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15th January 2018, 22:21 | #16 |
BHPian | Re: TAFE Access, Chennai: I want agreed deal on paper, but dealer refuses If a customer appears to be a potential liability for it, every business has the full right to back off and reject the proposal before any money exchanges hands. As long as no money is exchanged and no terms are committed, everything that has happened is pure sales talk. At such stage, one has to just move on to another dealer. But even there, negotiations and deals should be made smartly. Deals can be made with some form of reproducible evidence (recorded calls, whatsapp conversations, signed and stamped quotations, partial payments with unconditional refunds etc.,.). But asking to sign this kind of watertight contracts raises too many eyebrows . I don't see anything much wrong from the dealer side. Infact, if I were to deal with a customer who pushes such terms, I would rather loose that business than to bring on unnecessary head ache. As a customer, I myself have bought a new car recently and had to forgive a lot of small and big goof ups from dealer side. I have a small dent right on the bonnet that passed through dealer PDI, which I noticed in my PDI. But then, I didn't go nuts over it. Dealer acknowledged it and agreed to repaint it later and provided me some cash discount. All these were through soft negotiations. It doesn't make sense going for the neck of the other party while negotiating. Everybody should have some breathing space, only then can deals conclude meaningfully. Last edited by deetee : 15th January 2018 at 22:25. Reason: correction of typos |
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15th January 2018, 22:44 | #17 |
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| Re: TAFE Access, Chennai: I want agreed deal on paper, but dealer refuses Unlike a real estate transaction, it is quite difficult to deal in such a formal/legal manner with car dealerships. A lot depends on trust and sometimes it needs to be built. Unless you have heard about negative experiences or if you feel uncomfortable dealing with folks at this dealership, you may not need to have such a formal approach. Talk to them about your non-negotiable points (maybe price & discounts, colour, variant) and get them to agree verbally and follow it up with a summary on email to get them to acknowledge. You may need to clarify about your PDI prior to registration, some dealers may not agree to that. If you feel uncomfortable dealing with these guys, talk to one or two other dealerships as well. *Unless you are being offered a discount on a prior year manufactured car, make sure you check the VIN as part of your PDI prior to registration, will save you from headaches later. Last edited by NPV : 15th January 2018 at 22:49. |
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15th January 2018, 22:54 | #18 |
Senior - BHPian | Re: TAFE Access, Chennai: I want agreed deal on paper, but dealer refuses Usually all the things the dealer offers is given in writing on paper and given with the brochure. That's been my experience. I also had a list of accessories that I wanted fitted and showed them to the sales person and he made out a bill and I paid out, but when I went home did check with the website the dealer quote was on the higher side almost ₹ 3.5k approx and I escalated it with the dealer first and they were silent and I escalated with Honda India and the dealer promptly returned the extra cash to my bank a/c. I agree that you have keep all the things that pervade at the sales closing stage; short of spooking the sales person/dealer. More over Honda India sent me a survey to fill out regards sales experience and they diligently followed it up and called me and asked why were the scores 9 and not a 10 and where they could improve upon and I was candid with them. That's the sort of commitment that builds trust. |
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15th January 2018, 23:11 | #19 |
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| Re: TAFE Access, Chennai: I want agreed deal on paper, but dealer refuses As far as I know, a dealership makes actual money in service & spare parts division compared to sales. And for a car that is selling reasonably well, no dealership will accept to this list of conditions. I can understand you want to make sure everything goes well but this is a little over the top. You can perform a PDI before sending the car for registration but once the car is registered in your name, I am not sure if you can actually reject it. The list of accessories will be provided when your car booking is done and you should be able to check them while taking the delivery. The general rule followed by dealerships is to install the accessories in parallel to the registration process or after the registration is complete. And for the registration to happen, you need to release the funds (including the loan). There may be some cases where some things might have gone wrong. It doesn't mean it will happen to you as well. Try to be positive and hope you successfully get delivery of the vehicle from this or a different dealership. |
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15th January 2018, 23:18 | #20 |
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| Wow, that seems like some real contract. I recently purchased a car with Honda dealer and got quite a good deal. It was a win win situation where I got everything what I wanted and they got what they wanted. But honestly speaking the terms and conditions shared here may become defacto negotiation T&C by some readers and members like a PDI document. Wait and watch guys. |
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16th January 2018, 00:49 | #21 | |||||||||||||||||||
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| Re: TAFE Access, Chennai: I want agreed deal on paper, but dealer refuses Quote:
