[tbppjpr]

Originally Posted by RJ411

I have gut feeling that VAG is underestimating the buying power of Indian customers and considering our market as third world (Atleast for VW and Skoda).

Originally Posted by coolmel

And that is exactly the point! They've to really rise to the occasion now given the huge mess they're in.

I don't think its VAG which is not taking India seriously or taking us as third world country because if they want to 'cheat' then all markets are same for them and they do same in all the markets, be it US, UK or India. For example their recent pollution scandal, they didn't have double standards anywhere. Even if come onto the after sales service, VW is not known for their customer services in other countries as well. Or for that matter the cars they sell here come with same structural strength like their cars sold in other markets and thats what they are known for.


Its the likes of India's most loved brand Maruti Suzuki who definitely take India as third world country by having double standards on quality of products they sell here. It had been proven in the past that they sell different quality cars in other markets like UK and sell far inferior quality cars here in India. Their cars are heavily compromised on build quality and safety front which is more shocking and serious concern. Even the Maruti chairman's stand on safety also indicates who takes us as third world country but nobody bothers.

[saket77]

Originally Posted by tbppjpr

I don't think its VAG which is not taking India seriously or taking us as third world country because if they want to 'cheat' then all markets are same for them and they do same in all the markets, be it US, UK or India. For example their recent pollution scandal, they didn't have double standards anywhere. Even if come onto the after sales service, VW is not known for their customer services in other countries as well. Or for that matter the cars they sell here come with same structural strength like their cars sold in other markets and thats what they are known for.

Yes, VW is at least not selling 'India specific' cars at least from what is prima facie. However, I don't think that the service standards would be that bad abroad, esp. the kind of stunts Skoda pulls on its customers, in absence of consumer protection laws. On the scandal, the less said, the better.

Originally Posted by tbppjpr

Its the likes of India's most loved brand Maruti Suzuki who definitely take India as third world country by having double standards on quality of products they sell here. It had been proven in the past that they sell different quality cars in other markets like UK and sell far inferior quality cars here in India. Their cars are heavily compromised on build quality and safety front which is more shocking and serious concern. Even the Maruti chairman's stand on safety also indicates who takes us as third world country but nobody bothers.

I simply cannot help applauding your point here. It is vastly for the Indian market that has given Suzuki the strength that it is now show-casing world wide. And again in the absence of any safety laws, it has been selling cheaper but compromised cars (esp. compared to European counterparts) here. Probably, the effect of being 'produced for India'. It is not that Suzuki does not knows how to make safe cars, esp. when some of its cars have outscored the likes of even VW & Fiats in International crash tests. Their cars consistently score 4-5 stars internationally, but India does not get them!
However, things are looking brighter to me now as Maruti Suzuki is now targeting safety as their priority now with introduction of Airbags/ABS options even with basic variants.

Also, about the statement by Mr. Bhargav, as I have stated before on the forum, I believe, it was his line of defence on the then line-up of Maruti cars that he had to sell rather than Company's strategy (or stand) on safety.

Regards,
Saket

[tbppjpr]

Originally Posted by saket77

I simply cannot help applauding your point here. It is vastly for the Indian market that has given Suzuki the strength that it is now show-casing world wide. And again in the absence of any safety laws, it has been selling cheaper but compromised cars (esp. compared to European counterparts) here. Probably, the effect of being 'produced for India'. It is not that Suzuki does not knows how to make safe cars, esp. when some of its cars have outscored the likes of even VW & Fiats in International crash tests. Their cars consistently score 4-5 stars internationally, but India does not get them!

Yeah, this is so frustrating to see that Suzuki knows, make and sell much safer cars in other countries but choose to manufacture and sell much inferior grade cars here in India. The inferior quality means not the safety features or gizmos, its the structural strength where they heavily compromise.

However, things are looking brighter to me now as Maruti Suzuki is now targeting safety as their priority now with introduction of Airbags/ABS options even with basic variants.

Airbag/ABS have already been provided by Maruti but what matters more is the structural integrity. Now its not the weight or thud I am talking about, its the grade of the steel used to manufacture the internal components like beams, pillars in the structure of the car. Structure of a car like Swift collapsing during the crash tests is much more serious concern than not having safety features like Airbags. If we had some strong law, Maruti would have ended up getting trapped in legal inquiry on this 'scam' till now.

