[snkjr]

My brother is going to buy a Tata Safari. He has paid about 10% of the OTR and though the loan has been sanctioned by the bank, he hasn't given the demand draft to the dealer.

The dealer was very keen and was forcing to close the sale in October itself, I presume because he needs the Diwali bonus for himself and to pay his staff, and needs to show his sales. My brother was asking for VIN/Chassis No. and they were not willing to provide that detail. A guy my brother had sent to the dealer sat there for 6 hours yet returned empty handed. Had they given the VIN/Chassis No. yesterday, my brother would - probably - have given them the rest of the payment yesterday itself.

My brother hasn't given any documents to them, though he gave them a photocopy of the demand draft and some details like father's name. His address they already had from before. Yet while he was in office today, the dealer went to his home and dropped off a "Sale Certificate" (Form 21) along with Form 22. The sale certificate says "Certified that Arctic Silver Safari LX 4x2 2.2L BS-IV has been DELIVERED by us to Mr. X on 31/10/2012"!

Now of course this wouldn't qualify as a legal sale (seller can't force a sale), but I want to know from the members as to how matters stand on this issue.

How about if my brother goes to inspect the vehicle and finds it damaged or something?

[Shreyans]

Firstly i dont think any payment apart from the booking amount should have been made without the PDI. I think you should send them a letter saying that no PDI was conducted on your end and the engine and chasis number wasnt provided to you even though you asked for it several times get it on record because verbally it has no value. I am guessing he was pushing the sale because the safari storm has been launched. I had called concorde in mumbai for the safari storme and they said the car has been launched but they cant show it to me and TD was out of the question. Tata motors really needs to get their act together if they treat clients like this i only see a further drop in sales.

[scopriobharath]

Originally Posted by snkjr

Now of course this wouldn't qualify as a legal sale (seller can't force a sale), but I want to know from the members as to how matters stand on this issue.

How about if my brother goes to inspect the vehicle and finds it damaged or something?

Did your brother "sign" any document at the dealership?. If NOT you are safe. They cannot confirm a sale without your consent.

Take the issue with the Regional Tata Motors office and definetly someone will help you out.

If you have signed the delivery form / RTO formalities form, then there is litle that can be done

[snkjr]

No documents have been signed. No documents like identity proof, address proof have been submitted. So I guess that is a positive.

[condor]

Originally Posted by scopriobharath

Take the issue with the Regional Tata Motors office and definetly someone will help you out.

I dont think Regional Sales managers are going help. What the heck - many will agree that these guys will not even pick up the phone if want to escalate.

One suggestion: Go through the Vehcile for a complete PDI check, take it for a fairly thorough TD. (Take some one with you for this). If ok, bargain for discounts / accessories etc.

But since no documents were provided by buyer, the car would not / may not have been registered. What is at stake is the 10k (?) booking amount. And if the "sale document" is in possession of the buyer, then he is at an advantage.

[snkjr]

The way they are forcing the sale, a PDI is essential. Have given the Chassis No. to @wildon for decoding. Am waiting to see if he will be kind enough.

Agree with @condor that there is an advantage in having the sale certificate in hand - kind of. Only concern is that PDI should turn out to be okay.

[kaviprem]

Originally Posted by condor

I dont think Regional Sales managers are going help. What the heck - many will agree that these guys will not even pick up the phone if want to escalate....

Its NOT right to generalise like this. Regional Sales Manager office have always worked for me and for many others whom I know in this forum itself.
So, I suggest the concerned party should escalate this and am sure, it would work good.

Prem.

[ACM]

Pay rest only after PDI (by when car chassis number etc will be in hand).

Ignore what has happened but let a senior in the dealership know that you are not happy with then way method in which things have happened till now and will excallate to TATA is further steps dont flow properly.

My take is a bit on the cooler side but may help keep the buying experience better overall if the dealer sales guys is just bungling through procedures to make his incentives with no -ve hidden intent.

[Warwithwheels]

Originally Posted by snkjr

...The sale certificate says "Certified that Arctic Silver Safari LX 4x2 2.2L BS-IV has been DELIVERED by us to Mr. X on 31/10/2012"!

A Brand new safari for less than a lac sounds very tempting

Now that you guys have a legal document stating that the car has been sold to you and that you have taken delivery, why don't you guys just go to the showroom and drive the car out without making any further payment?

If they try to resist, flash the sale certificate on their face, or even better, call the police and file an FIR.

Voila, you have a brand new Safari in your garage for less than a Lac

C'mon you gotta teach these guys a lesson.

EDIT: The original draft has been not yet been given to the dealer or en-cashed right? All you paid the dealer is about a lac right?

[n.devdath]

Originally Posted by snkjr

The way they are forcing the sale, a PDI is essential. Have given the Chassis No. to @wildon for decoding. Am waiting to see if he will be kind enough.

Which city? Which dealer?

Further, unless your brother signs the acceptance of Sale and the registration and HPA forms, he cannot be forced to accept the vehicle. Also, he needs authorise the bank to release the payment to the dealer.

[condor]

Originally Posted by kaviprem

Its NOT right to generalise like this. Regional Sales Manager office have always worked for me and for many others whom I know in this forum itself.

Prem, if you have noticed, I have not said anything about all of them. And btw, you must be one of those very lucky few. At least from my own experience and from the feedback that I have heard, you are !

