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Old 19th January 2018, 17:00   #451
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Default Re: Which Automatic Hatch?

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Originally Posted by DCEite View Post
Based on your requirements, TATA Tiago XZA fits to the T.

It is an easy to drive car with a solid build quality, decent set of safety equipment, and a good fuel efficiency to compliment.

I have a 1500 km run Tigor XZA and i am already getting around 14-15 kmpl in city traffic , the Tiago should do even better.

Regarding after sales and service, i cannot comment much because my ownerhsip period has been very less, but going by the general sentiment, TATA has indeed improved in this area.

For a peace of mind experience you can go with Gold AMC/P2P plan along with 4 years extended warranty package with the Tiago.
Tiago XZA is a very good car...I am using it since last 6 months and have crossed 6100 kms. In Pune traffic, I am getting FE around 16-17 kmpl and on highways, I am getting FE of 21 kmpl, even with some spirited driving.

It looks like Tata after sales has been improving slowly.
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Old 19th January 2018, 17:02   #452
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@karadi An AMT will not give you the smoothness of a proper automatic car. Roughness, slow shift time, noticable clutch slip in second when you down to a crawl and speed up again are common problems. To some extent Tata has managed to tune the tcu that controlls the AMT better than others. If you want a effecient city car go in for one with CVT, if your usage is less and effeciency is not a major concern then the age old torque converter is a proven product you should stick to.

Rahul
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Old 22nd January 2018, 19:24   #453
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Default Re: Which Automatic Hatch?

Hi Bhpians,

I'm looking for an AT Hatch (used) for my wife (she is a newbie to cars) for office commute. There are numerous cars listed on car portals which is making the choice a bit difficult. Also my wife is inclined towards the Blue Brio (pre-facelift model). The problem is, it is getting really hard to find a blue one that too in AT.

Also, just to add, are there any other choices ??? Budget around 4L.

It will be used only for my wife's office commute and by me (I love the way the Brio drives) occasionally. It will never see the highways/long drives, we have a Verna Diesel taking care of those duties.

Last edited by tsk1979 : 24th January 2018 at 09:35. Reason: spacing
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Old 23rd January 2018, 00:47   #454
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Originally Posted by drhoneycake View Post
Hi Bhpians,

I'm looking for an AT Hatch (used) for my wife (she is a newbie to cars) for office commute. There are numerous cars listed on car portals which is making the choice a bit difficult. Also my wife is inclined towards the Blue Brio (pre-facelift model). The problem is, it is getting really hard to find a blue one that too in AT.

Also, just to add, are there any other choices ??? Budget around 4L.
Same situation for me. My search ended up with two options. TATA Tiago or Ford Figo. Priorities were safety, engine and looks. Finally decided to go with Figo. And then I heard about the facelift. Iím thinking to wait for the facelift Figo as it would have nice interiors. I donít like the interiors of the current Figo. Safety wise both cars have 2xairbags plus abs. Tiago has a 1.2 Litre Revotron engine with AMT, where as Figo has a 1.5 Litre engine mated to 6 speed DCT. There is a rumour that the face lifted Figo might come with an AMT. Both cars have driver seat height adjustment. I really like the Aston Martin ish looks of the Figo. Look wise Tiago is not satisfying for me. I donít like the humanity line of TATA.(my personal opinion only). Even though Tiago is a great VFM car, Figo ticks most boxes for me.
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Old 23rd January 2018, 23:08   #455
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Originally Posted by jetsetgo08 View Post
It is an inherent problem with the AMT coupled with a 3-cylinder engine. Do you see the same problem even in the manual mode? I would suggest to use more of the manual mode. Although it beats the purpose of buying an automatic, but it surely would save frequent downtime due to clutch overhauls.

Another suggestion could be to get the problem rectified by a different/more competent MASS if possible.
I was bestowed by a visit from the regional offices of Suzuki on Monday the 22nd Jan, and I demonstrated the problem and the official did agree with me that the engine is not providing sufficient torque at the engine speeds below 2500 RPM and meanwhile the gear shifts to a higher gear. He asked me to try if the same happened in manual mode and I demonstrated that when in manual mode I could get the gear change effected later at around 3000 RPM and have little or none of the vibration that was otherwise an annoying drumming. This is possible as the gear does not shift up until commanded to do so when the next higher gear loads the engine at revs past 2500 RPM.

He alternatively suggested that I try providing more throttle opening that I normally do to avoid the problem, which mitigates the problem by reducing the duration of the drumming, but the solution is not at practical in the density of Bangalore traffic.

I do not see an alternative MASS being the solution as this is being handled by Mandovi & Maruti Suzuki jointly.

I have explained to him that once the RPM crosses 2500 the engine is absolutely vibration free even at road speeds of over 110 Kmph, and has yielded on a trip to Hyderabad 19+ kmpl at sustained speed of over 80 kmph. Whereas in Bangalore city run in any case it does not cross 12 kmpl measured from full tank to full tank (in both cases at COCO outlets of the PSU oil companies), with the existing premature upward gear changes.