Anyways, my point behind putting example of shortcomings of the most popular brand was to highlight much wider range of problems we have as a country. The after sales service scene in our country heavily relies on the dealerships. It depends on the the attitude of the dealership and mindsets of the people working at there. The case may be little better in case of companies like Maruti because of the competition situation got developed over the time between the more number of dealerships at same place but situation is pathetic in case of the companies having very few number of dealerships serving to large geographical area, for example VW, Skoda, Nissan etc.

We don't have any customer centric policies or law, neither companies have much control over the dealerships which work like third party entity. If any frustrated customer decides to take legal route to sort out the issues, the legal system makes his experience much more traumatic than the experience he faces at the dealership.

We don't have strong governing body which can effectively control the automobile sector. For example see how the authorities responded on recent VW pollution scandal or for that matter in case of other recent recalls by other manufacturers. Or take another issue, we automotive enthusiasts got shocked last year after knowing about the crash test result of cars manufactured in India for Indian customers. We saw no authority came to even make any single official statement on this such a serious concerns, forget about expecting the crash tests as compulsory norm in India. Okay, they don't care about mango-man, but what about VIPs? Minister Gopinath Munde got died last year in the car crash, suddenly there were talks about reforming traffic and automobile laws, taking vehicle safety more seriously etc-etc, but nothing happened, neither there is any hope in near future.

The range of problems is much wider, count the pathetic road conditions, scams in building roads, slow infrastructure development, no strict enforcement of traffic rules, non existent traffic sense in majority of people driving vehicles, pathetic parking space management and much more. All this says our country hasn't yet grown mature enough to take the automobile sector and related departments seriously.

[Viju]

Page No.5 of the "The miserable after-sales of the Volkswagen Auto Group in India" is all it took to reach "Airbag/ABS have already been provided by Maruti but what matters more is the structural integrity".

As hopeless as Maruti's safety might be, it is becoming annoying to see every thread discussing the same thing over and over again. What does MSIL's double standards have to do with VAG's service standards in India? Come on, guys.

[Aditya]

Mod Note : Please stick to the topic (The miserable after-sales of the Volkswagen Auto Group in India) in this thread. There are other threads to discuss other matters.

Thanks.

[volkman10]

Originally Posted by saket77

Yes, VW is at least not selling 'India specific' cars at least from what is prima facie.

What do you think Vento is? Vento was designed and developed specifically for India and it then became popular in other markets of the world.

Similar the upcoming Compact Sedan is being designed specifically for India and would extend to other markets.

What they now need to is focus on the After sales support that VW/Skoda owners are currently facing issues.

The Vento was also designed and developed specifically for India and it then became popular in other markets of the world.

http://auto.economictimes.indiatimes...-head/49977055

[Raja Rakesh]

I bought my Polo 1.2 TDI from Apple Auto Whitefield, Bangalore around January 2013.
Allow me to express my few experiences with Apple Auto.
First Service:
When I went for the first service after I clocked 15000 kms in Oct 2013, I got my car the next day with oil change normal checkup. While taking delivery, I asked the SA to check the head lights and Fog light as for me they were not bright enough and were out of focus. This was bad for me to drive the car on highways during night.

The SA told me that they have a computerized system to do light setting and at that time he cannot do that and asked me to come some other time. I was shocked to hear this from SA. Where have you ever heard of setting light by using computer? Dude! its a car not a space ship!! Then bought required tool and then did it myself which is a 5 min job. They refused to install anything on my car that is bought from outside of ASS, which I understand. And Ask me for the service bill for normal service: Rs11000/- approx. WOW!!! just to change 4.5L engine oil I was changed for Rs 1000 plus Rs 4500 to Rs 5000 for the engine oil. I know VW service is costly.

Second Service:
By the end of 2014 I had clocked 30000 kms, so took my Polo for 2nd service. This time I had a few issues like
1. there was noise coming from brake pedal whenever it is pressed.
2. engine noise inside the cabin has increased. Also, I have observed sometimes the rpm needle used to dance between 900 and 1100 rpm mark in stop and go B2B traffic. And sometimes I feel some king of vibration from engine when i stop on a signal. I asked to check the engine mounting.
3. some short of noise was coming from front left side suspension whenever the car go over bad patch of road but was not getting any sound while taking speed humps.
4. ac was not providing sufficient cooling.
5. front right side wiper blade was not removing water properly.

