[throttleking]

Being an auto enthusiast I always respected every car and every automobile manufacturer for their effort. Especially had a tremendous respect for Tata despite of seeing open feedback from many owners about poor quality and service. And much more respected the legendary Tata Safari, which made it to million hearts so easily. However, I never thought that owning a dream car will actually give me nightmares, and people at Millennium Mobility in Pune will make my life miserable.

Even after owning a Japanese Maruti Wagon R, American Ford Ikon, and American Chevy Optra Magnum, I seem to have not learnt my lesson, and made that big mistake. And finally purchased a dream SUV, TATA Safari. Chevy ownership for 4 years was like dream come true.

How much can you go wrong when making a decision? See how Tata's great dealer in Pune ensured that I start on a wrong foot. Following is my purchase experience, tremendous mental agony and followed by huge frustration. Not because of the vehicle yet, but because of the people at TATA.

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian...fresh-car.html

This delivery experience was not enough, as I thought. And the saga of extremely poor quality and service continues after I got the delivery. Not to blame anybody but to myself that I waited for 7 months for a stupid niggling issue and did not escalate it. I am in tremendous anger at this moment, however controlling my language and words.

After I got the delivery of fresh vehicle in Dec 2011, within 2 weeks, driver side power window started getting jammed while rolling up. And I made a first visit to workshop within 300kms of ownership. Service adviser nicely sprayed some lubricant in door beading (Glass Run) and apparently window was then rolling up and down smoothly. Took back the vehicle, and within 4 days window started getting jammed again. Another visit to workshop, one more spray session and a promise to look into the issue during first service i.e. 1500kms. Again within a week, window not functioning as desired. This time I chose not to use the window until I finished 1500kms. And gave it for first service, job card report said issue resolved. Again in within a week or so, window refused to go up, visited workshop again, but this time I raised my voice a little bit. Service Adviser (SA) said we need to change the glass run. However part is not available, and we will call you as soon as the part arrives. Another spray session and I came back home.

Follow-ups for 2 months, but nothing happens. After a while they don’t even remember me, and I have to explain every time what the problem is. 5 months of ownership pass by, but no communication on glass run, Reason? Their internal ERP application not working, so they cannot order the part. C’mon TATA! Finally I lose my shirt, and decided to call up sales guy, who knew what I had gone through during sales. And I told him boss this is so pathetic, you guys can’t solve such stupid problem, and gave him some bashing. I get a call from SA, and he says, sir I will arrange the part from outside, give me 3-4 days. Two more weeks pass by, but no revert. I call back and this time I blast at them. Within 2 hours a mech came to my office with glass run and replaced it in 15 mins.

Took a satisfactory sigh and thought finally the niggle is over. But to my surprise within another 2-3 weeks, window again begin to behave in a same fashion. And this time, probably my 15th visit to workshop again for power window issue. SA requested me to leave the vehicle for some time so that they can investigate in detail. I said keep it now, but they had much load that day, so refused. Another spray session and I came back home. Immediately in next week I went back, SA was on leave as it was his birthday, I wished him through sms and asked the other guys to look into the issue. But no takers, and then one more time I escalated to their GM, who then asked some senior guy to look into the issue.

Mech tried to re-align the glass, and also bent the door frame as well. And it looked like problem is solved. Drove to Mumbai same evening, and there was huge air noise coming from the driver side door, it was so unbearable that I had turn of the music, as it was creating a very irritating mixture of noise. It was raining, at the toll I rolled down the window and when rolled it up, glass managed to simply slide out of the door beading allowing rain water and air to flow directly onto me (Driver side). Totally frustrated, I managed to put the glass back in place and decided to avoid the use.

Came back to pune, called the SA with totally in a frustrated tone, and he said sir I will arrange the pick-up and will get it resolved. And this was the beginning of some more frustration on my way. Another followup session for next 2-3 days, and their smart receptionist calls me to confirm the booking, she was not informed that I need the pick-up, and upon asking, she says there will be Rs. 150 charge for pick and drop facility? Charge for what? For going through so much pain in last 7 months?

So repeated the whole episode to her on phone. Driver came this morning at 9.30am and took the vehicle. Till 1pm no call back from them, called the SA and but he is in hospital, so he suggested that another SA will call me. 2.30pm no call back, called the driver, called receptionist, called customer care executive, but all waste. at 3pm I get the sms with new SA's number, I called him, and smart fellow says I haven't taken the vehicle for work yet, and you will get it tomorrow.

Enough is enough, called all three guys one last time and told them, one this will be escalated to TATA, two I want my car back in half an hour with or without problem fixed and three I am not going to recommend Millennium Mobility to anyone again.