[apachelongbow]

AFIK your brother has not paid any money to the dealer for his Safari. 10% advance for the car is presented to the dealer, hopefully by cheque/draft or atleast a reciept against cash.
Now if the dealer is dropping off a form22, does it have a valid VIN/chassis number? If it has a new VIN/Chassis number, it is easy for you to decode the date/month/year of manufacture and also find out where is the vehicle as of now.

If the dealer has not supplied the VIN/Chassis number, the Form of sale is illegal and holds no value. A straight complaint to the regional head of sales, stating the misuse of the form and the dealer's greed to complete monthly target should set him right.

If you do feel this dealer is fishy, request a cancellation of booking, and get your money back. Its better to deal with a more ethical dealer

[zoombiee]

Actually its the dealer who should be worried in this case and not you. The car seems to be legally yours without you paying anything for it. Just sleep and let the dealer earn his bread. He is at an inconvenience and not you.

[snkjr]

Originally Posted by kaviprem

So, I suggest the concerned party should escalate this and am sure, it would work good.

@kaviprem - My brother is of the view that the matter would only need escalation if the car turns out to be defective in some way during PDI. I agree with him and he has kept it at the dealer level till now. If and when it is escalated, let's hope he is as lucky as you are when it comes to Tata Motors corporate guys.

Originally Posted by ACM

Pay rest only after PDI (by when car chassis number etc will be in hand).

Ignore what has happened but let a senior in the dealership know that you are not happy with then way method in which things have happened till now and will excallate to TATA is further steps dont flow properly.

My take is a bit on the cooler side but may help keep the buying experience better overall if the dealer sales guys is just bungling through procedures to make his incentives with no -ve hidden intent.

@ACM - The dealer dropped off Form 22 at my brother's, so he does already have the Chassis No. / Engine No in hand. @wildon was kind and helpful to respond to my request to decode the no. and confirms that it is an October 2012 manufactured vehicle.

Yes the dealer won't be seeing any further money until he shows the car and my brother is through with the PDI.

I like your take and in fact my brother has been proceeding on similar lines, keeping his cool. His only concern is that the car should not turn out to be defective upon inspection. That would lead to a very unpleasant situation.

Originally Posted by Warwithwheels

A Brand new safari for less than a lac sounds very tempting

Now that you guys have a legal document stating that the car has been sold to you and that you have taken delivery, why don't you guys just go to the showroom and drive the car out without making any further payment?

If they try to resist, flash the sale certificate on their face, or even better, call the police and file an FIR.

Voila, you have a brand new Safari in your garage for less than a Lac

C'mon you gotta teach these guys a lesson.

EDIT: The original draft has been not yet been given to the dealer or en-cashed right? All you paid the dealer is about a lac right?

@Warwithwheels - I like your sense of humor You're right about the bank draft - my brother's got it safely with himself.

Originally Posted by n.devdath

Which city? Which dealer?

Further, unless your brother signs the acceptance of Sale and the registration and HPA forms, he cannot be forced to accept the vehicle. Also, he needs authorise the bank to release the payment to the dealer.

@n.devdath - I have not mentioned the dealer yet because (a) I would like to believe that this could still be sorted out, (b) I think it's more about how the sales guy has proceeded because Diwali is coming up.

If malintention does get proved during PDI I'm gonna print the name of the dealer here. I agree with what @ACM says above.

My brother hasn't signed any forms that's why he is taking it easy right now. The bank gave him the demand draft drawn in favor of the dealer, it is still with him.

Originally Posted by apachelongbow

AFIK your brother has not paid any money to the dealer for his Safari. 10% advance for the car is presented to the dealer, hopefully by cheque/draft or atleast a reciept against cash.
Now if the dealer is dropping off a form22, does it have a valid VIN/chassis number? If it has a new VIN/Chassis number, it is easy for you to decode the date/month/year of manufacture and also find out where is the vehicle as of now.

If the dealer has not supplied the VIN/Chassis number, the Form of sale is illegal and holds no value. A straight complaint to the regional head of sales, stating the misuse of the form and the dealer's greed to complete monthly target should set him right.

If you do feel this dealer is fishy, request a cancellation of booking, and get your money back. Its better to deal with a more ethical dealer

@apachelongbow - You're right, only about 10% of the OTR has been paid as yet (the downpayment I guess). I think my brother does have the receipt. Yes, the Form 22 does have valid Chassis No. / Engine No. and @wildon has kindly decoded it for me. Guy says the vehicle is still in transit - that's what I think sounds out of place.

You're right, and what I have suggested to my brother is that if the sale turns out to be okay - he should head over to the other dealer in town when it comes to getting the car serviced.

Originally Posted by zoombiee

Actually its the dealer who should be worried in this case and not you. The car seems to be legally yours without you paying anything for it. Just sleep and let the dealer earn his bread. He is at an inconvenience and not you.

@zoombiee - Yes, my brother's only trying to find out what to do in case the PDI turns out to be a negative experience.

@all - thank you for your inputs, very valuable. If you're wondering why the PDI hasn't been done yet, it's because the dealer says the vehicle is still in transit.

[snkjr]

So I went along with my brother for his PDI. He was informed that the vehicle was 'unloaded' just yesterday. Went at 7:30 am by prior arrangement. The vehicle is - thankfully - in perfect condition.

The only thing was that the rear tires were deflated / had very little air. There was grime on the tires so couldn't read the numbers clearly. But they were quite evidently new.

Could someone elaborate why tires on a new-born vehicle would be in a deflated state?

Thanks.