[ontheway]

Originally Posted by ram87pune

Since we were given strict targets as to how many cars we can have in the float daily I.e. between the end of line and the point where the cars are green tagged to be sent to the stockyard, we would many a times commit some jugaad so as to keep this float under check.

Thanks Ram for putting out this information for all of us, which is surely hard to digest.

I think currently all the car manufacturers must be having best SOPs written for the production and delivery process. Its what is actually implemented which makes all the difference to the customer feedback and reviews.

For eg: Harrier has been mentioned umpteen times in this forum about having some niggles or the other. I believe TATA must also be having perfect SOP written all over its production plant, but actual implementation must be poor resulting in rolling out of niggle-prone cars. I am just giving a small example and not trying to hurt the feelings of proud Harrier owners or any other TATA car.

So I believe first step to save one from this bad luck is to AVOID the manufacturers who are famous for delivering cars full of defects or niggles.

When car manufacturers appoint smaller workforce to handle large volumes, and top management is okay with jugaads to keep the plant rolling, then even honest officers are forced to switch to unethical means to save their jobs and keep their bosses happy. These are the incentives which encourage and keep the wrong practices going on. This is true for every industry and company.

Everybody loves shortcuts and I feel sorry for consumers in India as they still are so much exposed to the whims and greed of the companies, with little protection from laws and government. When we have strong laws to protect consumer interest and stronger implementation, then only will these unethical practices reduce.

[avi_swift]

Originally Posted by ram87pune

This so called "virginity" we are talking about is at the dealer's end. But does anybody know what goes on with your beloved car before it reaches the dealer's stockyard?

Originally Posted by aghate

Thank you for the insight 'deehunk' and 'ram87pune'.

I too am of the opinion that points 1 to 5 mentioned by ram87pune is a process followed by all manufacturers. Like aghate, I also watched car manufacturing programs on TV. I think they were 'Supercars superbuild' and 'Megafactories' on NatGeo and Discovery. Although it was some time back, but I do remember being mentioned that all Ferraris were driven spiritedly around the track right outside their factory before delivery. Lamborghini does not have the luxury of their own track, so they test all their cars in the twisty hill roads nearby. Bugatti tests all the Veyron engines in the VW factory and also runs them for a certain time so that the engines are properly run-in Probably they continue the same practice for Chiron as well. And it was mentioned in probably all the episodes that any manufacturing flaw (like scratches,inconsistent paint etc), if caught will be sent back for repair. The car or even that part will not be discarded. As far as I can recollect, the majority of the manufacturers (if not all) also had the roller test and driving over tracks simulating rough road conditions.

Originally Posted by Latheesh

Few from my side:

* In an attempt to meet the high demand (Read >10K monthly sale) a leading manufacturer clear cars with poor weld quality. These things cannot be identified during PDI but surely affect structural strength and safety.

The volume of cars sold leads me to supect that my car is from the same manufacturer

[Maverick Avi]

I just hope Ram was not working for any Japanese OEM as it would just shake away all my faith in their Poka-Yoke, Gemba and what not quality concepts. Most of the manufacturers in India would have an exhaustive checklist and SOPs for testing and all but what they don't have is a mechanism to make sure this testing is done religiously by all testers. Coupled by company targets this PDI and all goes for a toss and all we have is a regulatory mechanism that does not work as expected.

From what I know Japanese manufacturers are known for mistake proofing their manufacturing and assembly process so that the end result has minimal faults. It sure would take a lot to fix a noisy window rollup/rolldown or a noisy suspension. Much easier to place a tick on the checklist. Hence companies that are known for better quality products also waste less time on such wasteful activities and are able to achieve a more happier customer base.

[Latheesh]

Originally Posted by Maverick Avi

I just hope Ram was not working for any Japanese OEM as it would just shake away all my faith in their Poka-Yoke, Gemba and what not quality concepts.

Unintended acceleration, emission scandal, and Takata airbags are few Japanese things come to my mind.

[city2491]

Originally Posted by Latheesh

Unintended acceleration, emission scandal, and Takata airbags are few Japanese things come to my mind.

I think by unintended acceleration you mean Toyota. But that didn’t happen because of some mechanical problems, the culprit was the floor mats fitted on those cars (from the manufacturer itself) that would catch the accelerator pedal when it was fully depressed, thus it wouldn’t come up and the cars would accelerate.

[Gansan]

When I bought my Alto in 2009, one had to indicate the choice of color and they will bring a car to the showroom. If one didn't like it they will bring another the next day, and that was it; only one rejection was allowed. I don't know how things are now!

After I approved my car, I noted the km on the odo. When I went to take delivery the next day, the reading was still the same. This after the car had made a trip to the RTO office for registration which was about 10 km round trip! When I mentioned this to the SA, he coolly opened the bonnet and connected the odo cable to the engine!

