IshaanIan]

Originally Posted by noopster

Not sure the extra 60mm will make it impossible to park but will definitely need to check.

That's what I was trying to get at; unless there is a dire lack of parking space, do consider something mechanically solid like the S-Cross which ought to provide years of consistent driving experience to anyone in your family while not being too gargantuan as such

Originally Posted by noopster

The i20 N Line definitely looks out.

I would simply rule out the i20 N line purely for its 3cylinder turbo petrol heart. An engine such as this is only made to please the spec sheet geeks and ARAI organizations of the world it does not hold a candle to a proper 4cyl NA petrol in terms of tractability and consistency.

[speedguy]

Give preference to AT over MT. She will be lot more comfortable driving it in city. But still, my recommendations would be as follows:

Manual transmission: Altroz iTurbo. Go for it blindly. Hell of a car for both city as well as intercity travel. 5 star GNCAP safety rating, Premium looks, a class or two above interiors, without doubt best steering system I've driven, spacious for 4 & enough for 5, adequate boot space. I can go on. Only downside I see is, it is more thirsty.

Auto Transmission: For this, prefer the car which has DCT. May be i20 or i10 Nios would do the job. Personally I would go for Polo, but since you are already bidding adieu to Vento, there won't be much change for you people if you again go back to Polo. Polo's DSG is equal to or dare I say, somewhat better than DCT of Hyundai (Personal opinion)