[Grr7]

Hey,

I took possession of a 2012 model Swift Vdi within family after an upgrade from my beloved 2003 model Zen Lxi.

I have had an awesome service experience with MSM, Jahangirpuri over a period of time. But just as an acid test, thought to get the 20000 km service of my swift from M.S.S, Naraina since the swift has been serviced by them since purchase. Searched it on tbhp (I don't use google for automobile stuff anymore!n) and found all praises. Another inbound fear was the notorious cost of 20000 km, so decided that M.S.S, unlike other appointed dealers would have least of hefty profit making motive in servicing my car.

Thus, was decided that M.S.S, Naraina it would be. As I always pamper my ride, so avoiding a weekend rush, i booked a slot for my service on a weekday. I was attended by the service adviser and was asked for any specific points to look into. There were no complaints as such except for a little gruffy engine note. I was further impressed when I was asked if I wish to go for mineral oil or synthetic oil (I had a mental perception that I would be strongly insisted for synthetic oil). Anyways, since my car was already on synthetic oil, I told him to continue with the same.

The service went on as usual while I was waiting in the customer lounge. I was told that I cannot enter workshop area despite assuring the M.S.S people that I would not disturb the mechanic even a wee bit. Anyways, everything was as usual until the car was ready after the service. This was the point when the service experience started shifting from good to the north of average. The prominent points being:

- The engine oil was found to be in excess when checked from dipstick. The service adviser mentioned that it is due to hot engine. I was satisfied with the answer. However, after 4-5 days it just clicked me to check the oil level again. In a cold engine on a leveled surface, I find the oil level generously above the maximum mark.

- The 20000 km service interval mentions change of coolant. However, I was charged Rs.550 as Radiator R&R in the labor charges except for Rs.600 coolant cost. I feel that I was fleeced of Rs.550 charge for totally unnecessary work. The SA told me these were towards some radiator flush chemical they use (cannot understand why then was this charge under Labor column in bill).

- The car had an irritating rattle post service. Discovered that spare wheel was not secured in place and it was merrily moving around making noises.

- The M.S.S balanced the 5 wheels on my car using 4 nos of weight in total. This is technically not going down too well with me. I understand that the old weights need to be removed before balancing the tire, in which case a minimum of 5 nos. of weights should have been used.

- The battery terminal grease was lying on the plastic part of battery as if carelessly thrown there just for the sake of greasing. I had to spread it myself as if it was some DIY kit offered by Maruti

- Though negligible expense, I was charged for the windshield washer concentrate while I had already filled right dose of shampoo in my last refill of water during Delhi monsoon rains.

- They charged some Rs. 475 for "side slip and brake tester charges" which I feel are again imposed to make some profit. They must have installed some costly machine and now are fleecing the customers by using it without a requirement on every car. The interesting logic given to me for this charge was that since the car is under warranty, this test should be performed so that any suspension problem could be sorted FOC under warranty. I later on realized that going by the same logic, they should have performed adn charged me for engine compression test because even the engine is still under warranty and they would change it FOC in warranty if need arises.

- Another interesting thing, my job card erroneously mentioned of some A/C not effective complaint. The same was clarified to the SA on test drive before service. However, the proof copy of bill mentioned some Rs.600 for A/C service charges. The SA on realizing the goof up promptly got those removed as my A/C unit was not even touched during the entire service. This very well prove that they blindly charge you for anything and everything without looking if the problem really existed and worked upon or not.

All these points have really got me worried whether these guys would have performed other service aspects satisfactorily esp those not evident to eyes so easily (eg. change of transmission fluid, change of all filters and putting in mineral oil while charging for synthetic oil etc). I totally understand that it was mistake on my part to not raise a voice then and there about the complaints I have now. However, I had high trust in M.S.S since it was rated better than MSM and my experience with MSM, Jahangirpuri has been nothing less than awesome.

Forgetting all other points. My biggest concern is about the damage caused to engine/seals/bearings due to overly excessive engine oil since my car has already covered some 1500 km in this state.

And to top it all, I received a follow up call from the SA's Team leader. On telling him the complaint he very coolly starting giving stupid logic like "sir its 2.9 liter of oil plus 0.2 liter for filter" and blah blah. I tried to tell him that I am from a technical background and referring to the vehicle manual, I can very well diagnose if the engine oil is in excess or not. Still he continued with the same garbage talk, so I requested him to hold the line so that I can start my call recorder and then he could repeat all the gyan he is providing me. Realizing his pseudo alibi caught, all that he said later was that "sir please provide me your address and I shall send a mechanic to look into your concern".

I am following up this issue with GM, M.S.S. who was not available today owing to some urgent work.

