[rahul_goyal]

Dear All,

This article is regarding my service experience with Hans Hyundai, Moti Nagar. This HASS misdiagnosed the issue and recommended an engine overhaul and turbo replacement and these words for a car owner, are a nightmare. It is like hearing from a doctor that they could not save the patient or like the patient is amputated for life. And one can still understand if the patient was in comma and died, but how would one feel if they go to a doctor for a hairline fracture and he says you are dying and if don't do this bypass surgery right now, the chances of survival will be negligible. Sorry for the long metaphor, but that's what exactly happened in my case. Read further to know the full experience. While I suffered through this horrible experience for more than 6 months (which obviously involved a lot of phone calls and emails to dealer as well as Hyundai), I will try to keep this post concise and will stick to relevant things.

Background
I own a Hyundai Xcent (2014) CRDI (which ironically, I bought from Hans Hyundai, they have combined facility showroom as well as A.S.S.) and till May, 2018 (55000 kms), the car gave me no trouble at all. I got my car serviced from HASS till about 37000 kms (service bills were going north of INR 7k, that too without diesel filter replacement). Hence, I started getting my car serviced a FNG. Engine oil change and filter replacement carried out timely as per the owner's manual. I had no issues in running of the car or the FE (18kmpl in city with AC).

It was around the month of May, 2018, when I started noticing that the acceleration was not smooth as it used to be. What I also noticed that at times on a cold start, the car would hesitate a little and throttle response was jerky (The moment you press throttle or lift your leg from throttle, one would feel a mild jerk). Interesting thing to note here was that the jerks could only be felt on a cold start and only until about first 5-6 kms. I did not feel any jerking post that mark or when the engine was already warm.

First reaction was to get the service done. So, I decided to got the vehicle serviced early this time (at about 7500 km, I usually get it done at around 8500-9500 kms). I even got the fuel filter change this time, just to be sure.

Unfortunately, things did not improve and now I was worried because I wasn't getting the smooth acceleration that I used to get.

Second step was to get the car scanned through FNG. They did not find any fault code and cleaned the EGR valve. Since, car was already running for a while, no jerks could be felt.

I kept using the car, but was't happy with the sluggish acceleration and cold start jerks. Earlier it used to happen only sometimes, but then it became consistent and I used to be in a foul mood every morning.

I decided to take my car to Hans Hyundai. This was my first service experience with them. Although, I purchased my car from them, I never got it serviced from them as this was far away from where I live. But the nearest H.A.S.S. (Rama Hyundai, Vasant Kunj) got shut, so I decided to take it Hans Hyundai.

Dropping Off the Car, Explaining the Issue and experience at Hans Hyundai
Day 1
I drove down to Hans Hyundai and was promptly attended. I explained the issue to the service advisor, who in turn asked the senior mechanic to take the test drive of the vehicle.

Senior mechanic took a short test drive (I accompanied him and explained the problem). After the test drive, the Senior Mechanic told the Service Advisor that the car has no issues. But since, I insisted they asked me to drop the car so they can take it for a drive next morning (to check issue at cold start) and provided an estimate of INR 2000/- just for diagnosis. I found the charges to be on the higher side, but I just wanted to get the car fixed so I agreed to the said amount.

Day 2
Next day, I got a call from the advisor informing that they have cleaned the EGR valve and the car is running much better. I asked if the issue has been completely resolved, to which he said that the issue is not completely gone. I insisted them to look into the issue and get to the root of it, he said he’ll check and get back.

Day 3
I got a call in the morning from the advisor and was told that an “engine compression test” needs to be done to ascertain the root cause and would cost another INR 1200-1500. Obviously, I was unhappy to hear this, as I was told that INR 2000 is for complete diagnostic of the car. However, I agreed but then the advisor said that we will have to open the head of the vehicle and certain things might break and I will have to bear the cost (I never expected this from an A.S.S.), I told him that you guys must be doing this day and night, so how can it break? He gave the typical reply that they do it day and night to know that it breaks and they don’t want it on their head. I had a little fight with him but gave my go ahead for engine compression test.

After they carried out the test, they called me and informed that the engine of the car has become weak and turbo too is not working properly. They recommended an engine overhaul and replacement of turbocharger at an estimated repair cost of INR 1.3 lakhs. I don’t think I ever felt more heart broken about my car ever.

