[ramkya1]

Originally Posted by vinjosep

I can understand the frustration at not being able to choose a configuration of own choice, even though opting for the top variant.

having said that, doesnt the reply from M&M meet your expectations? It seems you wish to remove the last row, i.e. retain a 2+5 seat config. Is that not possible with the 7-seater side facing? Or is it that the middle row is immovable in this variant?

It's so frustrating...

I would remove the last row, have used my present scorp, 8 seater for 4 years like that. If you fix the side facing last row, the centre seat would have to be fixed, it would not slide back. For me the centre seat sliding back is very important, it slides about half a feet making it comfortable for the passengers. The VLX 4x4 comes in the following config:

1. Airbags (25 K extra) with the 8 seater, the centre seat slides.
2. Centre seat fixed with the back row side facing.
3. Centre 2 captain seats and the back seat a full forward facing bench. If you open the back door you would see the bench blocking most of the luggage space.

I felt the reply from M&M was rigid in posture and sort of closed to the issue of flexibility. I know of customer service car company personnel force/ cajole dealers to make these fine adjustments for the customer, which is a possibility. Neither M&M or ASC are even going through the motions of a try.

Originally Posted by khoj

Hi ramkya1,

Congratulations on your new booking.
While I do not have an answer to any of your queries above, I do have a question for you. Why didn't you opt for the airbags in the first instance itself that is prior to the booking s/w showing that as a necessary option.

I started the discussions with ASC (dealer) WITHOUT airbags, the quote was without airbags the PO was without an airbag. The reasons, will PM you. If I put them up here, it would hijack the thread into another direction and loose focus

--Ramky
-----

[phamilyman]

Originally Posted by Zappo

While I know that the mail you posted from the M&M Product Manager (unfortunately with warts, moles, tags and everything else intact from your copy-paste exercise) reads a little patronizing I am not very sure that I still understood the meaning of this thread in its complete sense. Are you complaining that why Mahindra makes its vehicle in a certain confirguration and will not change that for a sole customer? That too when the customer is a loyal, repeat one? If that is really the crux of the matter, have you otherwise found out any other manufacturer in India who will oblige you with a custom configuration if you buy a car?

I'd quite agree with Zappo here. Its not warm but its not really patronizing - just maybe trying to oversell in a dumbass way but that's it.

Originally Posted by condor

@Ramky, what you have asked for would be considered by M&M as customization. Putting in two seats of a different config is just as complicated as adding Airbags / TCS/ 4x4.

They possibly think that it should be done only on the assembly line. Any small change will upset the equilibrium of the entire set-up, and cannot be done outside of the manufacturing process.

Then again, M&M is not alone in this.

Agree absolutely. They work on assembly line - not customizations.

Originally Posted by anilisanil

@Ramkya1- I did not quite get you. You are saying either of these things.

1) You want a model which is manufactured by M&M but since the sales person is unable to place an order for That model you are appalled with M&M service.

2) You want a model that is not in production at all by M&M and are appalled with M&M for the same.


If it is 1 (which does not seem the case from mail) then it is a sad state of affairs. But if it is two, then no one can help. Just like you just cannot get Swift diesel with air bags (not as yet) you just cannot get that 4X4 as an eight seater.

Just my thoughts

Originally Posted by comfortablynumb

While I would be the last person to defend M&M and it's "customer oriented" policies, I don't understand why this reponse is shocking.

I agree that your pre-sales and sales experience wasn't anything to write home about and also that the dealer should have informed you about 4x4 without airbags being available only in 7 seater config before you paid the advance. However, I really don't see anything amiss in M&M informing you of this fact. It's almost akin to saying that the 4x4 isn't available in the LX or SLE variants. What's the big deal?

Cheers,
Vikram

Yup again.

Originally Posted by ramkya1

1. The copy paste exercise with warts, moles, tags and everything else was not to distort it with my words. Is this OK and within the policy? If not you may delete the thread.

2. The point of the thread? To highlight how absurd the configuration is for off roading, with all electrical gizmos and body claddings in full paint, customer has no choice and the point that in the past they have changed the same for one customer, namely me.

Case in point: I bought an LX Scorpio in 2007, August 8th, came with the side facing seats with old front bumpers and central fixed seats. They changed it to centre sliding seats, last front facing bench and the front bumper with air dams.

