[Diesel_convert]

Rapid has given me issues with the brake discs and some rubber bushings over 53k kms and 3 years. I really dont like their stingy warranty policy where everything little thing needs to be fought for and where the priority of the service center is to try and fleece you.

Where I really have to fault them is their predatory pricing with spares and not having the option to buy them directly from the manufacturer. CCI should really push the penalties up for not selling spares over the counter. If spares are available online people can buy the cars with eyes wide open. No shock about 60k headlamps!

VW is the car equivalent to the cheap android phones, you get them cheap but expect no spares or service!

[anandbhat]

After having owned Skoda Laura for about 7 years, this is what I did.
I stuck to Vinayaka Skoda in Bangalore, that to a particular service adviser all these years. My experience with the dealer has been much better and probably had to visit 3-4 times in the last 7 years that I owned this car between the regular services.
But last when my turbo conked, the car was with dealer for 15 days, and promptly returned as promised.
On the technical competency, I definitely agree it is sub par at least from what I have seen with Skoda. But when I tried to diagnose something myself, they were very co-operative and listened to me.
Also, what really matters is the people in the dealership that make the difference. Having said that, there are enough and more issues with VAG group in terms of after sales, while others are not way too better either.
Case in point, Chevvy dealers are as less knowledgeable as well in my experience.

[i74js]

Does this mean there is no hope with these cars in India as sales from Indian subcontinent does not even contribute to 1% of their global sales and thus this market as such will always stay below the radar of these companies.

Whatever else has been said including that each and every decision is made in Germany and therefore no respite for customers; dealer experience for majority of members has also been sub par.

Does it really make sense for either parties (manufacturer as well as buyers) to look at each other?

If they make good cars; why don't they want them to run properly and why not pamper their customer? It's not easy to create liking for a product and if VAG product is liked by many, the only expectation from the company is about being reasonable to customers after selling the products - is this demand from customers unreasonable?

[Akshay1234]

Originally Posted by itwasntme

While this is probably good, what I feel is that their service technicians don't seem to be up to the task of diagnosing issues and simply decree replacement of the mechanical part when it could be a simple electronic sensor or sensor interface issue.

They definitely are not up to the task. Its probably because of poor training. In the BMW workshops I've had conversations with the techs there, and all of them know what you are talking about and know the vehicles inside out.

Originally Posted by fine69

Lastly, not everyone would call Skoda cars 'Value for Money'. Its not really a VFM product if the down payment is reasonable but the maintenance or operating costs are high. Not just the costs but it eats into your peace of mind and effort.

I personally would say value for money. Compared to the big 3 you do get a lot of the qualities of them paying a lot less. Also part costs are ok by me, but its just that wrong diagnosis and things like that make you end up spending more on unnecessary repairs and replacements.

Originally Posted by AJITHAAA

Heard it from a from a friend of mine who works for a tier one supplier and who interacts with various OEMs including VW India, that VW Germany maintains an iron grip on operations in India to a level that every small decision will be taken by Germany. The VW people here are in the dark to level that they do not even know the function of a feature, on the part they are procuring from a vendor. Often they ask the vendor for details. Every service issue has to be reported to Germany. Every part change will be recommended from there. Should explain the delay.

I highly disagree. If Germany maintained an iron grip on operations things would have changed a long time ago. And I don't think the Germans have gone soft. It doesn't take Skoda long to take decisions, even after that when a part is ordered everyone is just clueless as to when it will come.

Look at Honda and Toyota, now they keep a watch on the service centres. Walk in to one and see how professional they are as compared to the jokers here.

Originally Posted by quickdraw

Hopefully I won't have to test that out, because I've had a horrid experience with BMW Premium Selection/Finance and Service. I've sent them email with photographic proof that they dirtied the interior/did shoddy work/scratched the car and they deny it. Going to give them a chance to rectify thats why holding off the initial review of my car.

BMW service is honestly quite pathetic for the price you pay, all we can do is cross fingers and hope nothing goes wrong.

With you emailing them they should reply. If not then call their helpline, and trust me they'll sort it out.

Originally Posted by pc73

I am given to believe the owner of VW Bangalore/Downtown also owns Dakshin Honda (they are also located close by on opposite sides of the same road) but there is a night and day difference between these two dealerships - so not sure if one can totally blame dealer/A.S.S management alone since they do a good job for other manufacturers. Folks at VW Bangalore/Downtown dealership come across as unprofessional, demotivated, incompetent while folks at Dakshin Honda are relatively more professional, driven and helpful.