I informed all this to my SA which he noted down and assured me that he will make sure everything is fixed by next day. When I went on the next day afternoon to take my car back, my SA told me that everything is fixed, I took the car for a run to check all issues are fixed or not.

My findings:
1. Brake pedal noise is still there. SA and ASS senior Technician told me that there is no noise coming out of brake pedal. It took me 30 minutes to make them understand where the source of noise is and then they accepted that.
2. engine noise is not reduced a bit, I could here the engine loud even at a low rpm with everything closed. Where is The silent cabin as advertised by VW? I was told that, a 30000 kms run diesel engine will produce such high noise and is normal. I should not worry about it.
3. Suspension noise still there, nothing was done on this. SA took me to a muddy road at high speed and the switched off the engine. He was not able to hear any noise so they tried there best to make me understand that all is well.
4. AC filter was replaced and it was working better then before.
5. SA informed me that they changed both front wiper blade and rear one as well.

I asked them to fix everything and then give me the car, but they said everything is fine and I there is nothing to be fixed.

For all this they charged me Rs 13000/- approx. Sa told me that I can take my car and come back within 7 days if I get something is not working after service.

I was pissed off and irritated from this attitude and was thinking if they can;t fix what was already informed then what they will do if I come back in 7 days. I paid the money and took the car as I late for office. Thought of paying a visit to ASM next morning.

Next morning I went to ASM and told her whole story and told her if they are not capable of fixing it then let me know and I will take my car to another ASS and will inform all my friends and not to come their service center ever.

ASM asked me to calm down and asked a SA to check for the problems. He took one short round and came back to have discussion with ASM. The next thing I heard from ASM is that, all the issues will be fixed and car will be ready by evening. They will arrange it to be delivered by some one to my office in whitefield. This whole thing took 2 hrs. I took public transport to reach my office. BY evening when I didn't got any response from ASS, I called the SA and inquired about my car. He said they are working on it and i will get me car tomorrow morning 11:00 AM.

Someone mentioned here that "YOU Need to have Patience To Own a VAG Car". Sir, very true.

Next morning I went to ASS, meet ASM who informed me that car is ready and I can take a test ride. During test ride I found the only thing that is improved is nothing but my patience.

I realized, this is not going to work here. So went to ASM told her I am not satisfied with their service and still they can't fixed the issues in my car. ASM apologized to that and informed me that their SA's always get training from company but she is not sure how much they learn from it. Also, that every 8-12 months, SA's change their job. She took great pride in mentioning that earlier she had worked in Maruti, Mahindra and few other companies.

Interesting Bit - She didn't even know what is a ECU and what a fire wall is. And she is a ASM. Great!!! Its funny she told me all this crap when I told her that your SA dont even know what a fire wall is, and also the light incident from first service.

My Thoughts - "Ma'am Thats not gonna help. So cut the crap."

I asked her to provide me list of things they performed on my car. This time one SA came and informed me that they have updated ECU software, so my engine wil not vibrate and no dancing of rpm needle plus smooth engine with improved efficiency.

At this point I asked h9im if they have changed any mapping in ECU to which he said no we just updated ECU to latest version.
I asked them to provide me software latest and old software versions as a proof that they have updated it, which they were not able to fix.

Thats it. I can't spend days on making ASS guys understand problems and then fix things by myself to which i have to pay them good money.

3rd and Recent Encounter:
Earlier this year I came to USA and now my car is with my sister. Few months back she touched a pillar in parking lot while going reverse. This made a dent on the right fender and front bumper came out. She took it to Apple Auto ASS as that was nearest to her office where this incident happened. They checked for damage and informed her that front right fender, front bumper and right headlight assembly need to be replaced. They have the parts but will wait for the insurance guys to inspect. Rest all is good as it was a low speed impact and everything else is working fine. Everything shorted out got the car back in one week.

