[joshuakeys]

Originally Posted by carwatcher

I repeat again that Tata Motors to be blamed for this.
To all who think Tata Motors (and other manufacturers) are not aware or not reading this thread, let me assure you 110% this thread must be keenly followed by TML (and other manufacturers) by now.

I am not sure if the manufactures go through these kind of threads & expect wonders happen, i decided to raise the complaint in few more days, because i have to check my vehicle for couple of days. I also logged in to complain on their website, It was asking for the vehicle's chassis number etc. So i thought to wait for few more days, at the same time it doesn't mean that i am waiting for the problem.

My brother has goon amount of friends who are safari owners few among them is from Teambhp .

@ carwatcher, what u mentioned before & now is absolutely right.

[Lukeskywalker]

The problem starts where Tata (like most of the manufacturers) values the car brought for exchange abysmally low and the customer is not ready to accept such price or the customer has no car to exchange.

I personally feel that firstly, its the value of exchange bonus that makes it lucrative and secondly, valuation of cars at very low price make people workaround the system. I mean you don't need to be a rocket scientist to understand that from where that 1Lac would come from. But the problem starts when the valuation+Exchange bonus is still very very low.

So, when you are not happy with the offer on your old car or you don't have a car to exchange it with, then you have to forego the "exchange bonus" right?

So, in your opinion, why does this situation lead to corruption or fraud by a dealer or his employee? How can a dealer pocket the money being offered by the manufacturer to a customer, when the customer is not even offering a car in exchange? So, I fail to understand your "problem starts here" part.

As for TML or any other manufacturer going through this thread, I know for a fact that TML has been notified on this particular case and let us wait and watch as to what action is taken.

I am not sure if the manufactures go through these kind of threads & expect wonders happen, i decided to raise the complaint in few more days, because i have to check my vehicle for couple of days. I also logged in to complain on their website, It was asking for the vehicle's chassis number etc. So i thought to wait for few more days.

Joshuakeys, you have been perfectly right identifying fraud by the dealer's employee, so you have nothing to fear, you can go ahead and escalate the issue to Tata Motors with your vehicle chassis number and other details, why wait.

[joshuakeys]

Originally Posted by Lukeskywalker

So, when you are not happy with the offer on your old car or you don't have a car to exchange it with, then you have to forego the "exchange bonus" right?.

well Lukeskywalker, you are missing out on something, if a sales guy gets a sale & if the customer does not have any existing vehicle, so he will not get any bonus , but the fact is that the sales guy shows some RC of someones Car & avails bonus, which is not our problem, but while billing it clearly shows the discount goes beyond 40k.

now as a customer you are not aware of the bonus because you are not been told about it at all, will you accept the invoice showing 1.2lac less than what you have paid?

1st you will fail to understand whats happening
2nd even if the executive tries to make you understand, you will be lost
3rd you wont be able to digest the fact that you paid lot more than you have to pay.

it will just make the things worse.

[Lukeskywalker]

Joshuakeys, I had no problem understanding what happened in your case, what I fail to understand is what carwatcher is trying to say about Tata Motors being at fault, no matter what kind of scheme is offered by a principal, unscrupulous people will always find a way of embezzlement, this does not apply only to TML is what I'm trying to convey.
I don't think a customer must even accept the invoice that shows less than the paid value, it is simply not right on the dealer's part to try and convince the customer otherwise.

[carwatcher]

This is already answered by me in my previous post.

If one is ready to forego the bonus amount due to laziness/ignorance, then the dealer MAYBE tempted in such scenarios. Exactly that happened in joshua's case, isn't it. He didn't go for exchange but ended up getting exchange bonus without 'actually' exchanging it. Now what you have to say. Going by the talks of ''Ethical practises" I highly doubt that whether TML expects joshua to ethically return this amount or Mr. joshua will himself ethically refund this amount. No offense to anyone but kindly read the writing on the wall. I am also not saying that ALL dealers do that but the amount involved can really tempt a normal guy.

Now even after this if you (and TML) prefer to ignore the facts, do at your own peril. I really have no much energy left to write same lines again and again.