Exactly! A large amount of it is because of the vehicle manufacturer. Honda really keeps a tab on its dealers.

Originally Posted by Dry Ice

Hoping you get rid of your problems soon! ATB

By my problems I assume you are talking about my VAG cars. Anyone want em?

[printh]

I have a vento tdi and it is outright scarier after reading this thread.I think i have made a mistake going for a VAG car. First of all, they pollute and it is disheartening to know that i am polluting and damaging this atmosphere more than others.

Second, i am worrying day and night which part will fail & when? Third, it has got me worried about the haggles and quarrels i might have to put up with their A.S.S to rectify any fault & whether i will be cheated in it or not? Fourth, whether i will be able to bear the cost for rectifying any problems with my measly income?

For instance, i was charged 800 INR for rat-bite damage to wires at 2 places & 610 INR for oil top up (the amount topped up was unknown as they didn`t return the 1 L oil bottle despite me stressing that many times).

I was so so carried away by the "German engineering & build" myth that i bought this car with the nearest 3 A.S.S being 50 kms , 175 & 200 kms far from my home. All these fashionable terms are just a myth IMHO. Only if the engineering works well, then it makes some sense for labelling it as awesome (read German as we people used say).

P.S: Sorry but just couldn't resist the rant.

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[petrol_power]

I have worked in 3 companies in sales (2 of them being the market leaders in their respective product line) and both of them had a proper system of addressing the issues (customer is the king policy) as well as any complaint by customer against dealers/distributors were considered so seriously that they are terminated if the feedback is bad.
And the third company, which was not the market share leader was like VW. Company itself was not so aggressive or energetic to become the brand leaders and hence that drowsy attitude was passed down to the dealers as well and the dealers of that company were never questioned. Obviously the service was the worst in that company.

VW dealers playing around with customers, but still not facing lockdown (even a warning to improve their service) by VW clearly shouts out the careless and negligent attitude of VW for Indian market. Lucky are those ppl having a service center managed and maintained by some good hearts.

Dealers will start giving good service only when the company decides so and tighten the screws. As of now, in the eyes of VW, India may be belonging to one of the least priority market, and may be once in future, when other markets get saturated, they might concentrate on India.

[graaja]

There are various factors that decide one's after sales experience.

1. The technician your car ends up with, the level of training, experience and how perfect he does his job.
2. Availability of spare parts.
3. Relationship management of the people at the workshop, how they interact with customers, how they set expectations, how they are willing to resolve problems etc.
4. The attitude of the management towards customer service and their willingness to help customers and resolve issues.

When #1, #2 and #3 are good, this results in a 5 star experience. When a combination or all of these are bad, #4 becomes the most important factor. If the management is pro-customer, though there may be dissatisfaction during service, the end will always be good. It is when all the four fail, the experience becomes disastrous. This can happen irrespective of the company. If the dealer is not good, you end up unhappy even with a Honda or Hyundai.

In the 18 months of owning the Jetta, it had to be sent to the workshop 5 times, a paint job on the left side door, 6 months free checkup, 15K service, front bumper and fender replacement because of a minor fender bender, and battery warranty replacement. With Polo GT TSi, it had to visit the workshop once for the recall related to hand brake and a small paint touch up job. My experience during each of these occasions:

Occasion - 1
Paint job - Excellent. 5 stars. They delivered the car in 36 hours as promised, with excellent workmanship.

Occasion - 2
6 months free service - Excellent, 5 stars. They delivered the car in 4 hours as promised, and in perfect condition.

Occasion - 3
15K service - Excellent, 5 stars. They delivered the car in 2 days as promised (took 2 days because I had asked for 3M paint protection work), in excellent condition.

Occasion - 4
Front bumper replacement - Very good, 4 stars. The insurance claim went very smooth, the car was returned in excellent condition, as good as new. The only issue was sourcing the part. The front bumper took a week to source, because of which the car had to spend 10 days in the workshop.

Occasion - 5
Battery replacement - Average, 3 stars. The guy who came to change the battery messed it up big time, and it took 2 days to get the car back. And I was not very happy with the condition the car was returned as well. Hadn't it been for the intervention of a senior executive, this experience could have been much worse.

Occasion - 6
Polo GT TSi recall, and paint job - Average, 3 stars. The hand brake recall was a 2 hours job, and I did not even have to go to the workshop. But due to overload at the paint shop, it took two days to get the car.

During the 5th and 6th occasions, #1, #2 and #3 failed. But #4 helped. On both these occasions, a senior executive, Mr Vibhu stepped in, set things right, and resolved the issues quickly. Because of this, though I was unhappy during the service, I ended up happy with the final results.