I do hope that he will be able to convince his superiors at the manufacturing plant to provide a remap of the ECU or TCU whatever is responsible for signalling to the Magnetti Marelli unit to effect the gear change after sufficiently high RPM and road speeds are achieved. Is it not possible to tweak the signal from engine speed sensor to modify and provide a false output to the TCU so that it delays the gear change upwards ? Technical Geeks on Team BHP I appeal to you to help me sort out this without resorting to a ECU / TCU remap .

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rahul Rao View Post
@karadi An AMT will not give you the smoothness of a proper automatic car. Roughness, slow shift time, noticable clutch slip in second when you down to a crawl and speed up again are common problems. To some extent Tata has managed to tune the tcu that controlls the AMT better than others. If you want a effecient city car go in for one with CVT, if your usage is less and effeciency is not a major concern then the age old torque converter is a proven product you should stick to.

Rahul
I have never driven a CVT, I had called Honda to give me a test drive, it did not happen and I missed the Santro as the AT version was not on the market anymore and so...

Quote:
Originally Posted by drhoneycake View Post
Hi Bhpians,

I'm looking for an AT Hatch (used) for my wife (she is a newbie to cars) for office commute. There are numerous cars listed on car portals which is making the choice a bit difficult. Also my wife is inclined towards the Blue Brio (pre-facelift model). The problem is, it is getting really hard to find a blue one that too in AT.

Also, just to add, are there any other choices ??? Budget around 4L.

It will be used only for my wife's office commute and by me (I love the way the Brio drives) occasionally. It will never see the highways/long drives, we have a Verna Diesel taking care of those duties.
I would suggest that you could look for a low mileage Santro AT or I10 from known 1st owners or from "Traded in" certified cars from the Hyundai dealership. The cost of ownership was low for me.

Last edited by tsk1979 : 24th January 2018 at 09:36. Reason: merging posts. Pls. use edit option when replying within 30mins.
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Old 24th January 2018, 09:31   #456
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Figo has a 1.5 Litre engine mated to 6 speed DCT. There is a rumour that the face lifted Figo might come with an AMT.
Ford is shifting to their 6 speed Torque converter At from the DCT in all their smaller range, they have already changed over in the ecosport.

Rahul
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Old 24th January 2018, 09:54   #457
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drhoneycake View Post
Hi Bhpians,

I'm looking for an AT Hatch (used) for my wife (she is a newbie to cars) for office commute. There are numerous cars listed on car portals which is making the choice a bit difficult. Also my wife is inclined towards the Blue Brio (pre-facelift model). The problem is, it is getting really hard to find a blue one that too in AT.

Also, just to add, are there any other choices ??? Budget around 4L.

It will be used only for my wife's office commute and by me (I love the way the Brio drives) occasionally. It will never see the highways/long drives, we have a Verna Diesel taking care of those duties.
I have an Hyundai I20(2013) for highway drives. I was in similar situation 1 year back. Brio,I10,Santro and Grand I10 are the obvious choices. Difficult to spot Brio and Santro. Grand I10 would be available in plenty(asking price would be 4L in H Promise) I10(asking price would be 3L in H promise). For I10 prices does not differ for models of 2-3 years difference. Look for mileage, service history etc. Year and Variant does not matter for local run. I picked a late 2009 one for 3L, using it since 1 year, no regrets, works like charm.
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Old 24th January 2018, 13:08   #458
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Originally Posted by Karadi View Post
I do hope that he will be able to convince his superiors at the manufacturing plant to provide a remap of the ECU or TCU whatever is responsible for signalling to the Magnetti Marelli unit to effect the gear change after sufficiently high RPM and road speeds are achieved. Is it not possible to tweak the signal from engine speed sensor to modify and provide a false output to the TCU so that it delays the gear change upwards ? Technical Geeks on Team BHP I appeal to you to help me sort out this without resorting to a ECU / TCU remap .
To be honest, if the ECU software is misbehaving or unable to learn, then it should be a cause of concern for entire the lot of AMT's manufactured during that duration. But, I highly doubt that.

The other things you could try-
1) Get the car checked by an expert mechanic from an FNG/another MASS for Valve timing. Poorly adjusted valves could drastically reduce the low-end torque. The power loss is reduced/not observed when shifting at higher rpm's.
2) Drive another Wagon R AMT. If everything feels right, ask them to check with the ECU swapped with your vehicle. If your vehicle feels sprightly with the new ECU, push for a replacement ECU under warranty. This should lead to a solution. However, getting them convinced to do all this is the difficult part.
3) Tweak the ECU with custom map, which might lead to other pitfalls like drop in mileage, loss of warranty etc. I would suggest to be aware of the demerits before any custom tuning.