A word of advice: All in all, all the big words about M.S.S are just a misnomer. Please follow due caution (and even more) as when going to the worst M.A.S.S known to you/reported here on tbhp. There is nothing better or exceptional about M.S.S, Naraina which you can trust upon.

P.S: Here is a detail of bill attached:

PARTS:
1. Plug assy, oil drain: Rs.75.56
2. Coolant (SB) non amine: Rs. 626.67 (3 litres @ Rs208.89/l)
3. Brake fluid: Rs. 173.34 (300 ml @ Rs.57.78/100ml)
4. Service kit, New Swift Diesel: Rs.1608.89 (includes the air/oil/diesel filters)
5. Grease, caliper assy: Rs.56.88 (2 qty @ Rs28.44 each)
6. Screen wash concentrate: Rs.13.33
7. Balance weight: Rs.66.66 (includes 10, 20, 30 gms weight)
8. MGGO (75W90)- Shell: Rs.816.84 (2.6 liters @ Rs.314.17/l)
9. Synthetic oil (0W40)- Mobil 1: Rs.3164.57 (3.1 liters @ 1020.83)

Labor:
1. Paid service (20k km): Rs.1375
2. Wheel Alignment: Rs.275
3. Side slip & brake tester charges: Rs.475
4. Wheel balancing (5 wheels): Rs.275
5. Radiator assy R&R: Rs.550
6. Body Washing: Rs.20

Sub total: Rs.6602.74(parts) and Rs. 2970(labor)
Final amount: Rs.10410 (after 5% disc on parts and 8% disc on labor equating to Rs. 567.73)

[saket77]

Thanks Grr7 for sharing your experience.
First things first, get that extra oil out of the engine ASAP. The extra pressure build up can damage the oil seals and the car may experience oil leakages from various places.

I could not understand the 'plug assembly, oil drain' charged Rs. 75.56 in your bill. Is that the plug nut that is opened to drain the engine oil? If that is it, why did it need replacement? Only the gasket needs replacement which is like a metal washer in brass colour.
ANd that screen wash, looks like its a must-sell item for MASS. Everytime my car goes in for any kind of service, they have the habbit of pouring it in the wash container. Since, its not expensive, most people do not crib about it, but still.

Now, I guess its time for you to return to your older MASS.

Regards,
Saket

[Grr7]

Originally Posted by saket77

Thanks Grr7 for sharing your experience.
I could not understand the 'plug assembly, oil drain' charged Rs. 75.56 in your bill. Is that the plug nut that is opened to drain the engine oil? If that is it, why did it need replacement? Only the gasket needs replacement which is like a metal washer in brass colour.

Hey Saket,

The screen wash is surely a hogwash.

The plug drain, as I have been told needs replacement in new generation Maruti Swift on every oil drain. Another way for maruti to fleece its customers. Cannot express how much I am missing my good old zen.

Regarding the oil, the car is out of station now so I am in dual state of mind; if i get the oil drained outside, I have nothing substantial to prove to M.S.S in my complaint and if i continue with the excessive oil (for 120 km from Karnal to Delhi), there is a possibility of damage.

This M.S.S experience has only increased my respect for my previous M.A.S.S.

Regards

[saket77]

Originally Posted by Grr7

Hey Saket,

The screen wash is surely a hogwash.

The plug drain, as I have been told needs replacement in new generation Maruti Swift on every oil drain. Another way for maruti to fleece its customers. Cannot express how much I am missing my good old zen.

Regarding the oil, the car is out of station now so I am in dual state of mind; if i get the oil drained outside, I have nothing substantial to prove to M.S.S in my complaint and if i continue with the excessive oil (for 120 km from Karnal to Delhi), there is a possibility of damage.

This M.S.S experience has only increased my respect for my previous M.A.S.S.

Regards

That's a dilemma for sure. But if there is no damage as of now like no loss of power and more over any leakages, I suggest that you get it drained outside that MASS. That is good 1-1.5 ltrs of extra oil in it and surely won't do any good. Also, its unlikely that this MASS will accept that the overfilling was caused by them in any case. SO , to be on safer side, get it drained, IMO.

I would have suggested you to use the syringe method, but since the quantity to be drained looks large, I suggest you to first get the entire oil drained out. Then measure the right volume through the can/ beakers that the garages have and fill the required quantity mentioned in the manual.

[Grr7]

Update:

I raised up the issue with the Customer relation manager writing her a mail with cc to GM, M.S.S, Naraina and Regional Manager, Service, Maruti Suzuki.

I took an appointment for 16th August and reached there in the afternoon. The car was taken in the workshop and engine oil drained out. On measurement, the oil was found to be some 500 ml in excess (400 ml excess at time of draining and another 100 ml on removing the oil filter). By this time the Regional Manager also arrived at the workshop from and joined us on the workshop floor. The Service Adviser (SA) had no answer to the excessive oil. Thereafter, on a thorough check up, the brake oil and coolant were also found to be overfilled above the "FULL" mark. The excessive fluids were drained using syringe in my presence. All the tires were re-balanced and then alignment redone.