Summarizing, my experience with the Coimbatore VW dealership has been very good so far. When things failed at the workshop, the customer friendly attitude of the management saved the day.

I think Chethan's good experience with the Mysore VW dealership is another example of how a good dealership can result in a positive experience.

[Dr.Suraj]

Wow! I had heard of these things, and someone I know owns a Fabia, a Rapid & a Polo. Complete fan of the german build. God bless him.

This is completely OT - but seriously reading this makes me want to go and give everybody at Concorde Motors, Worli a big hug and profusely thank the GM there Mr. Raju Patil. & I thought I was having a bad time with Tata. Turns out they have been amazing to me !

There go my plans of getting the Octavia in the future.

Have you ever tried escalating beyond the regional managers ?
Have you ever received replies from the GM?
I hear there is another workshop, JMD? , in Vashi. It's supposed to be better. Have you tried that ?
Also, the flatbed everytime - how much does that cost? & who pays?

[bosporus]

Originally Posted by akshay1234

So there are many reasons not to buy a VAG car. For starters they are unethical, as they have shown the world with their emission norm cheating. In the early 2000s they were notoriously unreliable (Skodas and Audis at least). If your a historian then the fact that it was founded by Nazis will keep you away.

Akshay, I guess it's time to expand the old saying, 'never post a letter when you're angry' to forum posts. I've always really respected your posts for being knowledgeable and nuanced - anger is the only reason I can ascribe for this post being neither.

- The title is plain misleading, almost mischievous. Your examples are only from Skoda, yet, your title says VAG. It's misleading because a) your personal experience is limited to Skoda and b) while Skoda has set a pattern of bad service (though I do have friends who've had incredible experiences and will swear by them), VW & Audi have not. Also, it's simplistic because it ignores the way independent companies within a larger holding company work.

- Ignores the realities of how car companies are run: Individual brands within a larger holding company are usually run as independent companies. Not only does this mean various companies will have different personalities in charge, with different management styles & priorities, and sometimes different processes for dealing with issues, it also, importantly, means varying sales performance, and by extension, varying degrees of leverage in controlling their partners. The old Skoda was corrupt, which is why it went to the dogs (can tell you various horror stories, offline). The new Skoda, however, is stuck because it barely sells and therefore, has zero leverage with its dealers. There's only so much it can crack down. On the other hand, even the marginal decent sales performance of VW gives it better leeway to crack the whip, as I've personally evidenced over the last 4 years, with 2 VW's in the family - at least as evidenced by me in Gurgaon & Chandigarh.

Since it boils down to individuals who run the show & to local market performance, their after-sales also similarly varies across geographies: for instance, the same horrid Skoda is known for customer service in a lot of other countries. Similarly, different brands from the same group and competing in the same market & the same geography will have differing after-sales performance: Porsche, a VAG company, typically tops customer satisfaction charts, while Lamborghini, also a VAG brand, never comes even close.

Taking another example, I won't touch GM with a bargepole in India - in fact, the General Manager, Service, GM India, who was a friend, once told me there was only one service station in the whole of NCR where he could recommend me taking my car even if he called them in advance (had the misfortune of owning a Corsa once). But is that a true reflection of GM as a group, across the globe?

The point is, it's usually never about the group. Of course, some companies will be better at customer service, ideologically and with their processes than others, but usually very few will merit the broad-strokes brush of tar that you're painting VAG with.

- Everyone's evil. No one's evil: There are great SA's, and there are horrible SA's; there are great service stations and there are horrible ones. And this is true across companies. I suspect Skoda has too many of the bad kind; I suspect VW is somewhere in the middle - I'm a very happy VW customer, and most of the service people I've interacted with have been good. But the clincher for me has been that whenever I was unhappy and walked up to the service manager or the GM, they moved mountains to make me happy, and stuck to their commitments. But, I digress. My real point was, imagine me writing a post, basis my experiences, saying "VAG companies after-sales in India is god's gift to mankind". Limited & localised experience, so not justified.

As an aside, bigger companies like Maruti or Hyundai have so many dealers, the bad eggs don't get highlighted. On the other hand, with a limited number of dealers, the bad eggs just shine through & affect the brand image with a Skoda or VW.