Now here comes the Shocker Moment!!!Iin next few days my sister noticed that the smooth gearbox of Polo is gone. Its getting jammed at in 2nd gear slot and takes qute a effort to put the car in 2nd. Other slots are also a bit jerky. I asked my brother to check and he also confirmed me the same.

Took the car to ASS and told them about the issue. SA informed me that this is because of the clutch. We have to replace it ASAP. He said, this is normal to change clutch of a polo diesel in 45000 kms. Seriously!!! I don't think so.

Took the car back and asked my sister not to drive it like a petrol car so not to upshift/downshift at high rpms. She ensured me that she will take care of that. Few weeks after this when i asked my sister on update, she informed me that now there is no jerk or jam and she is able to put the car gear easily.

I am still in doubt, how can a clutch will get damaged which was running fine till 30000kms and in next 5000 kms and 6 months later its getting jammed that too in normal everyday use.

May be clutch pates are worn out so they can replace that, but whole clutch unit? Which they informed will cost me roughly 40k to 45K.

[ajmat]

Originally Posted by Raja Rakesh

I bought my Polo 1.2 TDI from Apple Auto Whitefield, Bangalore around January 2013.


Second Service:

1. there was noise coming from brake pedal whenever it is pressed.

3. some short of noise was coming from front left side suspension whenever the car go over bad patch of road but was not getting any sound while taking speed humps.

My findings:
1. Brake pedal noise is still there. SA and ASS senior Technician told me that there is no noise coming out of brake pedal. It took me 30 minutes to make them understand where the source of noise is and then they accepted that............................

Took the car to ASS and told them about the issue. SA informed me that this is because of the clutch. We have to replace it ASAP. He said, this is normal to change clutch of a polo diesel in 45000 kms. Seriously!!! I don't think so.

Took the car back and asked my sister not to drive it like a petrol car so not to upshift/downshift at high rpms. She ensured me that she will take care of that. Few weeks after this when i asked my sister on update, she informed me that now there is no jerk or jam and she is able to put the car gear easily.

I am still in doubt, how can a clutch will get damaged which was running fine till 30000kms and in next 5000 kms and 6 months later its getting jammed that too in normal everyday use.

May be clutch pates are worn out so they can replace that, but whole clutch unit? Which they informed will cost me roughly 40k to 45K.

1: If you get a clunk noise when braking, your suspension control arms are shot, might be a case of replacing the bushes. Might sort the rattle out.

2: 45000km, diesel car in traffic is acceptable wear and tear for clutch

Go to VW Palace Cross. They know their stuff and give good service. Worth the distance!

[vinj14]

Originally Posted by bosporus

- With the absence of a scientific basis to such posts, in my mind, there are really just rants: they may be cathartic, and you may feel happy that you may be causing real damage to their business, but what this really is, is mob justice and a public lynching.

You have a very valid point here.

Originally Posted by akshay1234

Issues are certainly dealer specific, but its the companies responsibility to ensure a certain amount of compliance by the dealers.

Like I mentioned earlier. There will be a handful of good dealers (due to which some members are vehemently defending the group), but the majority seem to be bad.

I'm not complaining about the vehicle reliability (its a machine, things fail), I'm not complaining about the cost of parts. I'm complaining about the fact that the personnel are not trained well (stupid mistakes a made because protocol isn't followed), and that part availability is a huge issue (even for critical parts which sometimes leaves vehicles standing in the workshop parking for more than a month).

Akshay, I can completely sympathise with your situation and can understand how frustrating the whole process might have been. I have two yetis and one laura at home and it's been a largely trouble free ownership experience for me over the last 3 years.
But i've also seen the other side. I've recommended these cars to people and they've only cursed me a hundred times for it. I've seen the same SA's and managers who bent over backwards to help me, behave like crooks with other customers. I've seen too many cars with major faults and breakdowns within the first year of ownership. Bottomline, I would never refer a vag car to anyone, nor would I buy one myself (because of my personal anger towards VW after the dieselgate).