And trust me, in this 7 month episode, there are many other things that happened which I have not highlighted here, but are true example of pathetic quality, service and extremely poor processes and policies in place.

10000kms, 7 months, and 15+ visits to workshop for stupid power window issue. How much I heisted to use that power window, and how many times I had to stop at toll naka, mcds, security checks, and even to say a goodbye to a friend, and I had to open the door instead of rolling down the window. Two important long tours were done with a constant frustration of this niggling issue in my head all the time.

While I am writing here, I got a call from the driver saying that they have taken the vehicle for fixing the issue, and will be delivered today itself. Heck, I dont care now. Why do you need to get things done on priority only when customer threatens to escalate? Damage is done Tata and Millennium! How stupid I was to call the same sales guy yesterday to inquire about Tata Nano for my wife. Thank god, I did not proceed further on that front.

My love for Tata Safari is not over yet, but love for Tata is definitely over. How much I appreciated their brave moves in past, will be openly discourage in future. I will continue to own Safari, as far as possible. If I don’t get the satisfactory service from other TATA dealers in the city, I will got to non-authorized workshop, heck I wont care for warranty.

I have been very nice with everyone in last 7 months, despite of having so many sources to get it right. Even wished the SA on his birth day, though I was in my utmost anger at that moment. And this is what they paid back.

[raj_5004]

Sad. I thought TATA's A.S.S. has improved over the years.

Why did you not write a mail to the customer care of TATA yet? If you did, what was their response?

[Trojan]

This is really very sad and the already non-existing customer service taken to a new level I had read your previous post as well, all the hassles which you faced

(OT) incidentally I advised my friend on the same, he had also booked a Safari, and told him to be careful, but he was given an a damaged vehicle as well

I think you should take guys to task this time even if the work gets done, if it does not you should ask for the replacement of the power window kit, window, beadings, motor or maybe the door itself for getting a foolproof solution.

A car is supposed to have some functions which we pay for, and if they dont then it is definitely the manufacturers responsibility to get this rectified.

Tata sales people just dont care for customers, be it Millenium or Pandit they are all the same.
Please dont let them get away, and follow it up till you get a proper response.
This is nothing short of cheating by selling sub-standard products and then make the customer do the run around.

[throttleking]

Originally Posted by raj_5004

Sad. I thought TATA's A.S.S. has improved over the years.

Why did you not write a mail to the customer care of TATA yet? If you did, what was their response?

Raj, it was sheer stupidity on my part that I did not escalate. After I started this thread, I also reported the complaint on their website, lets see if they take any action now. However I lost respect for TATA in totality.

Driver is getting the car back in next 15 mins. Problem not resolved, door bidding to be change again, and that part is not available. Same old stupid story, its only their incapability.

Millennium Mobility does not carry a good reputation from their former Maruti Dealership, and now I know why.

[selfdrive]

Its indeed bad to get a reminder what we go through as consumers here. I thought these problems existed only at Pandit Auto, but it looks like it is tolerated elsewhere too.

This very issue of niggles is why most of us stay away from Tata products. And this probably shows in the sales numbers of their costlier cars, such as the Aria.
I have a Nano and it has a few niggles. Unfortunately there is no solution provided and everything is always a jugaad or workaround. I will never buy another Tata car, it is just that I dont like dealing with daily niggles, especially irritating if the same niggle pops up every day.

Edit: I am no expert in dealing with them, but as they are proving to be so unprofessional and not helping you at all, please ensure you name and shame every person in your escalation.

[R2D2]

throttleking, I sympathise with your situation but let me tell you that it is very similar to the experience that my bro faced with his 2002 Safari. Looks like these guys haven't changed their attitude towards QC much in 10 years!

And this is precisely why I get amused when I see posts defending Tata - sure it has its good points but reliability and safety are paramount to me. Let me be the first to tell you that I really loved the Safari and just enjoyed driving it. She was slow, ponderous (with the old 90 BHP, i think, diesel engine) but such a pleasure on the highways and one felt quite safe given the bulk and it would clear city traffic in a jiffy.

This was my bro's experience:

1)Driver's side window jamming - repaired under warranty

2) Driver's side window motor failure - replaced under warranty

3) Driver's side window wiring harness failure - replaced under warranty

4) LHS Front disc brake assembly failed - the caliper pin came right off and with it the assembly and the rubber hose was ripped off too! He was lucky that he was in city limits in Mumbai and just about to depart to Pune. We shuddered to think what would have happened had it occured on the E'way. - Replaced under warranty - they also got an earful from me and my bro.