I could not get a satisfactory answer for the excessive engine oil. The SA told that the oil is dispensed by an automated dispenser as per the requirement. Thus, I could only suspect that the old oil was not drained properly and mixed with fresh oil thereby spoiling the new oil as well. I asked them to refill new oil and change the oil filter which they had to comply with. They initially recommended that old oil was as good as fresh, but without an answer to where the excessive oil came for, I was in no mood to listen.

The engine oil seals were then checked for any signs of leakage and a compression test was performed which gave a (supposedly??) healthy compression values of 200, 190, 200, 210 for every cylinder respectively (I forgot the measuring unit!).

The Regional Manager as well as GM were present with me during the entire time and were quite apologetic. The workshop surely did a mistake (big one at that) but then they were equally proactive in acknowledging and rectifying the same. Going by the reported arrogance of VW/Skoda dealers on the forum, I wonder what would have been the response in case it happened with a Skoda Fabia/ VW Polo!!

I understood that the corrective measures were all that could have been done in my case and these were done satisfactorily. However, a few things learnt from this episode are:
- Never trust anyone (be it ANYONE!) with your loving ride. No one can take care of her as much as you can. As a tbhpian mentioned on another thread, always specify your conditions on the job card itself before signing (for eg. unhindered access to vehicle on workshop floor, no additional work to be done without prior approval etc.)
- When in doubt ask and ask again. Always be sure of the work mentioned on the job card before signing the dotted line. Your signature on that sheet reflects your approval for the work done. The same happened in my case. All the issues I raised pertaining to radiator flush charges etc was passed to SA standing next to GM and RM. The poor chap was thoroughly grilled by the RM. Though the SA mistreated my ride, I had no intention to get him penalized (with a financial penalty) or causing trouble with his livelihood: his job. So, I did not followed the overcharging issue since I was partially responsible for agreeing to pay them at first place. No point crying over the spilled milk!
- From now on, I shall get even the minutest work on my ride done right in front of me.
- Always try to get all the communication/complaints registered in writing with a copy of record so as to have a strong case for unforeseen issues later on (eg possible failure of oil seal/bearings in future).

[Chetan_Rao]

Originally Posted by Grr7

Update:

I raised up the issue with the Customer relation manager writing her a mail with cc to GM, M.S.S, Naraina and Regional Manager, Service, Maruti Suzuki.

Glad that it ended well for you.

The job card is very important document, but most of us trust the service center with it instead of taking responsibility ourselves. Lesson well learnt for you, and I hope your car's issues are resolved to your satisfaction now.

[Grr7]

Originally Posted by Chetan_Rao

Glad that it ended well for you.

The job card is very important document, but most of us trust the service center with it instead of taking responsibility ourselves. Lesson well learnt for you, and I hope your car's issues are resolved to your satisfaction now.

The ending of this service would open up in long term, hope it opens in a way to keep me glad. Primarily because there could be damage to bearings and all which would come up in long term. Though, without being finical, I am keeping my fingers crossed.

Thanks for the comment and I shall now always be super-aware about the job card.

Regards

[zoombiee]

I dont see radiator flushing recommended by Maruti anywhere in the service manual. Ash the ASS why that was done. Typically this is done if there is rust accumulation in the radiator pipes. I dont think this happens on Maruti cars usually.
Maruti just recommends draining the fluid completely and replacing it.

[saket77]

Originally Posted by zoombiee

Typically this is done if there is rust accumulation in the radiator pipes. I dont think this happens on Maruti cars usually.

Even if there is some rust, it will be a matter of debate if flushing can remove rusts accumulated in the pipes . It rust finds its way there, I am certain that no amount of flushing is going to help either. What say experts?

[amitk26]

Originally Posted by saket77

I would have suggested you to use the syringe method, but since the quantity to be drained looks large, I suggest you to first get the entire oil drained out. Then measure the right volume through the can/ beakers that the garages have and fill the required quantity mentioned in the manual.

Dont do it pouring oil out and filing in same oil can be dangerous.
adc's safari engine was destroyed by this method but since it was mistake of A.S.S they gave

[amitk26]

Posted half message before and could not edit it so continuing here.

Metal shavings from oil sump blocked the filler TML gave new engine under warranty as it was mistake of a.s.s

[Grr7]

Originally Posted by zoombiee

I dont see radiator flushing recommended by Maruti anywhere in the service manual. Ash the ASS why that was done.
Maruti just recommends draining the fluid completely and replacing it.