I can cite one more example. During any sale on apparels with 'buy one get one' offer, one gets two garments for the price of one. It is done by company so they can realise more cash per customer. Effectively they are giving 50% discount but it is different from 50% discount in a way that the bill amount is higher per customer.

To avoid being burdened with two garments where one needs/likes only one, few customers club their purchases and share the bill. Infact, few sales guys and girls suggest them to do that. Now I don't see anything illegal in that. But that's my personal opinion.

PS : The fault of TML partly lies with the valuation offers given by the dealers for used cars. One can see that the general opinion on T-BHP is that Maruti True Value does a fair valuation. So no one is sure as to its the TML or the dealers who screw up the valuation. The customer starts doubting after this happens again and again. There lies the actual fault of TML.

If one observes there are three parties involved in a sale:
TML, Dealer and Customer. Believe me after the deal is through, no one is happy, and that's what I am trying to point out. Exactly same happened when I bought my T-Jet. No one was happy after the deal despite me taking all the efforts to be transparent.

Originally Posted by Lukeskywalker

So, in your opinion, why does this situation lead to corruption or fraud by a dealer or his employee? How can a dealer pocket the money being offered by the manufacturer to a customer, when the customer is not even offering a car in exchange? So, I fail to understand your "problem starts here" part.

[joshuakeys]

Originally Posted by Lukeskywalker

Joshuakeys, I had no problem understanding what happened in your case, .

Originally Posted by carwatcher

This is already answered by me in my previous post.

In both of your cases there is something missing & that thing is messing up. That's called transparency right.

The sales guy should have been transparent while doing this, Then the customer wouldn't have any problem right. But that wasn't there.

Carwatcher was trying to say the same thing that its not just tata Motors but could be with every other manufacturer.

tomorrow i am going to draft a complaint mail to TATA MOTORS.

[lohithrao]

Few months back i bought Safari and got the exchange bonus without any fuss, infact me and my friend both got the Safari from the same dealer on same day and we got the bonus amount..

This is what we were told during the booking, we were asked to give them the photo copy of the RC for the old car during the booking and post delivery we will have 30days to submit the RC copy of the old car after it has been transferred to the new owners name, which meant we needed to show the proof of sale...

Dealer/Tata would verify the same on "https://vahan.nic.in/nrservices/" post the approval the amount will be paid, and the same happened in our case.

One does not have to sell the car to TATA, if the car is sold to TATA the bonus amount is 40k but if one decides to sell it on his own then with above process he can claim "30k" and me and my friend did the same...

Now what surprises me is, how the dealership can cheat here? cause TATA wont release or pay the dealer until they verify this...anyways here Dealership needs to be blamed and not TATA....

@ Carwatcher, i dont think anyone will buy a car just for the bonus, even if its 1lac, these bonus may help to get a prospective customer closer and thats what happened with me and my friend, and i have explained how this works above...

[carwatcher]

Can anyone tell whether the 'mechanism' mentioned here is "transparent" and fall under 'exchange'. To be honest I wasn't even aware of that 'flexible option' and I am sure that most of the people too as it is simply No exchange and why would TML authorise their dealer to do that. I would appreciate if someone can get it in writing from any dealership that if one exchanges the car at dealership he/she gets 1Lac as exchange bonus and if one chooses to sell the same vehicle outside, he/she will be allowed 90K bonus just on the basis of RC photostat copy. They will definitely allow this but won't give that to you in writing.
Can anyone bother to explain why is this difference of 10K between the two situations and not 5K or 15K.

If the customer doesn't buys the car due to Bonus then why the manufacturers mention total benefits which include bonus. Customers look at the final OTR price which includes everything and then only decide to take the final plunge. If the OTR is 1Lac rupee more than the advertised OTR price, I would definitely not consider it for buying. Yes, if the difference is 10-15K I can ignore that.

All I can say that you and your friend were really lucky.

So the question remains, "Is it so tough to evaluate a used car so as to allow the customer to sell it outside and still pay him exchange bonus?"