Day 4
I decided to collect my car and get a second opinion from an FNG, but since I was busy, I asked one of my family members to get it. I paid INR 3299/- just for diagnosis.

Aftermath
I tried starting my car in the evening and it just refused to start. As I have explained earlier, my problem was very miniscule and even the senior mechanic reported no issue with car. However, things were very different now.
I managed to start the car after a very long ignition and the exhaust gave black thick smoke (and a weird smell) and the car wasn’t just jerking, it was literally shaking (like how an old tractor would). I was so upset because I had no such issues with the car when I dropped it off, so it was evident that the car was mishandled.

Actual repair
I decided to get hold of things and gave my car to my trusted FNG, who advised to get the injector cleaned from Mori Gate (I did not go personally because of work commitment so cannot give details). After cleaning the injectors, the car became butter smooth to drive, but there was still some smoke coming from the exhaust on startup, so I took my car to Twins Car Care on Sohna Road.
I explained the issue to the senior mechanic there and he test drove the vehicle as well. They asked me to drop the vehicle so that they can look into the matter. I got a call from the advisor next day, saying that the Catalytic Converter of the car was completely choked because of soot deposit and has to be cleaned.
Post that cleaning, there was no smoke from the car and the throttle response became much better. The car was redlining to 4500-5000 RPM with no issues. Earlier the throttle response was slow and the car would not go high on RPM. They also recommended me to get the DPF cleaning, but I deferred the idea till next service. I will share my experience of the same.
Since these repairs, I have done about 5000 kms (including a 750 kms to and fro drive to Mukteshwar). There are no issues with the car now. I am thankful to Team-BHP, as I read a lot of articles during this time on injector cleaning and decarbonizing the engine. I am not an expert, but the forum does help you a lot in understanding how mechanicals of the car work, their common problems and most importantly how to deal with them.

Complaint to Hyundai India
I wrote several emails and tried calling Hyundai India call center as well, but nothing really worked ever. The best Hyundai call center could do was to patch me on a call with Hans Hyundai personnel who would just tell me that they stand by their recommendation and the same cannot be compared to the repairs performed in non-H.A.S.S. (I wrote several emails to Hans Hyundai as well and they even offered to adjust the amount I paid in next service, but I made it clear that I would never get my car to an A.S.S. who misdiagnose and mishandle the customer’s vehicle)

I finally took Twitter to file my complaint and Hyundai took charge. They asked me to go to Dee Emm Hyundai in Gurgaon where another engine compression test was carried out (at Hyundai’s expense this time).
All the personnel at Dee Emm were very humble and polite. I was shown the results of both wet and dry testing. They told me that there is a slight deviation on the standard figures, but that is expected considering that the car has already run 60000 kms. In simple words, they told me that there appears to be no issue with the engine and the turbo. I knew that my car was running fine but hearing this from Hyundai A.S.S. made me very happy.

I wrote an email to Hyundai giving feedback to my experience of Dee Emm Hyundai. I also mentioned that A.S.S. like Hans Hyundai are only damaging Hyundai India’s reputation, because a misguided (unhappy) customer will not raise a finger on the A.S.S., but on Hyundai as a brand.

I was told my Hyundai that Hans Hyundai will be penalized and the amount paid by me (INR 3299) will be refunded. I collected my refund from Hans Hyundai and the personnel writing me emails denying my claim was sorry for the inconvenience caused.
I am just sharing my experience, so that innocent customer who follow the advice of A.S.S. are not cheated by the likes of Hans Hyundai. I have no intention to defame Hans Hyundai. The entire experience and views are personal in nature.

Drive safe and stay cautious.!

[Nalin1]

It was a clear cut case of a couple of minor issues which Hans Hyundai identified as a golden opportunity to fleece you with a big bill!

A lesson for all of us to remember always. Whenever ASC or even an FNG suggests any major work, never ever fall for it immediately!. It almost always is rubbish!

Looking at the issues described by you, was adulterated fuel the culprit?

[drmohitg]

Originally Posted by rahul_goyal

This HASS misdiagnosed the issue and recommended an engine overhaul and turbo replacement and these words for a car owner, are a nightmare. It is like hearing from a doctor that they could not save the patient or like the patient is amputated for life. And one can still understand if the patient was in comma and died, but how would one feel if they go to a doctor for a hairline fracture and he says you are dying and if don't do this bypass surgery right now, the chances of survival will be negligible. Sorry for the long metaphor, but that's what exactly happened in my case.

