[ankitahuja]

Gurgaon folks: What do you have to say about the IBP / IO bunk that comes to your left, after you enter from Shanker Chowk (cross Ericsson / RBS). And which also has an AXIS ATM and Cafe Coffee Day?

I've always felt refinement in the engine's running after fuelling up from there.

[hrag]

Originally Posted by DWind

Chennai guys! Please help me. I had filled up at the IOC bunk in LB Road (once) and the IOC bunk near Guru Nanak (twice) owned by Parveen Travels and the diesel quality has not been great! Any other reliable places? Please let me know.

IOC at Lattice Bridge Road, Adayar - used to have a good impression of them until they tried to con me recently.

The BP bunk next to Adayar Bakery on Sardar Patel Road is now decent - they don't try to con anymore! Gayatri (IOC) at Adayar Signal is also OK. As is the BP bunk next to Malar Hospital.

However, at all bunks, watch the number of attendants. More than 1 servicing you is a con job being attempted.

You could try Shell at Pallikaranai on the Velachery - Tambaram Road.

Idumban Brothers on Durgabai Deshmukh Road (next to Satya Studios, now known as MGR Janaki College, opposite Andhra Mahila Sabha Hospital) is good if you go down that road once in a while.

[Dr.Sumit Bhatti]

Originally Posted by dadu

Please Remember to send a complaint and only then can we make a difference, shying away lets the dealer operate unchecked.

With all due respect, if you all could imagine fuel to be a 'drug'; then
this is like catching a drug addict or drug peddler on the street and bringing it to the notice of the drug lord or kingpin and expecting appropriate action to be taken !

As long as cheap hydrocarbons are available, adulteration will never stop.
We, as citizens of India, must insist that all hydrocarbon compounds should be similarly priced and none should be subsidized directly.
Subsidy for the poor is welcome, but why not reimburse it through ration cards at Post Offices ( India has the largest network) or PSU banks?

At least, then, no one can claim thousands of liters in subsidy without being detected !

But when Kerosene and Napthalene is available really cheap and Petrol and Diesel are very expensive, the monetary gap is generous enough to cover all 'costs' of adulteration and then make a hefty profit !

A simple solution to a complex situation.

[Dr.Sumit Bhatti]

Originally Posted by dadu

Dont look at the "Rupees" counter look at the fuel disbursed counter.
If the meter jumps to 200 (thats what it does), the ltr counter in the meter will show some vague figure like 0.01 0.02 etc. You can show them that and get the fuel filled again with no payment.[/b]

Originally Posted by shyamhegde

..the other guy hooked the pipe to the car and told me 'saar jero' it was showing 8888.88 and re-set to zero. (8888.88 and then zero has to appear)...
It seems all petrol bunk attendants are trying to fool the customers and make some quick and easy money.

This peculiar problem was rampant over the last decade, especially with the Z-line dispensing pumps manufactured by L&T.

For many years, W&M Department carried out raids at Petrol Stations based on written customer complaints but found nothing!

Normally, a Petrol or Diesel dispensing unit is calibrated and tested from meter reading 0000.00 to 0005.00 liters. A few times in the late 90's, the W&M staff started testing 000.00 to 0005.00 to 0010.00 to 0015.00 to 0020.00 and so on, even stopping often, with jerks and sharp cut-offs, but not resetting to zero (0000.00). Still nothing.

One day, a Hero Honda bike customer claimed only half his normal mileage. But he insisted that he saw the initial zero (0000.00) and the final reading (0002.00) vigilantly.

Then a customer swore on his little child's head that he had diligently seen:
1. The initial reading of the previous customer, say xxxx.xx (liter)
2. The reading changing to 8888.88 (why does this happen? - To show that all of the display is working properly.)
3. The reading reset to 0000.00
4. The final reading of his fill, say xxxx.xx
Yet his mileage was low; he had been cheated.

This was mind boggling !

If you keep a petrol dispenser switched on and running for some time, it pushes some fuel at times into the standard flexible four meter rubber hose which expands slightly to end up as a reading 0000.01 or 0000.02. This is a genuine loss to the petrol pump cashier (attendant) if he is forced to reset again. This is a common occurence if the hose is extended to the other side of a vehicle where the fill cap is located on the other side with relation to the dispensing unit.