BUT!!! This is my personal opinion!!
I don't think my opinion or a bunch of stories are enough to pass a judgement on the whole VAG company. Mind you, the judgement is already passed in my mind (trust me, I truly hate them). But I think its quite foolhardy and rash to publicly try to declare them as incompetent or inefficient without any reliable or valid evidence. Anecdotal evidence is still evidence but its hardly ever given any weightage. It's like hating paracetamol because it never cures your headaches and then going ahead and declaring all allopathic medicines as useless.
I remember once you very correctly pointed out to some BHPian that his claims of his jetta being quick or quicker than an octavia were invalid because of different driving conditions, wrong comparison data etc etc. Obviously you were able to see that his timings couldn't be generalised and comparing it with someone else's timing would be invalid (unless done in the right settings). Knowing that you have that astute mind i was befuddled by the way the you wrote and titled this thread. The thread was probably written out of frustration and wrongly titled. But if you still think you have all the scientific data to back your claim about 'miserable after sales of VAG' please post the statistics and convince all of us.

Even a poll in team-bhp to actually see the how many are happy or unhappy with their after sales could have brought out some valid data. Maybe that's the next step if the mods see fit.

It's weird. I share your personal opinion. But I disagree with how you found that to be enough to publicly declare the after sales of VAG as incompetent.

[Manoj2268]

I would squarely place the blame on the mechanics who are unable to diagnose the issue. The service centers, instead of diagnosing the root cause(via scanners and experience), simply insist on parts replacement, which anyone with access to tools and a FSM(factory service manual) can do. The mentality of the after-sales industry, that is throwing parts at the problem until it disappears, is causing the heartburn to the car owners.


I have never owned a VW car till date however I have accompanied my friends to the service stations where we are asked to sit and wait. If only the SA's acknowledge the problems and the mechanics correctly diagnose them, we would not be throwing brickbats at VW.

[Akshay1234]

Originally Posted by vinj14

Akshay, I can completely sympathise with your situation and can understand how frustrating the whole process might have been. I have two yetis and one laura at home and it's been a largely trouble free ownership experience for me over the last 3 years.
But i've also seen the other side. I've recommended these cars to people and they've only cursed me a hundred times for it. I've seen the same SA's and managers who bent over backwards to help me, behave like crooks with other customers. I've seen too many cars with major faults and breakdowns within the first year of ownership. Bottomline, I would never refer a vag car to anyone, nor would I buy one myself (because of my personal anger towards VW after the dieselgate).

BUT!!! This is my personal opinion!!
I don't think my opinion or a bunch of stories are enough to pass a judgement on the whole VAG company. Mind you, the judgement is already passed in my mind (trust me, I truly hate them). But I think its quite foolhardy and rash to publicly try to declare them as incompetent or inefficient without any reliable or valid evidence. Anecdotal evidence is still evidence but its hardly ever given any weightage. It's like hating paracetamol because it never cures your headaches and then going ahead and declaring all allopathic medicines as useless.
I remember once you very correctly pointed out to some BHPian that his claims of his jetta being quick or quicker than an octavia were invalid because of different driving conditions, wrong comparison data etc etc. Obviously you were able to see that his timings couldn't be generalised and comparing it with someone else's timing would be invalid (unless done in the right settings). Knowing that you have that astute mind i was befuddled by the way the you wrote and titled this thread. The thread was probably written out of frustration and wrongly titled. But if you still think you have all the scientific data to back your claim about 'miserable after sales of VAG' please post the statistics and convince all of us.

Even a poll in team-bhp to actually see the how many are happy or unhappy with their after sales could have brought out some valid data. Maybe that's the next step if the mods see fit.

It's weird. I share your personal opinion. But I disagree with how you found that to be enough to publicly declare the after sales of VAG as incompetent.

Hey buddy, thanks for your post.

Oh trust me, in the past year even I've had my fair share of complaints (especially from member Lamborghini because I recommended the Laura L&K to him) from people whom I've referred VAG cars too. I've just had to eat my words and apologise for recommending the vehicles to them.

I'm glad you remember my post where I advised a member to bring some factual data by doing a test side by side with an Octavia in similar conditions. I agree there is nothing like scientific data to back up a claim.

But its a bit easier to get the factual data in what is mentioned above i.e Jetta vs Octavia 0-100, that involves just getting 2 cars in potentially similar conditions and using the same equipment to measure it.