This pissed me off. Then how can I be sure of the original odo reading itself? I went to the works manager and gave him an earful. He took it well, was apologetic and told me some amount of driving of a new car was unavoidable. Cars are sometimes delivered by train and were unloaded at a railhead, which for Chennai was about 45 KM away, from where the cars will be driven to their stockyard. Then from stockyard they will be driven to one of their showrooms, sometimes more than once.

So they will simply disconnect the odo around 70 KM, beyond which customers may reject the car! That though this was unavoidable, they had responsible people monitoring the movement of all cars and keeping a check. As we were acquainted for a few years even before I became their customer (their showroom is next to my office), I let it go. Fortunately ten years down the line, the car is still going strong!

[for_cars1]

Originally Posted by aghate

... on Supercar manufacturing. ..Ferrari, Lamborghini and others in that segment give a very thorough test to the engine before it is installed in the car and then again when the car is assembled.....these cars also have some minor paint work adjustments done post production.

Most of these supercars are handmade rather than by robots/large scale automated process.

At every stage of production, the person who did the job is required to record his signature so that if a fault is discovered after the car rolls out of the factory, it can be traced back to the specific person who did the job. So it is a matter of great pride and extreme accountability for every worker who was involved in building the car.

There is simply no comparison of a supercar manufacturing process with the large scale/ mass market mainstream cars.

[swiftLife]

Man, this thread has been a real eye opener. I now feel that PDI done at the stockyard is not enough. A repeat PDI is required at showroom as well.

After reading all the info here. It's clear that the lemon law is absolutely imperative.

[arindam.dino]

Came across this video, forward on to 11:10 for a discussion on welds.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7mZ8sMd7kk8

[aghate]

Originally Posted by for_cars1

Most of these supercars are handmade rather than by robots/large scale automated process.

At every stage of production, the person who did the job is required to record his signature so that if a fault is discovered after the car rolls out of the factory, it can be traced back to the specific person who did the job. So it is a matter of great pride and extreme accountability for every worker who was involved in building the car.

There is simply no comparison of a supercar manufacturing process with the large scale/ mass market mainstream cars.

My post was not regarding the craftsmanship required to build a supercar or the process of it. What I said was about the engine testing that happens in the process of the build, that is, revving the engine to its maximum and other aspects of testing it(you may add technical terms here).

It is obvious that the level of effort that goes in to manufacturer a multi million dollar supercar is immense and nowhere close to what happens in mass market production vehicles.

[gkveda]

May be slight off-topic, but definitely relevant question.

As I know, most dealers dump the new cars in their yards directly under sun in open fields.

I am really curious to know, How do they protect the cables, wires and other rat edible things within the cars?

The reason why I am asking this question is, just 2 days back, I had been to a hospital on Hosur Road and had parked my car for 2-3 hours in an open field. By the time, I came out of hospital and started the car, some rats had entered the bonnet and had eaten wires and car did not start. I had to call Helpline and get their support to join the cut wires and pay heavily for their support.

Hence, I am curious. Please let us know the secret of protecting cars against rats in such open fields especially when they are dumped in those yards for weeks together

[Researcher]

Originally Posted by gkveda

I am really curious to know, How do they protect the cables, wires and other rat edible things within the cars?

A very valid question that had not crossed my mind yet. Maybe the fresh smell of paint is itself a rat repellent (someone told me this was a reason that all lizards go missing when our house got repainted). Or the rats get confused seeing so many cars. But I hopefully think the dealer must be checking if car doesn't start in the dealer level PDI. I have seen lizards in the engine bay though during a yard visit.

[deehunk]

A lucky customer will get free speakers on a base variant without additional costs. The dealer later recalls vehicle to remove speakers from the door, reason donor car was a mid-variant. An unknowing owner will not know till he takes the vehicle to ICE installation. A shoddy PDI at the dealership, can a car buyer do PDI at this level?

The door panels removed for taking off speakers, how to count the number of times these panels would have been removed?

A few photos of the car on delivery day, improper fog lamp fitment, dislocated rear tail lamp. These were rectified after heated arguments.

Will Mahindra Rise? No courtesy call too, washed off hands. Why a dealer has to take the blame for transit damages?

[gautamkhadse]

We recently bought a Kia Seltos GT ( DCT ) and before taking the delivery had already done a deal with Darshan Tyres for exchanging stock tyres with Michelin PS4 . Out of the showroom we drove straight to Darshan Tyres . There I was informed that the stock tyres had easily done about 600-700 kms . The guys at Darshan happens to be a good friend and am sure that wasnt a lie . He just told me that as an FYI did not renegotiate the exchange prices .

He later told me that he happens to be a supplier to a lot of showrooms in Pune and that this is a regular practice at showrooms . They swap the tyres of a new delivery vehicle with the tyres from a test drive vehicle . Was a shock for me . After paying a good 20 lakhs you wouldnt expect such a thing .

[deehunk]

The swapping of tyres is serious, did you report this to KIA? We know car dealers sell exchanged tyres from new cars.