Hey Zoombie,
You are absolutely right that Maruti only recommends draining and replacement of fluid (coolant).
I raised this point on my subsequent visit and the Regional Manager (RM) directly forwarded the question to the Service Adviser (SA) to which he said that he do the same for all the vehicle. Then the RM explained me that this is only required in a few vehicles after removing the coolant and looking at its state of it. So my blunt question was that how was the same mentioned in the job card without even taking the vehicle to the workshop, the SA was badly caught in the pants. A few more words/questions from my side would have made RM fire the SA.
As i said in my earlier post "Though the SA mistreated my ride, I had no intention to get him penalized (with a huge financial penalty) or causing trouble with his livelihood: his job. So, I did not followed the overcharging issue since I was partially responsible for agreeing to pay them at first place. No point crying over the spilled milk!"
Besides, I took the extra charges I paid as a punishment for my ignorance. Because somewhere, I trusted that SA blindly and signed the job card without raising the concern and then later on paid the entire bill like a fool(happily chugging on the 8% discount the SA got for me).Only the lessons learnt hard way are the ones that are remembered lifetime.
The engine oil and filter charges of some Rs.4100 were already put on the SA and his team, I was in no mood to be cruel to make them pay the other charges as well. The SA cheated me and I was partly ignorant(I still say sorry to my car everyday for ignoring her service), so we both got penalized.

Originally Posted by saket77

Even if there is some rust, it will be a matter of debate if flushing can remove rusts accumulated in the pipes . It rust finds its way there, I am certain that no amount of flushing is going to help either. What say experts?

Even I agree with your school of thought Saket. But as I mentioned in the above comment to Zoombie, no point in crying over the spilled milk. I was already in damage control mode on my second visit and my utmost priority was to iron out problems that could/would cause harm.

Originally Posted by amitk26

Dont do it pouring oil out and filing in same oil can be dangerous.
adc's safari engine was destroyed by this method but since it was mistake of A.S.S they gave

Thanks for making an essential point here Amitk26, the point was well taken care of. While the service center people (including Mr.Regional Manager) insisted to that old oil is as good as new, I had the same apprehensions as you mentioned. So, I went to the point to tell them, in case they still insist on old oil, I am ready to pay out of my pocket for the new oil, but the old oil (which was some 1000 km run) collected in some old used oil bottles is never going to find its way back to my ride.
I supervised the mechanic right from the oil room (to make sure they do not put mineral in name of synthetic to cut down the cost), got him to fill the oil in measures of 2 liter, 1 liter and 100 ml right in front of me and fill it in my car with a new oil filter.

[zoombiee]

Originally Posted by saket77

Even if there is some rust, it will be a matter of debate if flushing can remove rusts accumulated in the pipes . It rust finds its way there, I am certain that no amount of flushing is going to help either. What say experts?

I have done this on my palio and found it to be very useful. I do it once a year (since my palio is about 6 yrs old now). There are tell tale signs where you can catch the amount of rust accumulation. Again this may or may not apply to other cars.

[saket77]

Originally Posted by zoombiee

I have done this on my palio and found it to be very useful. I do it once a year (since my palio is about 6 yrs old now). There are tell tale signs where you can catch the amount of rust accumulation. Again this may or may not apply to other cars.

Zoombiee, Good to know that you are benefiting from the flush. I am sure many of us would like to know that how are you able to find the effectiveness of flushing? Is that the draining of flushed liquid contains some rust deposits too or the iron colour?
I have never had my car's radiator flushed and it is still fantastic. My car is 11 years old too. What I do is just ensure that everything is changed, replaced at the specified intervals.

Regards,
Saket

[zoombiee]

Originally Posted by saket77

Zoombiee, Good to know that you are benefiting from the flush. I am sure many of us would like to know that how are you able to find the effectiveness of flushing? Is that the draining of flushed liquid contains some rust deposits too or the iron colour?
I have never had my car's radiator flushed and it is still fantastic. My car is 11 years old too. What I do is just ensure that everything is changed, replaced at the specified intervals.

Regards,
Saket

Palio has a valve that shifts between hot and cold air depending on temperature selected. Coolant fluid flows through that valve. This valve had got jammed and was not moving because of the rust accumulated. And yes it was powdered rust. Everytime I do a radiator flush, I have this valve removed and check for rust accumulation and though there is accumulation, I see the quantity generally the same. Typically radiators piping should not rust since its made of aluminium (again depends on car). Some parts of the piping however (outside radiator) are made of materials that may rust. The propensity is high in Palio's. I have a 5 yr old SX4 too. I dont see any rust accumulation issues there and do not use radiator flushing. So what I say is that there is no golden rule, you look at evidence and take requisite action.
Btw please do let me know the color of iron .