- Everyone's evil. No one's evil: PART 2: You singled out VAG as an unethical group for the emissions scandal. May I point you towards the Indian favourite, Toyota's accelerator scandal, that actually ended up killing people and for which they paid a $1.3 billion settlement . Or GM. Or Ford. Or virtually every single car company. The fact is, the way the business operates, most companies will try to get away with it, when they can, most of the times because of how decision making happens, and sometimes because of one idiot who's looking out to save his bonus.

Also, a historical inaccuracy: while VW was founded during Nazi Germany, it was NOT founded by a Nazi. It was (and still is) mostly owned by the German Govt. and back then, development was funded by the govt. with the aim of producing a car for every man. But, inaccurate to call them Nazi.

- They're bad because they're good: As an aside, I think because of the kind of cars VW / Skoda make, a lot of enthusiasts buy them. And enthusiasts are entitled, persnickety SOBs, who will create a stink if they are even slightly unhappy. And importantly, are active on forums such as this one, and are motivated enough to share their grief, with indignation, with the world. So, perhaps we're just more unhappy with VW / Skoda cars because we know more & therefore have higher expectations. I've noticed something similar happens with Fiat as well.


P.S.: I don't mean to belittle your misery and I would be really unhappy if all you've mentioned happened to me. My reason for the rambling is that you've used a broad brush to malign not just the guilty party, but everything else in sight. It would be ok if this post were directed at Skoda, but when directed at VAG, I think this fails the test of proportional indignation & proportional damage.

~~~~~~

Originally Posted by Rahul Rao

The issue is not with VW but with the dealers in your city. Boycott dealers who behave this way, and you will not have any thing to complain.

Originally Posted by Ketan T

I agree with you Rahul. I get my Polo serviced from BU Bhandari, Pune. They are very professional. So yes, it depends on your luck and the ASC in your city.

+1. Perfectly put.

Originally Posted by coolboy007

BMW workshop guys had put black marks on a few areas of my interiors and when i mentioned about it, they sent people home to clean the whole interiors, can not even dream of it with VAG.

They do that, as a matter of fact. Without you even asking for it. 4 years with my Vento 1.6 TDI, and they've dry-cleaned my car 6 times. They'll put a few careless marks, apologise, and offer to dry-clean to make up for it. The Vento TSI, which is barely an year old has already been dry-cleaned once, again, for free.

[Aniruddha_Ch]

Sorry to your VRs spending more time at A.S.S. Poor state of affairs at VAG, this is 2nd incident in this particular week. I agree with Akshay that VAG makes fun to drive cars which many of us aspire to own. IMO Skoda Rapid, VW Jetta and Superb sounds VFM proposition in their respective segments, but horror stories are making switch people to other car manufacturers.
I am sure many of us will agree with fact that in contrast to Superb, Toyota corolla may not be fun to drive or solidly built, keeping that aside it's very dependable car and gives complete peace of mind, at end of the day that's something which counts.

Akshay if you don't mind, will you please share the odometer readings of your VRs as well as Yeti and cost incurred for above mentioned repairs.

[GeeTee TSI]

My experience on VW service centers were a mixed bag . One known point of contact at the service center is mandatory, since the average walk-in customer is looked straight through as if he is invisible!
Highlights:
Very professional on body shop front, near perfect execution.
When the the C pillar needed repainting, the GT TSI sticker was removed. Since I could not put up with the sticker on just one side, I ordered for the same (now that is a rare part ), contrary to many members who have taken pains to have it removed. It was made available in about 10 days even though the SA had to identify the part number (notwithstanding its ridiculous pricing of 1.5K that fact that it is imported from the Czech Republic)

Lowlights:
Cars are forever at risk, the PDI checklist is actually required after every visit to the A.S.C.
Twice I had pointed out scratches made during its time at the Service Center though it was attended to without a fuss followed up by feedback call!
The technicians seem crude, had broken the idol on the dashboard as well as the 12V flap.
They are aloof to dirty patches on the interior and grubby finger prints on the windscreen before handing over the car, I bring the car straight home and give it a wash.
Call it a rub-off effect, but even the 3M team at the A.S.C did a poor job of polishing. Door sills were rough with the polishing cream visible in all crevices and panel gaps (akin to look post a shave but before rinsing)

The worst part is when the staff bluff with confidence. When I pointed out that service due icon remain on after the service, was told with a serious face that 'it does not matter, just ignore'

Is it because the Service centers do not have to win customers? There is queue of anxious owners waiting on any given day and are at the mercy of the sole service center and there is no competition

[Diesel_convert]