Originally Posted by lohithrao

@ Carwatcher, i dont think anyone will buy a car just for the bonus, even if its 1lac, these bonus may help to get a prospective customer closer and thats what happened with me and my friend, and i have explained how this works above...

[Lukeskywalker]

Can anyone tell whether the 'mechanism' mentioned here is "transparent" and fall under 'exchange'.

In Joshuakeys case, he was cheated by the employee of the dealership who hid the actual facts from him. Yes, in this case, the deal was not "transparent".

Can anyone bother to explain why is this difference of 10K between the two situations and not 5K or 15K.

If a car is given at the dealer's place where the new car is bought, the extra is an incentive given to the seller (customer) as the dealership will make more than that when it sells the used car, whereas, if the car is sold outside, the dealer will not get anything out of the independent sale.

All I can say that you and your friend were really lucky.

Not just Lohithrao, many of us who've been through this route consider ourselves "lucky" in that case.

Customers look at the final OTR price which includes everything and then only decide to take the final plunge. If the OTR is 1Lac rupee more than the advertised OTR price,

Do you normally get two different quotes on a car from the same dealer? There is only one advertised OTR price and the breakup of the same is clearly mentioned in the quotation, the conditions for any kind of "bonus" is also given in print, if you do not get it, then you have reason to doubt the dealership, this is what happened in Joshuakeys case.

So the question remains, "Is it so tough to evaluate a used car so as to allow the customer to sell it outside and still pay him exchange bonus?"

Looking from a dealership point of view, the question is not about the evaluation, they would always want to have a lower value so as to increase their profit margin while selling the old car, so the choice is the customers, he can choose to sell it to the dealer at a lower value if he wants to save the trouble of trying to sell it independently where he may or may not get a better price.

It is a completely different issue that the dealer is under invoicing the new car, that needs investigation.

[lohithrao]

Lucky??? isnt it obvious that responsibility is on the dealership to convey the same to the prospective customer on thier first visit, later its their choice...

On "flexible" option, i think same process is followed by all companies, if they have the exchange bonus, its evident that thier valuation will be lesser then the market price so they have this "flexible" concept else the whole "bonus" thing will fail...and i dont think dealers wont have any issue on evaluvating the car but the customers will with the offer made... again, sales are made to those who are keen on thier product and i dont think even a "lac" bonus amount would attract someone who is not keen.

On you not being aware, i think again the dealership whom you had consulted is to be blamed, for not informing you about this and its not just photo copy the info has to reflect on "Vahan...."

Originally Posted by carwatcher

Can anyone tell whether the 'mechanism' mentioned here is "transparent" and fall under 'exchange'. To be honest I wasn't even aware of that 'flexible option' and I am sure that most of the people too as it is simply No exchange and why would TML authorise their dealer to do that. I would appreciate if someone can get it in writing from any dealership that if one exchanges the car at dealership he/she gets 1Lac as exchange bonus and if one chooses to sell the same vehicle outside, he/she will be allowed 90K bonus just on the basis of RC photostat copy. They will definitely allow this but won't give that to you in writing.
Can anyone bother to explain why is this difference of 10K between the two situations and not 5K or 15K.

If the customer doesn't buys the car due to Bonus then why the manufacturers mention total benefits which include bonus. Customers look at the final OTR price which includes everything and then only decide to take the final plunge. If the OTR is 1Lac rupee more than the advertised OTR price, I would definitely not consider it for buying. Yes, if the difference is 10-15K I can ignore that.

All I can say that you and your friend were really lucky.

So the question remains, "Is it so tough to evaluate a used car so as to allow the customer to sell it outside and still pay him exchange bonus?"

[carwatcher]

No Sir, I was referring to Lohitrao's case where I mentioned 'mechanism' 'No Exchange' 'Flexibility', etc.
Similarly, I was referring to used car bought by staff first and then sold by him to the dealer (where he is employed) and not a new car (in case you pointed out under-invoicing in context of my post, if not then ignore it).

After going through the last post of lohitrao and yours, I can say that in most of the cases, it is the fault of the dealer.