What has changed now? More sales, less sensitivity to customer needs?

To get my problem solved, I have taken my case to the highest in M&M. I wanted to know if others are facing similar problems and how did they solve it?

Is this the right thread, if not, you may move it to the right tone too.

Thanks,

--Ramky

There are two questions:
a. Last time, did the dealer oblige you or M&M?
b. Honestly, M&M as a manufacturer cannot affordably respond to every single customer customization request - what you want ain't rocket science but big companies just don't customize. else their work would be messy

Infact, I'd be very interested to know what Tata does. Does the mfr change the assembly line for you or does it get done at the dealer end?

PS: Its klutzy (wrong vehicle order/misinformation) but not exactly shocking in the exact tone of the title!
PPS: Yes, the configuration is absurd but such is life - it happens all the time. I wish maruti gave me a LDI+ABS+Airbags but they don't. So I lump it and move on.
PPPS: Of course, you may get pissed, but the rational side of you should say, just like 13L - 25k more and let's just get the vehicle you want. As for Tata, if U buy it - I'd love to see your objective report post purchase.

[ramkya1]

Originally Posted by phamilyman

There are two questions:
a. Last time, did the dealer oblige you or M&M?
b. Honestly, M&M as a manufacturer cannot affordably respond to every single customer customization request - what you want ain't rocket science but big companies just don't customize. else their work would be messy

Infact, I'd be very interested to know what Tata does. Does the mfr change the assembly line for you or does it get done at the dealer end?

PS: Its klutzy (wrong vehicle order/misinformation) but not exactly shocking in the exact tone of the title!
PPS: Yes, the configuration is absurd but such is life - it happens all the time. I wish maruti gave me a LDI+ABS+Airbags but they don't. So I lump it and move on.
PPPS: Of course, you may get pissed, but the rational side of you should say, just like 13L - 25k more and let's just get the vehicle you want. As for Tata, if U buy it - I'd love to see your objective report post purchase.

The letter was shocking and patronizing for me. It still appears to. Maybe after a couple of days I'd look at it a little less involved and the shock would wear off

I am collecting mails, records and files of the old purchase. I sent mail to the same ASC, they gave the same answers as this time (all on record) but in the end gave me what I wanted. I had FRIENDS inside M&M who go it done, when it reached A'bad it was in the config. I wanted. The salesman who did the sale closely followed up with me for 3 months to get the sale done, he's with Skoda now and will remember all the details, will contact him today.

I agree that no company with all requests to customize and survive in volume competition. Can they inform the customer they will customize it and will charge you a little extra? What Tata does, I will have to find out, fortunately the Tata sales guy is inside our friends circle here. Post purchase? I am slowly moving there, not yet there.

I know life is absurd and many things gets pushed down your throat. I have eaten humble pie in life and would do that again to be objective, such is life indeed.

25 K more? Well, you are right there, will try that too today hoping the system would accept the order. 25 K more makes much more financial sense to me as the car has to be invoiced before September 30th to catch the 20% depreciation bracket.

--Ramky
=====

[phamilyman]

Boss dekho,

I only know one thing - both these mfrs have horrible A.S.S (compared to a maruti) but honestly, Tata is worse off (atleast in delhi). The only shop where my bro can take his 75k run indica for assured repairs 90% of the time is Elegant(20km away), which is actually a Fiat ASC originally and now handles a bit of tata - but atleast they are genuine.

Ditto for another relative in another part of the country - who has a close professional relationship with the ASC owner but his <10k driven car has already been to the workshop 4 times for malfunctioning sensors (and still not solved).

Why does someone like tsk have to come from noida to ggn whenever its a major service or (yet another) warranty replacement. Why?

You must realize that some organizations just have better DNA for trouble free cars. Tata isn't there yet.

[condor]

Originally Posted by ramkya1

What Tata does, I will have to find out,

Tata makes it really simple for you in this situation: There is no option for a 8 seater !! It's 7 seats all the way. No shift & slide of the mid-row seat.

We have been there with Tata also. There's been enough discussion why Tata cannot give us ABS as an option for atleast the LX models. The only time they came close was with the GX. But now only the VX carries the 4x4 option. They call it rationalization. For me it is

Maruti for me is even worse. Petrol Swifts get it all. The diesel Swifts do not even get a rear-wash & wipe. Forget ABS. As if diesel engines & fuel and ABS/R-W-W are mutually incompatible.