With this, getting scientific data to prove my point will be extremely difficult. I cannot be expected to go about hiring a company like Neilsen or similar to do a survey of VAG owners and how satisfied they are. All I can provide is my personal experiences, experiences of trusted friends and also a large amount of people on this forum (which I'm sure counts for something). If my post or decision was based on hearsay there would be a lot more stories or experiences out there.

I think the comparison to paracetamol and all allopathic medicines is a bit unfair in this case. Its not that only I've had one bad experience with one Skoda vehicle in one centre and based on that I'm saying all VAG brands service is bad in India.

There are a few people who are happy with it, and have had acceptable experiences. But the majority of people I know and going by posts on the forum are not. That has to be worth something!

Also I have explicitly mentioned that my main complain is with the level of training of the staff, and the non availability of parts. I'm sure most will not disagree with this.

I'm not trying to malign the brand, but its high time someone took notice.

I have not made a judgement or a decision on behalf of team bhp. I am not forcing my views down anyones throat. I have said what I need to say in this case, and everyone here is free to make their own judgement.

Maybe I will start gathering data to prove my point, and start posting it here. Possibly we should start a poll here too, I think I will request the mods to add one here after coming up with the options.

And the fact that you share my views (and my judgement), amongst many others on the forum (which is full of first hand information which I think is the most accurate) must mean there lies some truth in the title.

Till possibly even a year ago, I had the following thoughts on VAG (Skoda in my case) service -

1) It won't happen to me syndrome
2) There are some bad dealers who mess things up
3) Make friends with the staff, it will help
4) Have higher up contacts i.e regional manager of Skoda, etc

And guess what, none of these make a difference when the company (or the group in this case since their India operations overlap a lot) doesn't do anything to help.

[AppyS]

Trying not to ruin my morning after the wonderful discovery that, Volkswagen Apple Auto whitefield has service people who pride themselves on removing your stuff from the car, aka stealing. Last service it was a memory card, this time it is the car mobile charger and the mobile holder. FMs with VWs please make sure to remove everything from the car esp if you are luckily visiting VW apple auto Whitefield. "Wir Stehlen Auto" is their new tagline.

[Mr.Hunt]

Originally Posted by AppyS

Trying not to ruin my morning after the wonderful discovery that, Volkswagen Apple Auto whitefield has service people who pride themselves on removing your stuff from the car, aka stealing. Last service it was a memory card, this time it is the car mobile charger and the mobile holder. FMs with VWs please make sure to remove everything from the car esp if you are luckily visiting VW apple auto Whitefield. "Wir Stehlen Auto" is their new tagline.

I was about to book a service appointment with VW Whitefield for my Polo 1.2P Highline for 5 Dec. but got a reply that earliest available slot is on 10 Dec. Due to travel plans, I didn't make the appointment and came here to do some reading on service.
After reading this thread and especially the last reply by AppyS, I am glad I didn't make that appointment and VW Palace Cross is where I am going to go. I will update the experience here. This is going to be 2nd year service for my car. It was supposed to be done in September but car was not driven much (just 12K on odo now) so I delayed it.
I have some questions though. Is it OK to delay the service by some months if car is fine & not driven much? Will it affect the 4 year warranty I have on the car? My reason for initially selecting VW Whitefield was that car was bought from there and also the extended warranty was purchased from there.

[ajmat]

Originally Posted by Mr.Hunt

I have some questions though. Is it OK to delay the service by some months if car is fine & not driven much? Will it affect the 4 year warranty I have on the car? My reason for initially selecting VW Whitefield was that car was bought from there and also the extended warranty was purchased from there.

No, keep to the milaege or time which ever happens earlier. It will affect any warranty claim. VW Palace Cross will be happy to service the car

[5kmiles]

Originally Posted by arunphilip

Its not a problem of an occasional lemon here, or a dodgy service centre there. The problem is endemic. Thank you Akshay.

Exactly. When cost of establishing dealership is probably northward of 20Cr with plenty of black money involved due to real estate play, only people who can afford this are politicians, criminals, or business persons with some serious black money sources (public officials etc.). Each of these categories screws up for obvious reasons: politicians know nothing else (Sorry for generalization) and others don't know what service or ethics are. Abetted by companies like VW who have no alternatives for dealerships, they try to make merry on diminishing returns that these dealerships generate (vis-a-vis other legal and illegal businesses)