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Originally Posted by Gansan If the entire "herd" in the forum decides to vote, that poll can go for a toss in no time! |
No offense, Gansan-sir, but a poll on tbhp means nothing in atleast 95% cases - because instead of voting based on the question, everyone votes based on the 'herd' they belong to - Jap, Italian, American, Korean, German etc
. This actually is one of the rare instances when the deserving car has won.
BTW, the Spark being better than the Alto does not take anything away from the Alto, just as the Swift being a better can than Spark doesn't make the Spark a useless car. Different people have different needs/budgets/likes and go for what suits them best. That's all.
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Originally Posted by Gansan I have an affinity for Jap cars, not necessarily Maruti. Somehow Korean and American brands don't attract me. |
While I used FE to support why such gut-instincts are not without basis, there is no need to substantiate our affinity. Some like Jap cars, others like Italian, some Korean and so on. To each his/her own.
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Originally Posted by Gansan When I bought my Alto LXi in June'09, it was a round 3 lakhs on the road. A Spark with similar trim cost 20k more that time. |
When you say 'similar trim' are you referring to LS ? If so, I am confused about the Spark prices now. As per Hammerhead and you, it seems like the LS is just 18-20K more than the Alto-LXi. But kiku007 has booked his LS at 3.57L. Alto-Lxi after all offers is 3.1L OnRoad as of last week. So this is a 50K difference, which IMO does not justify the few features that come on the LS vis-a-vis the LXi.
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Originally Posted by kiku007 Do you think that ABS and Airbags are the only safety features? Atleast when I look at Chevy and Maruti websites, I see that Chevy has some literature on Safety. For Maruti Alto I don't see anything worth mentioning apart from the Side-Impact beams. |
With ABS and airbag, the Spark is definitely safer than the Alto or even a non-ABS/airbag Santro/Estilo/i10/WagonR etc. But given that no one really buys that trim level, there is atmost just a minor difference in safety between Spark, Alto or other cars.
And this is notwithstanding the literature, which just talks of hi-strength steel & a different welding technique, while the front-end design aids pedestrian safety (not occupant safety). You would see similar blah-blah on the Alto site too - collapsible steering column, side-impact beams etc.
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Originally Posted by kiku007 IIRC the Indian Alto was launched in India in 2000 and stopped being exported to Europe in 2004/2005 and the second generation Matiz (Spark) came in 2005. I believe that a newer car to be more safe. Do contest this claim if you may. |
That is the whole problem. We believe that a newer car is better/safer, without any solid reasons. For all practical purposes, the Spark is the old Matiz that has been around for a decade.
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Originally Posted by kiku007 Throwing out old cars - Absolutely. Why have cars that are not relevant to the current days? Coming to the Spark. Like I said earlier, the second gen came in 2005. Do you feel it's not relevant to the current day? |
Ofcourse it is relevant. For you (who have booked it), for my in-laws & for many others, it is a perfect fit for need & budget. Same way, the Alto (and even the M800) does it for many who are at a lower budget - a safer alternative to bikes/autos.
A person driving a Swift-Zxi might think the Spark is poorly built, without safety features and is partly right too. But that does not make the Spark irrelevant. Same way with the Alto. We all are at different levels of the car-chain.
Actually, it is thanks to the Alto that Spark buyers are getting that good a deal. If Alto were not present, GM would not offer these huge discounts.
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Originally Posted by kiku007 You have brought Nano into the picture. My only knowledge on it is what I read on the net, books. Haven't got a chance to drive one. So not fair to speak about what it's worth. |
Agreed. Please ignore the Nano part - that was just given as an example. Already there is a dedicated thread for Nano vs M800 - dont want to add here also.
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Originally Posted by kiku007 Had the M800 and Alto not been there, I reckon we would have seen more development activities on the small car market. |
Expecting MS to withdraw the M800 or Alto since they are old is not going to work. No manufacturer would quit a segment where they have no competition. Instead, other manufacturers should try to break in to that segment and then we can see MS scrambling. The Nano has created competition. Hyundai is coming out with H800 which will hit MS where it hurts. Ford has a hit with the Figo - next step should be to have something in the 2-3L segment. Hopefully other car-cos will also come to this space where MS has a monopoly that needs to be broken. Will take time, but is bound to happen.
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Originally Posted by s3va A bicycle best fits the purpose then! |
Not when there are efficient Jap-cars around. Checkout the FE of the puny i10-Auto. A much more powerful ANHC-AT would give close to 10kmpl in Blore. The superior FE does not come out of thin air - needs R&D and improvement, which is effort-intensive compared to making the interiors beige.
And I am not too much into bicycles - please checkout a bike forum for the same.