Please continue the discussion here-
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/techni...-amt-woes.html

Last edited by jetsetgo08 : 24th January 2018 at 13:12.
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Old 6th February 2018, 11:28   #459
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Default Re: Which Automatic Hatch?

Guys... have a budget of approx 8 lakhs..

Needs
1. Want a fully loaded automatic hatch for mom who will self drive (Age 66)
2. Only and only honda/hyundai/suzuki
3. CVT or Normal Torque Convertor
4. Ease of exit / entry
5. Decent boot for her routine like grocery shopping,
6. Should be able to carry 5 ladies to kitty party etc.
7. Good aesthetics

I think it boils down to baleno, jazz, i10. (i20 seems pricey?)

Please recommend the best one out of the 3...

Last edited by acidkill : 6th February 2018 at 11:31.
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Old 6th February 2018, 12:01   #460
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Originally Posted by acidkill View Post
Guys... have a budget of approx 8 lakhs..

Needs
1. Want a fully loaded automatic hatch for mom who will self drive (Age 66)
2. Only and only honda/hyundai/suzuki
3. CVT or Normal Torque Convertor
4. Ease of exit / entry
5. Decent boot for her routine like grocery shopping,
6. Should be able to carry 5 ladies to kitty party etc.
7. Good aesthetics

I think it boils down to baleno, jazz, i10. (i20 seems pricey?)

Please recommend the best one out of the 3...

Hello Sir,

According to your requirements, I think the Jazz CVT suits you the most.

1) Comes loaded with features except for the Magic seats and a push start stop button.

2) Smooth and super silent CVT gearbox. Shifts are seamless.

3) The Jazz is a taller vehicle than the Baleno, ingress and egress will be easier than the Baleno.

4) At 354 litres, boot space is the largest among hatchbacks. More than adequate for shopping needs.

5) The Jazz is India's roomiest hatch. Seating 5 is not going to be an issue.

6) Aesthetically, the jazz is a very good looking hatch, especially in shades like the carnelian red pearl.


Second runner-up is the Baleno CVT, looks great, has more features than the Jazz but falls short on space when compared to the Jazz. Interior wise too, the jazz has the more premium and well put together interiors when compared to the Baleno.

Last edited by Prathiiik : 6th February 2018 at 12:31.
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Old 6th February 2018, 13:44   #461
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Is the automatic jazz now coming in VX variant? When I was looking for an automatic ride, the point 1 mentioned above we're not available as V was the highest variant.
Otherwise though , it is a perfect fit for the requirements
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Old 6th February 2018, 14:03   #462
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Originally Posted by Pacifier View Post
Is the automatic jazz now coming in VX variant? When I was looking for an automatic ride, the point 1 mentioned above we're not available as V was the highest variant.
Otherwise though , it is a perfect fit for the requirements
Hello Pacifier Sir,

The Honda jazz automatic is still available only in the S and V variants.
The V variant is not very different from the VX in terms of features except for the touchscreen head unit, the magic seats and the black interiors.

Last edited by Prathiiik : 6th February 2018 at 14:10.
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Old 6th February 2018, 14:35   #463
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Yes

I just eliminated the i10 as i noticed the xcent in the taxi market.

the jazz is what i am inclined to, but as i already own the honda city cvt.. mentally tend to comepare the city and jazz and miss things like push start button and big navigation screen.

I will test ride the baleno and jazz and decide. Thanks guys.
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Old 6th February 2018, 14:43   #464
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Quote:
Originally Posted by acidkill View Post
Guys... have a budget of approx 8 lakhs..

Needs
1. Want a fully loaded automatic hatch for mom who will self drive (Age 66)
Quote:
Originally Posted by acidkill View Post
Yes

I just eliminated the i10 as i noticed the xcent in the taxi market.
Here's what I'll tell you: this car is for your mum, right? You decide the technical specs (safety, comfort and convenience) and shortlist cars; let her make the final call.

My mum drives an i20 and a constant subtle hint she keeps giving my dad and I is that her next car has to be smaller. She is not comfortable with a) the sloping hood, and b) the dimensions of the i20. It'll be worse on the Jazz.

Don't dismiss the i10 just because a car like it, Xcent, exists as a taxi.

Considering the primary user, ideally look at practicality over perception. Why not the WagonR AMT?

Last edited by libranof1987 : 6th February 2018 at 14:47.
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Old 6th February 2018, 14:54   #465
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Default Re: Which Automatic Hatch?

My suggestion would be to get a car with a comfortable rear seat and a driver. With relatives in this age group in extended family, I see increasing stress levels to drive/ park.

I admit I am unable to convince them otherwise too. If they would like to take a spin once in a while, then Sunday mornings or late nights should be fine. But for regular errands, chauffeur driven options should be better. Oh, the horror of saying so on this thread!!
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