Relatively minor issues:

a) Bulbs fusing every month/2 months - including headlamp, dashboard lights
b) Headlamp assembly slowly turning opaque/misty white
c) Water in HL assembly and tail lamps
d) Horns would function intermittently
e) Wiper blades (Syndicate) would crack and needed replacement every 6 months.
f) Engine oil leakage from the tappet cover, consumption about 1 litre engine oil every 1200 kms.

All the while, the ASC at that time, BU Bhandari was very understanding and they went out of their way to repair and replace parts where necessary. But there's only so much a ASC can do to repair the car and keep it in good running condition when the root cause was poor quality of components.

Over time, especially due to the brake issue, we lost faith in the vehicle, maintaining it was a pain in the neck and it was sold it off in mid 2005, when just under 3 years old.

Will I or my family buy a Tata vehicle again? Highly unlikely.

[S@ndy]

Oh my God! You surely have had faced a bad time! Tata, though being one of the largest home made companies know Indian market well but still they never learn from their mistakes. Even my brother faced the ditto same issue you have faced right now. He had made more than 20 visits to dealership and came back happy but after some time, became frowned! He at last dumped off his TATA vehicle and resolve to never buy a Tata again!

S@ndy

[a4anurag]

What is TATA upto?!

Beats me to the core guys. I mean what are the higer up's doing sitting on their tables? Don't they understand that "Customer is GOD"

If you don't treat/satisfy your customers then they will not return to you again and spread a bad word. The whole of the nation is singing bad about TATA its dealerships and service centres. Aren't they worried of loosing the market share or they are happy by selling the Indica as a taxi vehicle.

Ratan Tata now just start reading the threads on Team-BHP and start acting on your customer satisfaction. High time.

[scopriobharath]

Really sorry to hear the ordeal you are going through.

Please Escalate to the same person who helped you get out of that shady deal. Tata is an Indian company with Indian philosophy. I really wish Tata had Japanese philosophy of working

Unless you escalate nothing would be resolved. I wish you a speedy resolution though. There are similar delays (upto 3 months) for Aria customers, so i do not expect better service for Safari UNLESS you escalate.

If It would not hurt you - You have enjoyed the safari for about an year. Please think of selling it and going for a Scorpio or XUV or Innova. You will have total peace of mind with these products.

[yogeshnagpal]

Hey Sagar,

This is how I escalate stuff if it becomes a real pain-

1. Login to Linked-In
2. Search for Tata Motors
3. Search for a senior official in your city (AGM and above)
4. Send an escalation e-mail


This has worked for me in the past while dealing with Tata Teleservices. I escalated at VP level.


Cheers,
Yogesh.

[tsk1979]

Your anger at the workshop is sort of unjustified. I have a safari, where a part fails on every full moon. Even when they replace the part, it fails again on the next moon. The blame here is on Tata. First, they do not have a QC department, or have a QC department whose idea of QC is to see if it does not explode on engine start, its pass.
With the nano they apparently skipped that too.

Coming back to power windows, I have gotten parts replaced under retro, yet my driver side window jams whenever its cold. I have to pull it up.
The passenger side window "pops out", if you try to close it above 60kmph. You either have to take your hand out of rear window, push it inwards, and then close it, or simply slow down.
These are features in the safari. This is how it was made. The service center cannot manufacture a part, they can only replace. And the replacement is of same quality.
Unless Tata decides that there is value in investing some money in quality, as opposed to cost cutting, it will always be a sub par product. I expect safari sales to tank further now that the duster is here, and perhaps, only when they cannot even sell the indica, except to fanboys, they will learn. By then it will be too late. Maybe it already is.

[aaggoswami]

1) TSK is correct. Tata actually lacks QC. The only place they have managed to survive is the typical Indian Rigid Truck where trucks are usually abused and all end up in more or less similar situation. Tata must understand that passenger car market is different and generally not intended for abuse ( commercial taxi segment is another scenario though ).

2) Regarding the Service Center. The guys generally are ill trained and rowdy to such an extent that its difficult to teach them the correct thing/method. Even proper tools are not used by these mechanics. The service adviser and related service guys are having a tough time even communicating the problem to mechanics. But in your case problem was relatively simple. Still I am of opinion that they are not well trained ( neither the service adviser, not the mechanics ).

3) The overall design and QC at Tata motors for Safari is to be blamed. Cars like Eon, Alto have better reliability over Safari. Tata must improve upon this immediately. This is not 1998-2000 era, and things have moved on. Most importantly, the channel to reach higher officials at Tata motors must be very efficient so they can try to get higher customer satisfaction.

4) Tata has lost many opportunities like Aria and Safari, not to mention the fire problem with busses and Nano. Indica and Indigo are only products which are not as famous for wrong reasons. A stitch in time saves Nine, tata has to understand this. Past sales data is an indicator of their failure. Indigo was once the king of compact sedan sales in its respective price range. Today they have a competitive product, but sales are not good. Open your eyes and Understand, TATA.