Maybe what will help is a standard operating procedure to help customers to get service for VAG cars, either by escalation points made public or just a how to deal with your dealer pdf. If your car has no issues or you have contacts in the dealership you are fine but the moment the car has niggles and you are a regular joe all I can say is good luck!

What's interesting is that world over they are known for being substandard in terms of after sales & service. Why should we in India be surprised!

[coolboy007]

Originally Posted by bosporus

They do that, as a matter of fact. Without you even asking for it. 4 years with my Vento 1.6 TDI, and they've dry-cleaned my car 6 times. They'll put a few careless marks, apologise, and offer to dry-clean to make up for it. The Vento TSI, which is barely an year old has already been dry-cleaned once, again, for free.

You must be sharing a great rapport with your service managers buddy, the VW service centre in Delhi will not even wipe the car's exteriors for free, leave apart dry cleaning. You may have got a great dealer but honestly Volkswagen India's customer support is down right pathetic. I have tried mailing them multiple times and i can not stoop down to their levels of begging for parts being changed under warranty. Their test drivers are stupid too, for them every single noise or vibration is normal. I reached the service centre 15 minutes late and the lady at reception instead of welcoming me, told me that am late and i have to wait for 30 minutes now, that too very rudely, which part of the world does this happen? Same is the story with Fahrenheit Skoda, Moti nagar. The electronic feedback machine is always switched off because they know what feedback they will get.

We have owned so many cars from the past 20 years but things like injectors going bad for which they estimated 5 hours but held me up at the service station for over 10 hours because VW could not send warranty approvals, in which car does injectors blow up so soon? Engine mounts went bad but even they were not covered under warranty. I have infact made a long list of parts going bad and i will share it here, these failures are all in my car.

List of parts going bad so far in 3 years and under 40k kms -

1.Brake discs * 2 = Not covered under warranty since VW offers segment lowest 6 month/10,000 kms warranty on these parts, i even sent a mail to VW germany and my car was at 12k kms. Ford changed the rotors+pads at 19,000 kms as there was a slight judder, every thing under warranty. Friend's Swift had brake squealing and they happily changed both things under warranty a 15k kms, we were in and out in 2.5 hours.

2. Brake pads = Thanks to stupid quality rotors which kill the brake pads, you have to get them changed as well, not covered under warranty.

3. Engine mount = Went bad at 34,000 kms and this is a part which rarely ever fails. VW uses rubber mounts whereas even cheaper cars like Liva/Figo/Swift use hydraulic mounts. Not covered under warranty since it is a rubber part. Paid 2500 out of my pocket.

4. Headlight = The fog lamps have faded from inside within 25k kms. My friend's Rapid had water getting inside and we were at the service centre for 5 hours where Skoda did their hoopla of clicking photos etc. We were sent back and called back next day for another inspection by a Skoda engineer. Were so pissed off that we got the work done outside, no one is free to keep sitting at their workshop for such a small thing. Parts like these are replaced under warranty (no questions asked ) by all manufacturers. Not even talking about Maruti/Hyundai here.

5. Horn pad = Horn pad is not working from right side, showed it to the service centre and they said they will rectify it. Got the car back and they did absolutely nothing, told me to come when am free and they will again have a look at it, if they can not solve, then i need to come the 3rd or 4th time to get it replaced.

6. Auto up/down = Front passenger side auto up is working erratically so even that has failed, not yet shown to svc.

7. Oil consumption = The car still continues to consume oil despite clocking 40k kms and it is just not my car. Many other Vento owners have oil coming to minimum mark within 7-9k kms of service.

8. Injectors - Oh, the injectors. This is such a widespread issue like brake juddering and VW has an official bulletin on it and mine as well as my friend's Rapid falls under it. Skoda blatantly refused to help and they said they will change the injectors the day car breaks down. I got a MFMA done and the chap told me that all is okay, when i asked to see the log report (they told me it was not allowed), i was then told that 2 injectors are gone and will take 10 days for parts to arrive.

I stood there at the service centre for 10 hours like a fool since they had said it will take a max 4-5 hours to do it. Bloody took them 10 hours because the chaps at VW were sipping hot tea and could not approve the warranty claim, as usual, they clicked atleast 50 photos of those dead injectors.

I sent mails to VW saying that they know the other 2 injectors could fail anytime, what about it. I got such a good reply that they will be changed when they fail. I have stopped taking my car outside Delhi because i know the other 2 injectors can give up any time, VW's service network is non existent as well.

If i remember, your workshop charged you labour for doing injector work whereas mine did not. Which workshop charges labour for warranty jobs? Have seen so many cases where Vento/Rapid owners were charged labour for doing some thing under warranty.