I have nothing to contribute to your thread but I am sorry to say that I found your so called metaphor extremely distasteful and full of bias and judgement against my profession, specially given the current ordeal my profession is going through. You literally have compared a cheating after sales service unit of a car maker to a Doctor's profession, by default indicating that they are equals in terms of ethics. I sincerely hope you are never advised a bypass procedure for a hairline fracture that you have already diagnosed correctly.

[rahul_goyal]

Originally Posted by Nalin1

Looking at the issues described by you, was adulterated fuel the culprit?

It could be. I got the diesel filter changed before taking it to Hans Hyundai but it did not help. So its possible that the injectors were choked due to adultrated fuel.

I have changed my bunker and now I also try to fuel up as soon as I reach quarter tank.

Originally Posted by drmohitg

I have nothing to contribute to your thread but I am sorry to say that I found your so called metaphor extremely distasteful and full of bias and judgement against my profession, specially given the current ordeal my profession is going through. You literally have compared a cheating after sales service unit of a car maker to a Doctor's profession, by default indicating that they are equals in terms of ethics. I sincerely hope you are never advised a bypass procedure for a hairline fracture that you have already diagnosed correctly.

Sir, I meant no offence to you or the profession. I, being a professional myself have huge respect towards other professions and it is needless to say that doctor is the one of the most noble profession and infact doctors are considered as Gods by many people.

Through this metaphor, I was just trying to portray that the level of faith that a customer has in an A.S.S is equivalent to that of a patient in his doctor.

However, while there are laws protecting a patient from medical negligence of doctors (Section 304A of the Indian Penal Code), there are unfortunately no stringent enough laws for an unethical A.S.S.

Yes, one can go to a consumer court for deficiency of service, but the number of people going that route are very less.

Originally Posted by rahul_goyal

Actual repair

I paid INR 10000/- for injector cleaning and INR 4000/- for cleaning of catalytic converter.

[PraNeel]

Moral of the story:

Use ASS for regular service and get the expensive jobs done at FNG by procuring genuine spares yourself. This will ensure ASS doesn't dupes you and you can put your weight being a regular customer.
Always take two - three opinions when a major work is being suggested either by A.S.S. or FNG.
Never give permission to open engine head and that too when the ASS says things might break in the process.
Use fuel additives periodically for diesel vehicles and tank up from reputed bunks only.
Don't leave your car. Always get these diagnosis done in your presence and don't proceed if you don't find it logical or your gut feeling says otherwise.

[tharian]

Glad it worked out all fine for you.

Something which I would recommend being a diesel car owner myself, is to use injector cleaner and additives like mentioned by a member, at least once in 3-4 tankfulls. Injector cleaner probably every 10k kms or after the annual service.

The problem with diesels is the soot buildup everywhere and associated issues as the engine gets older which happens mainly due to low revs driving always. Its good to rev the engine once a while in gear to get the system clear of soot. It keeps the exhaust system clear and avoids choking. Unlike petrol, a diesel needs some extra attention to keep it ticking.

[rahul_goyal]

Originally Posted by tharian

Glad it worked out all fine for you.
Something which I would recommend being a diesel car owner myself, is to use injector cleaner and additives like mentioned by a member, at least once in 3-4 tankfulls. Injector cleaner probably every 10k kms or after the annual service.

Which diesel additives do you use for injector cleaning?
Twins car care added a diesel additive (Moly) for injector cleaning. And I searched on the forum a lot about additives, there are divided opinion on using diesel additives on crdi engine.

Also, the injector cleaner that you recommend at 5-10k interval, is that something I can do myself? Which product do you use?

The problem with diesels is the soot buildup everywhere and associated issues as the engine gets older which happens mainly due to low revs driving always. Its good to rev the engine once a while in gear to get the system clear of soot. It keeps the exhaust system clear and avoids choking. Unlike petrol, a diesel needs some extra attention to keep it ticking.

I'm a sedate driver and I hardly ever go past 2200 rpm. That's how I drove my car for 60000 kms, but after facing this issue and reading up on the forum about soot deposit, I have changed my driving habits. Now, I try to keep consistent 2500-3000 rpm on an open stretch, whenever I find one.

I will also get the DPF cleaned in the next service from Twins Car and will share my experience.

[fiat_tarun]

Originally Posted by rahul_goyal

...

I will also get the DPF cleaned in the next service from Twins Car and will share my experience.