[carwatcher]

Originally Posted by tsk1979

Your anger at the workshop is sort of unjustified.

Man you really have a great sense of humour. First it was the post on 'for how long engine can run non-stop and now this', I am flattened to say the least. Take a bow.
Come to think of it, Fiat have been relying on Tata for their Sales and Service for past so many years. I really feel pity. If I write about the only dealer in Goa for Tata-Fiat, one will wonder about whether someone can do business with that kind of attitude in today's scenario. To put it in a simple way, they were not ready to believe that a mechanic should be paid in excess of Rs.3500-4000 per month. Things have surely improved in the past few years, say by 0.01%.

[throttleking]

Originally Posted by scopriobharath

If It would not hurt you - You have enjoyed the safari for about an year. Please think of selling it and going for a Scorpio or XUV or Innova. You will have total peace of mind with these products.

Man I would honestly consider your suggestion, but I will be at loss if I sell the Sagari in just one year. I would not disagree that Mahindra has a edge over Tata in terms of quality. Innova is not my cup of tea, and Safari was a dream chased for years, still love it.

Originally Posted by tsk1979

Your anger at the workshop is sort of unjustified. I have a safari, where a part fails on every full moon. Even when they replace the part, it fails again on the next moon. The blame here is on Tata. First, they do not have a QC department, or have a QC department whose idea of QC is to see if it does not explode on engine start, its pass.
With the nano they apparently skipped that too.

TSK, totally agree with you. However I was expecting from dealer some extra caution while dealing with my case since they had already tried to cheat me during sales and they had gone through lot of escalation and negative publicity.

But they absolutely dont bother about customers.

Originally Posted by aaggoswami

2) Regarding the Service Center. The guys generally are ill trained and rowdy to such an extent that its difficult to teach them the correct thing/method. Even proper tools are not used by these mechanics. The service adviser and related service guys are having a tough time even communicating the problem to mechanics. But in your case problem was relatively simple. Still I am of opinion that they are not well trained ( neither the service adviser, not the mechanics ).

Couldn't agree more with you. During the first service, when I went to pickup the vehicle, I saw seat fabric was messed-up with dirty oil and carbon marks, asked them to clean it up. Then Noticed, the washing center guy has just washed the upper body, not a drop of water on alloy wheels, black carbon that comes out from breaking and deposits on alloy wheels was as it is. I made some noise and asked them wash the car again.

Stupid fellow washed the car again, but again only upper body, again not a single drop of water on alloy wheels. It only indicates what process they follow, its not in their blood to take a good care of vehicle at all. Thats how hundreds of cars are washed everyday.

In the meantime, on Friday they tried to resolve the issue despite of the fact that I asked them to return the vehicle without any work done. However problem in not yet solved. And I also realized my branded ear-phone is missing from the car :(

Got couple of calls from Millennium, saying that they are calling from Tata Motors, upon asking them, they revealed they are actually calling from Millennium. They are trying to act smart, said we dont know about the issue, just called to see if you satisfied or not blah blah blah, and then "sorry sir we will look into the issue" and all.

No response from TATA Motors yet.

[noopster]

Sagar, I really feel your pain. Faulty power windows especially on driver's side, are just about the most annoying thing ever. I have never owned a Tata vehicle- no particular prejudice or anything, in fact quite like the Safari- but I can't imagine anyone having to live with a problem like this. "Niggles" doesn't begin to cover it. Add to it Tanveer's post and the situation is almost funny, if it weren't so tragic.

I had an Accent for 7 years. NEVER did my driver side power window fail. And I am not one of those guys who runs on AC 24x7. So it got its fair share of beating. The front passenger window failed once (that too intermittently- it would work with some push and pull). It took them 15 minutes to fix it in Hyundai A.S.S, for free (some alignment issue).

My Swift (6 years old) and Vento (1.5 years) have never faced any such problem, touch wood. If the Japanese, Korean and Germans can get this right, why not Tata?

A bunch of us met some senior execs from Tata some months ago. They were very receptive to feedback and accepted without demur that their QC sucked and their dealers treat customers with something bordering on contempt.But mere acceptance is not enough. They insisted that the Aria suffered none of these niggles and that we should TD one and make up our minds for ourselves. Fair enough, but not everyone can shell out a million and a half on a vehicle. What about the bread and butter stuff?

Frankly I can live without gizmos and add-ons: give me a good, sound car with solid parts that don't fall off and fail at the drop of a hat and I will be happy. It seems Tata doesn't get that.