Ramky, it's repeat order for you, and repeat order for M&M. Only diff is - it's 100% for you, but for M&M, over the life of your ownership of this one, you are just one in 10000's of customers. What would you do if a regular customer of I-pharma sends in aa order asking for one box of 10's blister pack instead of a standard 15's blister pack ?

[phamilyman]

ok, now let me put it in simpler words the way I see it:

a. You got what you wanted the last time because you had a friend in on the inside. In which case, the dealer just collects the money/delivers the vehicle but the real jugaad is done by your friend on the inside. Jugaad meaning personal attention and bending rules.

at the factory, not at the dealer.

b. The dealer has given the same answer earlier - This time around your friend is not there to manage things on the inside. THAT is the key differentiator.

c. This time around you contacted the dealership but:
- There is no friend to push your case on the inside (you haven't said that but its implied)
- The salesman isn't there and a new guy will not know what happened 4 years back. Lot of water under the bridge since then. Shoddy salesmanship/turnaround but that's not the point.
- Then you shoot off an email to the customer service guys. Who don't know you and will give you the standard reply with a positive acknowledgement and a klutzy spiel. Again, NOT patronizing. EVEN if your friend was around and he knew it - he would not in 90% cases commit to such customization to you. Its his job on the line, not yours. Courtesy your friend, he may do it, but he surely won't commit on email in most cases.
- Of course, you are a repeat customer, but for an average company, you are still too small to bother customizing for. Atleast in my limited knowledge, even for fleet purchases, things are handled by the dealer. The company may just help sweeten the deal for a bulk (read 70-80 vehicle) order but not customize anything themselves as a matter of rule.

Then you get pissed and post incomplete information on TBHP (the bit about your friend is the real thing).

Somewhere I think your emotions overcame you and if you'd read it as someone thread, with your HR head honcho hat, maybe you'd just find it all understandable and maybe retitle the thread as "Mahindra turns down minor customization request for a scorpio repeat purchase". My tuppence.

Now chill and go buy a scorpio wonlee

Standard big corporation CYA bureaucratic jawab - nothing shocking about it.

@Condor: Yeah. I hate the fact that there's no ZDi. Shameless buggers.

[narayanang76]

Originally Posted by ramkya1

I am doing a TD of the Safari tomorrow, let's see what pans out.

--Ramky

Ramky: This doesn't attend to your concern (8 seater and sliding middle seats) fully right? Then why?

I somehow feel like Scorp is the vehicle for you, try to see how you can get there again?

Cheers
narayanang76

[ramkya1]

@ Phamilyman: Incomplete informaton? Yes, we all have freedom to think and see what we want!!

Maybe you are aware, any organization that purchases more than 7 is an important customer for most dealers here, don't know about your parts. We are rated as important and expecting to be treated as one is objective.

Today morning I got a call (will share details after I get the car) looks like my mails did hit something and someone up there does care for a repeat customer, I'd get what I want, the order is being processed today.

If they had declined, I would still have taken the airbags with 25 K extra for the 8 seater and moved on; contrary to what you think, I'm used to rejections too

@ Narayan: I think I'd get the car I want. The centre seat in Safari does not need any sliding, it's executive class!! I've traveled long distance in middle seat of a Safari when we did the GQ trip, one could live in there.

@F150: Your PM: I'd rather not share my mails to M&M here now; loose cannons would upset my apple cart, may be later.

--Ramky

Originally Posted by phamilyman

ok, now let me put it in simpler words the way I see it ....................

Then you get pissed and post incomplete information on TBHP (the bit about your friend is the real thing).

Somewhere I think your emotions overcame you and if you'd read it as someone thread, with your HR head honcho hat, maybe you'd just find it all understandable and maybe retitle the thread as "Mahindra turns down minor customization request for a scorpio repeat purchase". My tuppence.

.............

Originally Posted by condor

Tata ................
What would you do if a regular customer of I-pharma sends in aa order asking for one box of 10's blister pack instead of a standard 15's blister pack ?

I think its easy in Pharma. I'd find out his need, talk to him, tell him to meet my friendly chemist nearby. I'd request the shop to cut 10 it out of 15, give him brand names that has 10's packing, generics that would come in any which way you want (equi-potent). There are many solutions if I try hard enough.