Then my brother, who is an Engineer started experimenting with various techniques of starting and stopping the dispensing pump. Half an hour later, he came up with an explanation for this 'magical' theft right under the nose of the customer and which no one except scores of illiterate/ semi-literate pump attendants were privy to (by word of mouth) and which the best minds in the country had never figured out !!

Continued in the next post.

[Dr.Sumit Bhatti]

The L&T dispensing unit reading would change in the following order:
1. Previous reading 00xx.xx
2. 8888.88 (as explained earlier)
3. 0000.00 (zero)
4. Final meter reading, say 00xx.xx ( billing quantity)

There is a few seconds gap between the steps 1 & 2. Another time gap follows 2 & 3 while you are watching (in quick succession).

While this is happening, it is possible to siphon off up to 1 liter of Petrol and up to 2 liters of Diesel with practice, to a point just before the zero (0000.00) reading comes up ! However, the dispensing unit cannot be switched off and must wait for the next hapless victim who comes along and will be shown -"saab jheero" again and again !!

The computer chip memory inside the display, however records the siphoned out quantity in spite of the fact that the meter reading is 0000.00

When the actual delivery starts, the meter jumps to the siphoned quantity and then resumes normal flow reading giving the visual impression of having jumped from 0000.00 to say 0000.90 then running smoothly at a slower rate.

Some customers who are looking at the amount window in multiple display units will see an initial jump in the Rupees amount window.

It is almost humanly impossible to concentrate on both quantity and amount readings simultaneously.

So we dashed off a detailed letter to our parent oil company and a cc to L&T.

Continued in the next post.

[Dr.Sumit Bhatti]

Two grumpy men approached us the next week. First, they demanded to know the qualification of the Petrol Dealer who wrote the letter. When they were told, one of them back slapped the other and said " I told you, it has to be an engineer who figured this out !"

They turned out to be L&T engineers. They said that they had just received the worst firing of their lives from their higher-ups!

They also conceded that this was the first letter that not only explained all the problems in detail, but also offered solutions.

One of them turned out to be my brother's senior from his college.

They explained why this sequence was generated. Cashiers complained about monetary loss because of the slight shift in the meters to 0000.01 or 0000.02 if the dispensing unit was on for along time as explained earlier. So L&T overrode the initial sensitivity of the meter reading. Up to 0000.20 would not show up and instead remained at 0000.00, but stored in the chip's memory.


A disastrous fallout of this step is still there to see at many Petrol Pumps even now.

Now L&T offered to re-program and replace the offending chip @ Rs. 6,000/- per chip. If anybody now tried to siphon fuel, the sequence would abort. They did a very good re-programming job.

Another key modification is that a dispenser motor shuts off automatically after idling for 40 seconds. This was for instances often discussed by BHP-ians in various threads where the dispensing unit was never reset from the previous customer's reading and the dispenser was kept running (on), often by wedging a small stone below the sensor lever in the cradle for the nozzle to give the impression of a shut off dispensing unit. ( This would also raise the Petrol Dealers' electricity bill many fold !!)

They gave me a complimentary change, but there are lakhs of such z-line units all over the country, (due to the sheer logistical cost, nothing's been done till date) manufactured in the mid 90's, and still functional because dispensing units are changed after 20,00,000 liters and not on a time scale policy!

Now in 2009, in many large cities new generation units from Tatsuno, Gilbarco, Schlumberger, Dresser-Wayne and other makes have replaced these units, but many Petrol Pumps still have these z-line dispensers.

More on these new generation units later. ;-)

What has always amazed me is how illiterate / semi- literate pump attendants out foxed everybody for so long and are still doing so with impunity. Compares with a secret society like the Free Masons !

"saab jheero dekho"
Mera Bharat Mahan !

For similar Indian ingenuity please refer to the thread ' How to ascertain purity of diesel ' :-)

[hrag]

Originally Posted by hrag

IOC at Lattice Bridge Road, Adayar - used to have a good impression of them until they tried to con me recently.

However, at all bunks, watch the number of attendants. More than 1 servicing you is a con job being attempted.

I had heard a lot of complaints from many people and had stopped going to this place after they tried to con me. However, yesterday morning I had no choice as my tank was almost dry and this is the closest to my place.

I was very pleasantly surprised to see that this bunk has undergone a complete change - in terms of staff attitude. Only 1 attendant per customer now and no visible attempts at conning. Maybe too many people complained against them.