9. Suspension - Struts failed at 35k kms, mounts gave up, stabilizer links gave up and even lower arm bearing gave up at 40 k kms. If instead of VW, this was a Hyundai, Maruti, Ford or even BMW. All of them cover their suspension (atleast struts, stabilizer links and mounts) till 40-45k kms. Maruti does it till 60k kms and BMW even covers bushes till 60k kms. I had to pay for every single part since VW again offers segment lowest suspension warranty at 6 month/10,000 kms. Suspension parts are all made by Gabriel, which is not a very great brand to be used by a german company. Jetta/Laura come with Sachs as standard.

10. Shifter mechanism - Told me at last service that shifter mechanism of gearbox is faulty since i had complained of a rough gearshift. I was told that warranty would not cover since it was a wear n tear part. Sent mails to VW and they forwarded it back to the dealer. Game over.

11. Beading squeaks - It has been so long but VW have not been able to come out with a solution for the irritating beading squeaks. Am i expected to just stand with a can of WD 40 in my hand every weekend?

12. AC vent breaks off - This is another VW special, never heard about ac vents breaking off but you can find so many cases on the forum. This car does not even sell 1000-1200 a month and there seems to be some thing wrong with the quality of vents used in Polo/Vento. Jetta does not have this issue but VW does not come forward to accept their fault, all they can do is charge money for every thing.

13. Rear suspension thud - This is a design defect once again. I have had a few thuds in my new F30 as well but those were high speed impacts where the sharp rebound of front struts could not cope up. Vento's rear suspension makes a nerve wracking loud thud even if you cross a speed breaker at 10-20 and this is not related to rebound as the rear is soft. I had to put TRW struts at rear which finally solved the issue.

Our Linea has been on much worse roads than this car, driven by my father who does not even look at potholes but the only suspension part changed in that car at 60k kms was stabilizer link. Not even a single strut had leaked oil. Even Fiat offers 40,000 kms suspension warranty. Our Ecosport is close to doing 30k kms on similar roads and suspension is in top shape.

This car without any doubt has so many reliability issues, when ever i open a Polo/Vento/Jetta/Rapid/Octavia thread on team bhp, some are crying over inejctors, sunroof rattles, fuel pump failures, egr failures and what not.

You said that those who buy VW are enthusiasts and have a keen eye for every thing, i agree with some part of it but believe me that things like injector failures and brake judders dont require keen eyes.

My Vento has been an epitome of unreliability and i will never ever buy a VAG product again now. I still may find a good dealer but the management at VW India is hopeless, you can keep escalating but nothing will happen. I am not okay if am left at the mercy of my dealership for every thing, the dealers are not scared of the parent company. You should see how Maruti/Toyota dealers are afraid of headquarters - one complaint and all hell breaks loose.

I do not expect them to match Toyota or Maruti but they can atleast keep up with brands like Ford, i found Fiat better than VW. If i used to complaint at Fiat, i always got a call from Pune, send a mail to VW and the dealership will just call you in for wasting your time. The only reason i have still kept this car is the brilliant 1.6 TDi engine, if not for it, i would have sold it long back and freed myself of the stress/tension this car and VW's service gives.

It is my personal opinion but i have found both VW/Skoda to be unethical and cheap when it comes to repairing their cars under warranty for anything. They offer segment lowest warranty and then find reasons to reject warranty claims, it is always a disappointing experience dealing with the dealer and VW India.

[Akshay1234]

Originally Posted by bosporus

Akshay, I guess it's time to expand the old saying, 'never post a letter when you're angry' to forum posts. I've always really respected your posts for being knowledgeable and nuanced - anger is the only reason I can ascribe for this post being neither.

- The title is plain misleading, almost mischievous. Your examples are only from Skoda, yet, your title says VAG. It's misleading because a) your personal experience is limited to Skoda and b) while Skoda has set a pattern of bad service (though I do have friends who've had incredible experiences and will swear by them), VW & Audi have not. Also, it's simplistic because it ignores the way independent companies within a larger holding company work.

I appreciate your views, but I wasn't angry when I wrote this. Frustrated? A fair amount. I have actually been thinking about writing this thread for a while, perhaps a month or more but held back. I have been pushed beyond my tolerance which is why I decided to finally pen this down.

As for the title being misleading. It is not. My examples are from Skoda, yet I have personally witnessed similar situations in Audi and VW. There are a few people who have replied in the thread who also have faced similar issues with the brands. Its not that I am trying to malign the full group, this is the situation.

A friends R8 V10+ whose DSG failed within 2 weeks of ownership. Despite having the most expensive Audi sold in India, they took over 2 weeks to fly the part down from Germany. Now for our normal vehicles that may be an acceptable time limit. But for someone who is paying over 3 crores that's pushing it. No apologies were offered or anything.