I guess it all boils down to what's your approach to CRM and what systems you have to ensure customer delight. Is it lip service or do you have the guts to execute it? Do you have systems and processes to reduce the execution gap? In Ahmedabad, Honda, Toyota, Maruti, Hyndai and recently even Ford dealers do it pretty well.

--Ramky
---------

Note from the Team-BHP Support Team: Please use the "edit" button if posting within 30 minutes of the first post, instead of creating another back-to-back post.

Also use "Multi Quote" option for quoting Multiple posts.

[NetfreakBombay]

Originally Posted by ramkya1

Non-refundable, transferable advance of Rs.2 lacs along with the PO.

Did you have to give this amount of 2 lakh with PO?

And is dealership willing to refund it because it was a error on their end ? Error since they accepted PO for a configuration that does not exist. (If you choose to not go ahead with purchase)

[ramkya1]

Originally Posted by NetfreakBombay

Did you have to give this amount of 2 lakh with PO?

And is dealership willing to refund it because it was a error on their end ? Error since they accepted PO for a configuration that does not exist. (If you choose to not go ahead with purchase)

The PO was for 8 seater, the advance was for 8 seater, the cheque is deposited for Rs.2 L toady, I have till 3 PM today to give stop payment, once paid as per terms of Quote, it's non refundable or non transferable.

Once the ASC gets the money, then refund is at his pleasure or by my power. Naturally they want me to go ahead with the purchase and I want to buy, so the question of refund has not been tabled, I am not worried as the refund is the ASC decision and I would be able to get it from them. They have the month end sales numbers to do so would be very keen to book this into the system.

--Ramky
======

[DukeSan27]

ramkya1, you seem to be putting only half information in this thread, the rest you are keeping to yourself till things are sorted out to your staisfaction.

IMHO, please come back and post after this issues is sorted out and you are able to comment freely. Till then I don't think anything useful will come out of this thread.

[revintup]

Or is it that the middle row is immovable in this variant?


Middle row sliding is available only in 8seater configuration.However i think the bucket seats in the middle row might be more comfortable even though leg space is lesser than an 8 seater slid all the way back.

[NetfreakBombay]

Originally Posted by ramkya1

The PO was for 8 seater, the advance was for 8 seater, the cheque is deposited for Rs.2 L toady, I have till 3 PM today to give stop payment, once paid as per terms of Quote, it's non refundable or non transferable.

Might be better to put stop payment now.. getting money back (from anyone) is not a pleasant experience.

[.anshuman]

Originally Posted by vinjosep

retain a 2+5 seat config. Is that not possible with the 7-seater side facing? Or is it that the middle row is immovable in this variant?

The Middle row can only be adjusted through slide in either 8 seater or Captain seats variant. The middle seats in 7 seater side facing last row cannot be adjusted.

[phamilyman]

Sarkar,

aapne toh dil pe le liya - though I can completely understand your frustration this time around. Let us see how any dispassionate observer will read your thread.

a. The 1st post does not contain the full picture - the friend who could get the configuration changed at assembly is a complete game changer. He is not mentioned. I just re-read it twice.

b. I'm again only repeating the important customer bit from my experience - down in Hyd. The dealer customized the vehicles there - no major alterations were done from the factory itself. Total was some 30-35 odd fleet of vehicles.

c. I talk of you having gotten pissed because you speak of going from M&M to Tata, which is too much of a reactive stance in my opinion (post #3). Why punish yourself because of M&M's current rigid stance?


lastly, the only thing the last post meant was to help you step outside your current frustration and look at it as an unbiased observer - something u would do as a top HR honcho, no?!

Originally Posted by ramkya1

@ Phamilyman: Incomplete informaton? Yes, we all have freedom to think and see what we want!!

Maybe you are aware, any organization that purchases more than 7 is an important customer for most dealers here, don't know about your parts. We are rated as important and expecting to be treated as one is objective.

Today morning I got a call (will share details after I get the car) looks like my mails did hit something and someone up there does care for a repeat customer, I'd get what I want, the order is being processed today.

If they had declined, I would still have taken the airbags with 25 K extra for the 8 seater and moved on; contrary to what you think, I'm used to rejections too