A good way to test a bunk is to take a 2-litre PET bottle and ask them to fill 2 litres. There are bunks which refuse to do this, and not just for safety.

[ImmortalZ]

The IOC pump near Karamana in TVM tried to cheat me this week. I've been going there in recent times because it is very spacious and I could get my air pressure checked without having to do gymnastics on the steering wheel.

While they took my card, the lady who was supposed to fill the petrol went to the filler cap. The dude who took my card kept asking me whether I wanted a bill. But I was keeping my eye on the dispenser and she started dispensing when the reading was at 1.000 L. I calmly told him that she didn't reset it and told him flatly that I'm not coming there again. He was very apologetic and made sure I got my fill. But I'm sticking to my guns. I'll just have to find some other pump.

[Dr.Sumit Bhatti]

Here's another trick:

When some newer model fuel pumping units or dispensers are pre-set to, say, Rs. 500.00 and then are shut off from the nozzle at, say, Rs. 400.00, before they dispense the full Rs. 500.00 worth of fuel, the amount entered, in this case, Rs. 500.00 will start flashing a few seconds after the Rs. 400.00 reading because there is no other way for the pumping unit or dispenser to tell you that Rs. 500.00 worth of fuel has not been filled !

This flashing meter reading is shown to an unsuspecting customer as the final reading. If the customer realizes, pumping is simply continued !

I saw this trick at a 'holier than thou could imagine' COCO or a COCMO (Company Owned Company Managed Outlet)

[blacmagic]

folks, I have a suggestion to make. when marking a pump as good / bad, why not use Wikimapia - Let's describe the whole world! to do so?
and include tBHP user handle: good pump (or) bad pump?

have a feeling its going to be of great use within and beyond tBHP.

since its a free to edit application, its entirely possible for people with vested interests to delete or even reverse what has been marked, but a little persistence on our part should handle that problem if everybody periodically checked and updated [if needed] all pumps within, say, 10 km of their residence.

just a nascent idea. let the brainstorming begin!

[Dr.Sumit Bhatti]

Originally Posted by blacmagic

folks, why not use Wikimapia and include tBHP user handle: good pump (or) bad pump within, say, 10 km of their residence.
just a nascent idea. let the brainstorming begin!

As more private petrol pumps open up and there is now a choice within the same area, it is no longer necessary to be forced to go to a petrol pump that one dislikes.

In the past, this was not possible because of 'Volume and distance norms' from the Petroleum Ministry which were included in the marketing plan of all PSU companies. They decided where you filled your fuel. See Annexure II at ANNEXURE

We should, instead, create a scenario where malpractice is not possible. Please read the following links:

Post # 819 http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian...ml#post1182733

Post # 820 http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian...ml#post1182745

Post # 198 in this thread: http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian...ml#post1182742

[blacmagic]

Doctor, I fully agree with what you say. however, fuel companies and vendors cannot be converted to saints overnight.
in the meantime, we need a way to be able to know whether a pump is delivering good or bad fuel. updating that info as individual posts in this thread is not an ideal solution. to begin with, the information is not uniformly presented. it cannot be indexed or searched efficiently.
marking spots on a map is way better than saying "Santa Singh Petrol Pump near the fish market dispenses good petrol and Banta Singh Adulterated Fuel near the mental hospital gives you petrol flavored water".
the list needs to be up to date, easily accessible and versatile.

once we have this information and begin to patronize the relatively honest pumps, we will have taken the first step towards achieving what you so rightly mentioned in your previous post.

[sreenivass]

Hyderabad THPians any suggestions on pumps between Tolichowki and Gachibowli, I have moved this side recently, I would like to to know which are better fuel stations here.

[nitrous]

Originally Posted by Dr.SumilBhati

I saw this trick at a 'holier than thou could imagine' COCO or a COCMO (Company Owned Company Managed Outlet)

Holier than thou??
I'll show you dacoits disguised as attendants in COCOs!

[Dr.Sumit Bhatti]

Originally Posted by nitrous

Holier than thou??
I'll show you dacoits disguised as attendants in COCOs!

True, what else can you expect @ 6 paise per liter commission for the COCO labor contractor ?

Jokes aside, please read a sample of the terms and conditions under Section 10. at this link: DRAFT OF ADVERTISEMENT TO BE ISSUED FOR ENGAGEMENT OF SERVICE PROVIDER