Another friend filled petrol in his diesel Vento (pump person did it and my friend wasn't paying attention). It was flatbedded to the workshop. 2 days later he went to pick up the car. Upon taking it over 2500rpm there was violent shuddering and the car felt starved of fuel. Upon asking the service manager there (Yes! the service manager) why this was happening, the explanation given was that the cars are not meant to be driven over 2500 rpm and its normal. Upon raising it further I think some injectors and then the fuel pump were changed. Needless to say the vehicle spent a month and a half at the workshop, and had 3 follow up visits.

And I was personally there for the above two, this is not just hearsay. And I can go on and on. I chose to only post my experiences with Skoda in the first post. But that certainly doesn't mean things are much better with the other two.

I don't think there is anyone who swears by Skoda service, besides maybe your friend. Some people are happy with it (I was), but its never been great.

Originally Posted by bosporus

- Ignores the realities of how car companies are run: Individual brands within a larger holding company are usually run as independent companies. Not only does this mean various companies will have different personalities in charge, with different management styles & priorities, and sometimes different processes for dealing with issues, it also, importantly, means varying sales performance, and by extension, varying degrees of leverage in controlling their partners. The old Skoda was corrupt, which is why it went to the dogs (can tell you various horror stories, offline). The new Skoda, however, is stuck because it barely sells and therefore, has zero leverage with its dealers. There's only so much it can crack down. On the other hand, even the marginal decent sales performance of VW gives it better leeway to crack the whip, as I've personally evidenced over the last 4 years, with 2 VW's in the family - at least as evidenced by me in Gurgaon & Chandigarh.

Yes there are independent companies under a larger holding brand. And they are run independently, but their processes seem to be very close.

Audi and Skoda share the plant at Aurangabad. VW and Skoda share the plant at Chakan. Spares come from both places for all the brands. They are not as independent as you think.

The old Skoda was corrupt, no doubt. But how is VW then giving dealers to older Skoda dealers who were part of the big mess, like Autobahn in Mumbai.

I disagree that Skoda has less control over its dealers because the cars sell less. That is a silly excuse. Before the Ecosport, Ford was not that hot in the market and yet their service standards and customer service were (and are) good.

Sales don't make after sales better. Its the better after sales which will make the sales better.

Originally Posted by bosporus

Since it boils down to individuals who run the show & to local market performance, their after-sales also similarly varies across geographies: for instance, the same horrid Skoda is known for customer service in a lot of other countries. Similarly, different brands from the same group and competing in the same market & the same geography will have differing after-sales performance: Porsche, a VAG company, typically tops customer satisfaction charts, while Lamborghini, also a VAG brand, never comes even close.

Taking another example, I won't touch GM with a bargepole in India - in fact, the General Manager, Service, GM India, who was a friend, once told me there was only one service station in the whole of NCR where he could recommend me taking my car even if he called them in advance (had the misfortune of owning a Corsa once). But is that a true reflection of GM as a group, across the globe?

The point is, it's usually never about the group. Of course, some companies will be better at customer service, ideologically and with their processes than others, but usually very few will merit the broad-strokes brush of tar that you're painting VAG with.

Of course it will not be the same in different markets. But I'm not concerned with Europe or any other markets. India is what we are talking about.

Porsche and Lambo are niche in India, and they do provide good service no doubt.

My friend why are you talking about the globe? My thread title clearly lists India.

I agree that it is never usually about the group. But in this case it is. Its a common phenomenon across the VAG group companies in India.

Originally Posted by bosporus

- Everyone's evil. No one's evil: There are great SA's, and there are horrible SA's; there are great service stations and there are horrible ones. And this is true across companies. I suspect Skoda has too many of the bad kind; I suspect VW is somewhere in the middle - I'm a very happy VW customer, and most of the service people I've interacted with have been good. But the clincher for me has been that whenever I was unhappy and walked up to the service manager or the GM, they moved mountains to make me happy, and stuck to their commitments. But, I digress. My real point was, imagine me writing a post, basis my experiences, saying "VAG companies after-sales in India is god's gift to mankind". Limited & localised experience, so not justified.

As an aside, bigger companies like Maruti or Hyundai have so many dealers, the bad eggs don't get highlighted. On the other hand, with a limited number of dealers, the bad eggs just shine through & affect the brand image with a Skoda or VW.