Are you sure your car has a DPF (Diesel Particulate Filter)? This is fitted on diesel cars only for Euro/BS 5 emission norms and beyond.

[tharian]

Originally Posted by rahul_goyal

Which diesel additives do you use for injector cleaning?
Twins car care added a diesel additive (Moly) for injector cleaning. And I searched on the forum a lot about additives, there are divided opinion on using diesel additives on crdi engine.

Also, the injector cleaner that you recommend at 5-10k interval, is that something I can do myself? Which product do you use?



I'm a sedate driver and I hardly ever go past 2200 rpm. That's how I drove my car for 60000 kms, but after facing this issue and reading up on the forum about soot deposit, I have changed my driving habits. Now, I try to keep consistent 2500-3000 rpm on an open stretch, whenever I find one.

I will also get the DPF cleaned in the next service from Twins Car and will share my experience.

I use Cetane-X along with a full tank of diesel. Now they come in 300ml bottles and I guess that is for a tankful. You can order them through Instagram. You can search for 'Proctanefuel' and chat with them to order. There are others like STP and Abro that are available on Amazon which I didn't find too effective.

Fuel injector cleaner fluid is added again to a tankful of diesel. The one I used were STP and Abro diesel injector cleaner, available on Amazon.

As for the driving habits, not necessary to drive at high rpms when an open stretch is available always. Revving through the gears upto 3-4k rpms once a while will do the trick too.

I doubt if your car has a DPF too.

[rahul_goyal]

Originally Posted by fiat_tarun

Are you sure your car has a DPF (Diesel Particulate Filter)? This is fitted on diesel cars only for Euro/BS 5 emission norms and beyond.

I had no idea what a DPF is until Twins Cars mentioned it.

I did a lot research on the forum and also checked the service manual, but could not find anything thing concrete which confirms that Xcent has DPF equipped.

Twins cars does a lot of high end cars, so it is a possibility that they just said it without really looking into the car. They mentioned that they use some special liquid to clean the DPF on all high end cars.

I will get a confirmation on this in my next visit.

[Jaguar]

Originally Posted by fiat_tarun

Are you sure your car has a DPF (Diesel Particulate Filter)? This is fitted on diesel cars only for Euro/BS 5 emission norms and beyond.

When I had bought the Verna in 2014, the manual mentioned different engine oil specs for the cars with and without DPF. I asked the service center about the same and was met with blank stares. Some online research and talking to knowledgeable folks later, I got to know that the India spec Verna didn't come with DPF. Not sure about the current gen but since OPs Xcent is also of the same time frame of my car, I'd confidently say it doesn't have a DPF.

[rahul_goyal]

Originally Posted by tharian

I use Cetane-X along with a full tank of diesel. Now they come in 300ml bottles and I guess that is for a tankful. You can order them through Instagram. You can search for 'Proctanefuel' and chat with them to order. There are others like STP and Abro that are available on Amazon which I didn't find too effective.

This is not for cleaning the fuel injector? So what does this do exactly?

[tharian]

Originally Posted by rahul_goyal

This is not for cleaning the fuel injector? So what does this do exactly?

If you are referring to CetaneX, it is a fuel additive.

https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/techn...thread-64.html (The Fuel Additives Thread)

[Ayson]

I am surprised to hear that a 2014 Xcent has EGR and DPF. Can someone confirm this?

[rahul_goyal]

Originally Posted by Jaguar

When I had bought the Verna in 2014, the manual mentioned different engine oil specs for the cars with and without DPF. I asked the service center about the same and was met with blank stares.

+1
I too asked a service advisor about DPF cleaning, when I went to Hans Hyundai for collecting the refund (I just wanted to check and confirm). He was all confused and then started telling me about diesel filter . I told him that its something to do with exhaust, he said we clean the exhaust system and muffler at INR 800/-.

Some online research and talking to knowledgeable folks later, I got to know that the India spec Verna didn't come with DPF. Not sure about the current gen but since OPs Xcent is also of the same time frame of my car, I'd confidently say it doesn't have a DPF.

I also checked with the manual (attaching a picture of reference). It also says, if equipped.

Originally Posted by Ayson

I am surprised to hear that a 2014 Xcent has EGR and DPF. Can someone confirm this?

DPF, as you can see I am not sure. As Jaguar said, in all likelihood, its not there in Indian version at least.

EGR is present (see attached pic of exhaust warranty from Owner's Manual)