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All I am asking is to support me as a customer. I pay all the money that the dealer asks for and what happens if my car is delivered to an influential person like a politician, goon or police. I will be a sitting duck. If a politician wants a car ASAP, let him speak to Guenter Butschek and get one on the double. There is a thread in TBHP where a BHPian's Cruze was handed over to an influential person. Quote:
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Whatever I promise verbally, will be documented and the contract would be signed by both parties and then the work starts in IT industry. I won't promise something that I cant stand by. That's me at least. Quote:
The dealers aren't so customer friendly either. Ask the BHPian who was delivered a repainted compass, a fake Skoda Limited Edition and the EcoSport that was damaged in the workshop. I haven't forgotten the Stolen VW Jetta fiasco either. In the above scenarios, without escalation, please tell me, which of the dealers offered the best sweetener? None as far as I know. Dealers finally say this is all we can do. Take it or leave it. Why should a customer face such treatment for no fault of his? I am ready to accept a repainted Nexon, if I am given a cash discount of 40K or let's say all periodic services are free from the dealer's side. I need not pay a rupee for any normal regular periodic service for four years. I honestly do not want dealers to be talking 5K accessories is the best we can do. Take it or leave it. Quote:
Analogy: I pay 500/- for a tomato soup in a 5 star hotel and find a fly in it. How would I feel if the restaurant chef or manager comes and tells me, "Sir it's just one fly. How much soup can it drink?" When I pay 500/-, what the hotel asks, am I not within my rights to ask for a perfect product? Agreed. But, if it's bank policy to take four days of processing, as a customer how should I handle it. It is like running inside a train. Even if taken from dealer, the loan executive mentions three-four days to process the loan. Anyway, he has an 11K advance and also ~ 1,10,000 as an old car exchange. This should say that I am making a deal and finance is under process. Quote:
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Most banks take 3-4 days to release the payment after sharing the VIN number. Please tell me, as a customer, what should I do to speed up the disbursement. The dealership cannot expect that whoever buys a car would have the on-road price as disposable cash. In a dealership, 98+ % of sales is through loans only. They have to wait a reasonable 3-4 days. I am not telling them to wait a month. Secondly they have the old car money (1.1 lacs) and also 11K booking amount. I have no trust in Indians for verbal commitments. If something is said, put it on paper. Quote:
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I believe its the dealers responsibility to deliver the promised car in factory condition to me. If damaged, I will take the damaged car with a real sweetener and not 5K accessories. Quote:
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Last edited by Aditya : 16th January 2018 at 20:40. Reason: Typos | |||||||||||||||||||
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16th January 2018, 01:12 | #22 |
Senior - BHPian Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Chennai
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| Re: TAFE Access, Chennai: I want agreed deal on paper, but dealer refuses Guys, I drafted the points, after reading TBHP threads and incidents faced by various people. People share their experience to warn others of malpractices. further to my mail, Please find reasons below and please suggest how to overcome or correct the same. 1) No one takes cerdit card charges, even vegetable vendor, but I am charged 2.5% . Why? Anyway, I agreed to pay through instruments like DD or cheque or book through website. 2) Some XUV and Brezza customers have mentioned that the sales executive entered the booking into the system only couple of days after the payment. This pushes my wait list up and also increases my delivery time. This is why i ask for the CRM reference number immediately. 3) Dealer quoted 36K insurance and open shopping on bankbazaar and directly reaching out the provider (Tata AIG Motor), got me a quote of 23K for the same bumper to bumper. If i higgle haggle with the call centre folks and send them a counter quote, I am sure they would come down to 20 or 21K. Why should I pay 16K extra to the dealer unnecassarily. 4) Ask the plight of the BHPian who booked a Cruze and only to find his preferred variant being delivered to an influential person, who was behind the waitlist que. By asking the VIN, i can be assured that I would get the car allocated at the factory and it wont go to any other influential person. As i have ranted earlier, If an influential person needs a nexon, let him call Guenter Butschek and get it on the double. 5) & 6) Enough has been said on TBHP about PDI and its almost like a rule to do a PDI before taking delivery. I insist this so as to prevent the dealer from pulling a fast one and try to sell me a 2017 VIN as a 2018 Vin. I insist on a 2018 VIN as there arent any discounts on Nexon. As an analogy, I cant marry a girl by looking at her name or photo. I need to look at her in person, before i tie the knot. 7) Ask the plight of the BHPian who paid 20+ lacs for his compass only to be sold a repainted one. Where was dealer ethics here? 8) Accessories are offered at a 12% discount to me. If any other nexon customer is ready to pay MRP for the accessory, there is a probablity it would be sold to him, as dealer makes more money. My interest isnt safeguarded here. On another note, they mentioned fitting labout charges and GST extra. This is a very convnient way to make some more money. I believe in the all inclusive price. 