Again, my post is not only based on my vehicles. I have a lot of friends and acquaintances with Skodas, VWs and Audis. In Mumbai and in other cities. Needless to say the topic veers to vehicles whenever we meet. And I have not heard too many good things from anyone.

The SAs may be bad. But what about when I am dealing with the service manager? What about when the dealership has done their bit, ordered the part, taken me to the parts manager and shown me the part has been ordered. But yet they receive no communication or estimation as to when the parts will arrive?

I am truly happy for you that you have not faced any trouble, and I hope that you don't either. But the fact is that you are the exception, not the norm.

Find even a fraction of the amount of people who have had good experiences, and I have found who have had bad experiences, and if you do please go ahead and shout from the rooftops that VAG service is the greatest. Heck ill join you. But I have a fair bit of confidence that the amount of people getting good (not acceptable, but good service) is miniscule.

And in my opinion, things like sending someone to clean the marks left on your car after a workshop visit, it not good service. Good service is when care is taken to make sure the marks are not made in the first place. Or even after the marks are made it is noticed and cleaned before delivery.

Originally Posted by bosporus

- Everyone's evil. No one's evil: PART 2: You singled out VAG as an unethical group for the emissions scandal. May I point you towards the Indian favourite, Toyota's accelerator scandal, that actually ended up killing people and for which they paid a $1.3 billion settlement . Or GM. Or Ford. Or virtually every single car company. The fact is, the way the business operates, most companies will try to get away with it, when they can, most of the times because of how decision making happens, and sometimes because of one idiot who's looking out to save his bonus.

Also, a historical inaccuracy: while VW was founded during Nazi Germany, it was NOT founded by a Nazi. It was (and still is) mostly owned by the German Govt. and back then, development was funded by the govt. with the aim of producing a car for every man. But, inaccurate to call them Nazi.

I seem to have offended you, because you are just nitpicking now.

The point was not to compare the ethics of VW to Toyota or any other brand. But as far as I know, what VW did was intentional. But what happened with Toyota was negligence.

Also Herr Hitler was quite involved in the making of the peoples car (the Beetle) and he was very much a Nazi. Please do not I'm not calling the company a Nazi. lol

Originally Posted by bosporus

- They're bad because they're good: As an aside, I think because of the kind of cars VW / Skoda make, a lot of enthusiasts buy them. And enthusiasts are entitled, persnickety SOBs, who will create a stink if they are even slightly unhappy. And importantly, are active on forums such as this one, and are motivated enough to share their grief, with indignation, with the world. So, perhaps we're just more unhappy with VW / Skoda cars because we know more & therefore have higher expectations. I've noticed something similar happens with Fiat as well.

There are many peoples whose expectations are in the clouds. I'm not one of them. I will certainly make a hue and a cry if it is warranted. Which is what I'm doing now.

Similar happens with Fiat because the Fiat service is shitty too. I owned one till about 3 years ago.

Originally Posted by bosporus

P.S.: I don't mean to belittle your misery and I would be really unhappy if all you've mentioned happened to me. My reason for the rambling is that you've used a broad brush to malign not just the guilty party, but everything else in sight. It would be ok if this post were directed at Skoda, but when directed at VAG, I think this fails the test of proportional indignation & proportional damage.

I stand by what I say. And I respect your views, but mine are not going to change anytime soon. What I have written is based on me personally witnessing terrible service by the other brands in the group too.

Yes there are people who are happy with the service they get (I was one too), but when things go out of hand I am going to call it like it is.

[harsh.m06]

4+ years of ownership of Vento Highline Diesel (2011 model) and the experience has been pleasant for me. I'm about the complete 36,000 kms and haven't faced a single issue till date. I know 36k km is a bit less for a diesel car but my yearly running is limited to 9k kms per year. I had the 4th service done few days back at Volkswagen Bareilly (Rohailkhand Automobiles) and as with everytime, their services are upto the mark. I had a prior appointment a day before. I walked in at 11am and the car was ready before 2pm. I insisted on a particular mechanic who would be servicing my car as I've known him since a long time (before he was working at VW's workshop). Attaching a few pics below.



Underbody being inspected



Front brakes being checked and cleaned up



Fuel filter replacement



for diagnostics

Meanwhile.. I chilled out like a boss at the Customer Lounge. Being a weekday, there weren't many vehicles around.



Watched TV and..



had a nice cup of tea with lays and read the latest issue of autocar (october version in the pic)



Nice and shiny, just the way I like it