We have a theory of 'Caveat Emptor'-'Let's the buyers beware' but in my case it was simply misrepresentation of facts, not giving proper and transparent answers, etc. which is very normal and common in this part of our country. Now anyway the chapter is closed long back for good. Anyway we have only one Fiat dealer in Goa, whether you like it or not.

As the TataSky Ad mentions "Aap poochenge nahin, dealer batayega nahi'' (something on these lines).

Originally Posted by Lukeskywalker

In Joshuakeys case, he was cheated by the employee of the dealership who hid the actual facts from him. Yes, in this case, the deal was not "transparent".
It is a completely different issue that the dealer is under invoicing the new car, that needs investigation.

Originally Posted by lohithrao

Lucky??? isnt it obvious that responsibility is on the dealership to convey the same to the prospective customer on thier first visit, later its their choice...

[Lukeskywalker]

After going through the last post of lohitrao and yours, I can say that in most of the cases, it is the fault of the dealer.

Exactly, that is what I've been trying to say all along, no matter what benefits a manufacturer intends for customers, some dealers (or their employees in this case) ruin the buying experience for the customer, this is not just with Tata Motors but rampant across the country, but again, we cannot call all the dealers dishonest.

[Rovergen]

Hyundai had a good policy in place for Exchange of car or Loyality bonus ,
The client pays the full money , but if he gets the name of the New owner changed on the RC with in 2 months then the dealer will give a bank cheque with the exchange bonus , I used it once it worked flawless . may be the dealer would claim the money back from the OEM .

But Tried it with Mahindra for a friend but they say the Exchange bonus can be availed only when you trade of your car to Only and Only Mahindra First Choice . Then found from a Insider that if the First choice quotes a dead price but are able to sell the car at higher price to a different buyer , then the same will be passed on to the Showroom and showroom can have that money and offer better discount to the new car buyer . Confusing but works like a charm .

[lohithrao]

This is the same process followed by TATA, however it depends on how the Sales rep handles this, and it is very possible that either the rep is not well informed or not keen enough to communicate the same to the customer....

also had forgotten to mention this, we had contacted dealers in Bangalore just to confirm we were getting the right deal and all th dealers gave the same info over the phone, infact we were very impressed with Sales rep of KHT, Concorde, they explained this entire process very well...

Originally Posted by Rovergen

Hyundai had a good policy in place for Exchange of car or Loyality bonus ,
The client pays the full money , but if he gets the name of the New owner changed on the RC with in 2 months then the dealer will give a bank cheque with the exchange bonus , I used it once it worked flawless . may be the dealer would claim the money back from the OEM .

But Tried it with Mahindra for a friend but they say the Exchange bonus can be availed only when you trade of your car to Only and Only Mahindra First Choice . Then found from a Insider that if the First choice quotes a dead price but are able to sell the car at higher price to a different buyer , then the same will be passed on to the Showroom and showroom can have that money and offer better discount to the new car buyer . Confusing but works like a charm .

[gauravdgr8]

Originally Posted by carwatcher

IMHO Tata Motors to be blamed for the same.

The problem starts where Tata (like most of the manufacturers) values the car brought for exchange abysmally low and the customer is not ready to accept such price or the customer has no car to exchange.

I kind of do not agree with this. The reason is below.

When I went in for trade in of my U-Va for a Vista, the dealership simply did not have any loop holes. They clearly told me the showroom price of the car-20k discount(at that time Vista had a 20 k offer)-the price of the U-VA (when it's sold).

Now, one thing that should be noted here is that the car was not evaluated by TATA dealership, but they had tied up with the local 2nd hand car dealers. A couple of them came and inspected the car and gave an approximate price to my father. As and when there was a customer who would like to buy, they called my father and gave him the details. When the customer who actually bought the car, the deal was struck in front of my dad with all transactions. Tata dealership was only a medium to get our car sold. This process took a week as someone came to buy the U-VA only after a week's time.

It is with certain dealerships who try to fool customers and in turn give bad name to the Parent Company.