9) People in india are very reluctant to return hard cash. They always want it to be adjusted against some service or vouchers etc. Since HDFC and other banks pay the full amount directly, to the dealer, I do not have control. This is why i explicitly mention to adjust the advance and old car resale against accessories. 10) My financial calculations / loan calculations are based on assuming 1.1 lacs for my old car, if they take it for 70 or 50K at a later stage, It will pinch my pocket. I am already buying 1.7 lacs of orignal accessories and 30K worth non geniune accessories from the market like TPMS, CR70 sunfilm, polishing/waxing/underbody treatment etc. Another 30K - 40K from my pocket would pinch me greatly. Please tell me how to handle the above scenarios, if the trust is broken and the verbal commitment is not honored. If honored verbally, I will write an excellent thread on TBHP and appreciate them. I am ready to buy on verbal trust, if someone can give me an assurance that dealer wont cheat and if he cheats customer care / tata / courts would support me in-toto. Last edited by scopriobharath : 16th January 2018 at 01:33. |
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16th January 2018, 07:49 | #23 |
Senior - BHPian | Re: TAFE Access, Chennai: I want agreed deal on paper, but dealer refuses Well, you have every right to be careful at your end and you have to get most of conditions in writing , but your terms and conditions don't have to be so water tight. Observe the body language of your sales advisor when he is making commitments, and if you sense a lack of seriousness, you should walk away. In any case , I somehow get a sense that things won't work out well for you at this dealership, and, I think you should restart negotiations at a different dealership. Last edited by F150 : 16th January 2018 at 07:50. |
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16th January 2018, 08:34 | #24 | |||||||||||
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| Re: TAFE Access, Chennai: I want agreed deal on paper, but dealer refuses If I have to think on neutral grounds Quote:
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Mod Note : Please avoid responding within quoted post. It becomes difficult to maintain flow of responses by other members Last edited by ampere : 16th January 2018 at 09:10. Reason: Fixed in quote responses | |||||||||||
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16th January 2018, 09:40 | #25 | |
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| Re: TAFE Access, Chennai: I want agreed deal on paper, but dealer refuses Quote:
No offence meant, but to someone in the dealership world so much in black and white is usually a red flag. It is almost like someone willing to go for their first date, only to see the draft of a pre nuptial agreement as a prerequisite for the date. While I see the merits of documenting these topics, please also try to consider whom you are dealing with. Also, at the end of the day you may need to consider what value this document (even if signed or approved via email) would hold in any court; if the matter comes to that stage. In other words, where would you intend to use it? Last edited by selfdrive : 16th January 2018 at 09:42. | |
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16th January 2018, 09:43 | #26 |
BHPian | Re: TAFE Access, Chennai: I want agreed deal on paper, but dealer refuses
I am surprised that this august forum members found your terms & conditions rigid, despite reading multiple accounts of cheating by dealers and in some cases manufacturers themselves. I laud your efforts to safeguard your interests as a customer. I work in IT service industry and I know how customer words contracts (SOW) carefully since they pump funds to projects per my employer's pricing chart, fair industry practice. I will be very glad if more forum members follow this precedent of seeking written assurances at each checkpoint of purchase process. I have two experiences to share : Back in 2012, I bought Honda Brio. Overall booking experience was smooth and PDI (pre accessory fitting) was satisfactory. I had given clear list of accessories to be fitted over email/SMS and oral instructions (multiple times), yet on the delivery day I found car to be fitted with car seat covers which was not part of the list. Since I had part payment due on delivery day, they had included car seat price in the final bill. I instructed them to remove the seat covers and deduct applicable amount from final bill. However, dealership initially argued it was fitted per my requirements, I conveniently opened mailbox to show them my preferred list from mails sent earlier. They began convincing me with benefits of seat covers and when I failed to budge, the sales guy pitched that cover is useless if removed after fitting (i don't buy that argument), I said I will take it if it is sold to me at 1/3rd of cost printed on bill and he finally agreed after much deliberation. Fast forward, 2016 Feb and I was looking for my second car and zeroed in on new Figo T+ Diesel, one dealer had this variant with my choice of color but was 2015 Dec VIN. After much push, I got an excellent deal and one of agreed item was extended warranty to be included part of it. However dealer tried to act sly by saying he never promised me that. Since I had entire deal written agreed over a email chain, I could easily hammer his head and make him remember his commitments. Ext. warranty document landed at my doorstep within few days. I am not sure if you would like to get your terms on a stamp paper but written communication helps. More power to you! Last edited by Thilak29 : 16th January 2018 at 10:05. |
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16th January 2018, 10:02 | #27 |
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| Re: TAFE Access, Chennai: I want agreed deal on paper, but dealer refuses I feel you are coming from the right place but the approach may be wrong. If you have another dealer willing to work with your conditions, just go ahead. Not all dealers approach to business the same way. If you have only one dealer, remember this is a business deal. It should be a win-win for the dealer and you. Use accessories, insurance etc, as points to negotiate. Ex. If they are willing to give you the CRM# or VIN# you will buy the accessories, else you will not buy it from them. etc. I agree that you need the discount etc, to be documented. The re-paint part is harsh, the only way to avoid this is buying a car in stock, not sure if its possible with Nexon. |
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16th January 2018, 10:19 | #28 |
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| Re: TAFE Access, Chennai: I want agreed deal on paper, but dealer refuses Honestly Im amazed at people siding with the dealership here. when you book a car, their booking forms have terms and conditions that are one sided, including "price on delivery will be applicable". Ive not seen anyone question this despite the fact that under contract law, this clause is illegal. The moment there is an offer and acceptance, the contract is valid and binding, and this clause creates whats called a "contingent contract". IMHO the OP is well justified in what he planned to do. Its his hard earned money and he has every right to protect it by all legal means possible. As a lawyer, I can tell you that if he got the dealership to acknowledge all that he was asking for, and then the dealer reneged on his commitment, the customer would have a very strong case in the consumer forum. Given how most car dealers are "paragons of virtue", basing such a large ticket item on trust is not the wisest thing to do IMHO. every time Ive bought a car, Ive got all commercial items committed on paper with the dealer stamp and if the dealer was unwilling then I walk away. Why would you trust a dealer who is not even willing to stand by his own word? you are the one putting your money down, not the dealer, so you have every right to get EXACTLY what you are paying for, period. |
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16th January 2018, 10:19 | #29 |
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| Re: TAFE Access, Chennai: I want agreed deal on paper, but dealer refuses While I understand that written documentation gives clear leverage, too much insistence on having everything written down may hurt the mutual trust which might cause a long-term damage. This incident reminds me of my RC 390 purchase. I was 25 year old then and had gone with friends to book the bike on launch day and paid booking amount even when display bike was a week away. I then waited for a month for delivery and as luck would have it, I could either take delivery on Saturday (declined due to auspicious reasons ) or couple of weeks later due to my travel commitments. I talked to dealer and he agreed to deliver on Sunday. Now Sunday morning, I call up the dealer to inform I am coming and he drops the bomb that he will deliver bike only on 100% payment. This wasn't possible now since it was Sunday and I didn't have so much cash at hand. I was heartbroken. Still I told let me come to dealership and we'll see how it goes. I reached there with my parents and the dealer's body language suddenly changed. That's when I realised that all this while I was a 25 year old guy buying a bike worth over 2 lakh. Seeing my parents gave him the confidence and I was able to ride away making only around 75% payment with rest transferred on Monday. To summarise, I got the bike I desired on the day I wanted as per my convenience only because I could build trust. If I had gone for written commitments and watertight agreement, I guess dealer would have simply declined to deliver without payment and the bike would have gone to someone else since there was long waitlist. |
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16th January 2018, 12:21 | #30 | ||||||||||
Senior - BHPian | Re: TAFE Access, Chennai: I want agreed deal on paper, but dealer refuses I echo the general sentiments of the thread that while we should take all reasonable measures to safeguard our interested, I find many conditions not necessary and not contusive to build mutual trust and rapport. Adding few points from my side: Quote:
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The load is usually despatched from the factory when there are certain numbers of orders, so practically, it may not make a difference if the booking is entered in CRM on the very same day or next day (Unless you are really unlucky and your booking is moved to next load due to the current lot reaching threshold number) Quote:
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You can also do the same - get the car delivered, get it registered, drive it back to the dealer and get the accessories fitted. Quote:
But, it is our right to ask for a factory fresh piece and if you suspect that the car has been fixed at dealer end, reject it before the registration. That is why all of us should do a detailed PDI before the car goes for registration. On a side note, if we are talking about the same case of Jeep Compass, a brand new door was dispatched from the factory and was replaced at the ASS without any fuss. Quote:
But yes, I do agree that if the dealer offers an accessory, he should keep it reserved for you and I would personally trust building a rapport with the dealer \ accessory guy than a watertight written agreement for the same. But then, that is just me. You prefer an all-inclusive price, while dealer prefers a breakdown approach - cant really find fault with either, as long as both are clear on the expectations. If we do not want to get cheated out of our hard earned money, we need to be vigilant. Get the breakdown cost from the dealer and negotiate on that. Quote:
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--Anoop Last edited by SDP : 18th January 2018 at 09:45. Reason: Fixing broken quote tag | ||||||||||
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