[kiku007]

Things that come to my mind,

Pennywise and pound foolish.
Buyer beware.
Too many cooks spoil the broth.

I wonder what were you after? A car or a discount? Keep the eyes on the prize, man.

[graaja]

Originally Posted by shrvenkataraman

...i get that this is a hopeless case without any solid hard evidence but that's also because those guys never agreed to give anything in writing. Even after paying advance.

You have your answer there. Without a printed proforma invoice or a quotation listing everything promised and the price with terms and conditions, you do not have any case here. Like another user said, you can try writing to Tata Motors directly and HOPE if they can help you. But that is all you can do. HOPE.

My sincere advice. Consider this as a life experience and learning and move on. You got a beautiful car. Focus on enjoying the car

I thought this forum was having people who could actually offer helpful advice. For everyone siding with the dealer without understanding how this is lopsided as a case, please ignore the thread and don't comment on how it was my mistake or whatever.

Just stating the fact here. This is an open forum and everyone will have their point of view and you have no control on what is posted. All you can do is take the points relevant to your situation and work on that (which sadly in your case is very limited).

[ninjatalli]

Originally Posted by shrvenkataraman

I got what all of you are saying.

But you're all failing to understand one thing.

No matter how we negotiated, if the dealer wasn't happy with the negotiation, he could have closed the case and asked us to find another dealer or tell us we have to pay extra.

Making us believe that he's offering something and then after payment saying that he didn't agree for it, is cheating.

What we did and what they did are in no way comparable. We negotiated and even if it is dirty, doesn't involve fraud or cheating.

All of at some point(s) of our life tend to over-expect the other person to do the right thing but when it comes to overself, we lay the barrier much lower.

Let me give a few pointers where you went / did potentially wrong

- Still negotiating for a lower price drop (5.6L) after agreeing with him for a quotation (whatsapp conversation - ~5.7L). If you expect him to agree to commitments inline with that whatsapp conversation, you (and your family/others) shouldn't have continued to negotiate further

- Month end + Year end sale: I see you mention Ashok/Naween mentioning that the payment should have happened before the year end; which I believe/guess you would have in-principle agreed. This is a big deal for sales folks - I believe the car's sale deed is done post year end; which is a big issue for them as they would have given you many of the benefits that their firm as well as Tata would have allowed for the year end sales only.

- Too many cooks spoil the broth: Honestly, if I were the sales guy, I would have been pissed off at you. Ashok and Naween have actually acted very proper IMO. 6L might be a big deal for you/me, but it's just one transaction for them - they have hundreds of similar sales going on, many for even much much larger amounts. It'll be a big headache just to recollect what each customer had discussed; for you the situation was what each representative of your family had discussed. It's easy for you to recollect, a big headache for them.


I could go on, but I hope the forum's replies have given clarity to you. There's no defrauding out here. I would agree with @graaja and others and upfront state that you are actually at fault. Be at peace and enjoy the car - atleast they didn't screw up on the vehicle since you haven't raised a single point wrt to the vehicle condition post delivery.

Originally Posted by shrvenkataraman

For everyone siding with the dealer without understanding how this is lopsided as a case, please ignore the thread and don't comment on how it was my mistake or whatever.

Welcome to the forum We don't work like that; if a member does a wrong thing or has a wrong understanding, we point out the right thing immediately.

Considering the majority (if not all) of posts are pointing out this aspect for you, I hope you take it in the right spirits!


Note: Raised a request with the mods to correct the thread name in accordance with the situation

[TROOPER]

Originally Posted by ninjatalli

Month end + Year end sale: I see you mention Ashok/Naween mentioning that the payment should have happened before the year end; which I believe/guess you would have in-principle agreed. This is a big deal for sales folks - I believe the car's sale deed is done post year end; which is a big issue for them as they would have given you many of the benefits that their firm as well as Tata would have allowed for the year end sales only.

Can attest to this.

Our dealer (Tata) called us up and sent an email asking us to confirm if he can invoice the car ASAP, in December. So that he doesn't have to go around the January prices, gets the incentives and we too would be safe. We agreed. He reciprocated by issuing the warranty from delivery date (during PDI he said warranty would start from date of invoice - which would be 20th December, date of delivery was 9th January)

[greenhorn]

Originally Posted by shrvenkataraman

I got what all of you are saying.

But you're all failing to understand one thing.

No matter how we negotiated, if the dealer wasn't happy with the negotiation, he could have closed the case and asked us to find another dealer or tell us we have to pay extra.

Making us believe that he's offering something and then after payment saying that he didn't agree for it, is cheating.

What we did and what they did are in no way comparable. We negotiated and even if it is dirty, doesn't involve fraud or cheating.

For all of you asking why we don't have anything in writing, these dealership salespeople including sales lead said throughout the process that they won't give anything in writing.

If they said before we paid and loan was through, we would have found another dealer. If they weren't ready for renegotiation after getting token advance, they could have said so.

Keeping us in the dark and cheating us after delivery, i dont know how that is comparable to us negotiating with two other dealer offers in hand. After sending booking advance we never mentioned other dealers and only tried to bring the price further down. If they said clearly they weren't open to renegotiation, we would have gladly taken a choice.

I thought this forum was having people who could actually offer helpful advice. For everyone siding with the dealer without understanding how this is lopsided as a case, please ignore the thread and don't comment on how it was my mistake or whatever.

If you have any helpful comments at all on how i can get what we were promised, please let me know.

From some helpful comments i get that this is a hopeless case without any solid hard evidence but that's also because those guys never agreed to give anything in writing. Even after paying advance.

So they gave you an invoice, you paid them, then you turned around and accuse of them of not providing an AMC that you had not been invoiced for, and say THEY are committing fraud? I submit the people in this thread who are demanding something they didnt pay for and defaming a dealer are the ones committing fraud.

Let me count the many wrongs that happenned.

Ideally when they saw you trying to pitch them against another dealer they should have refused to entertain you beyond a certain level - customers like that are always a red flag.

I think many people have said this, but you DO NOT have multiple people negotiating parallelly for the same thing. Were you personally present in all these negotiation discussions? There is always a lead negotiator or a principal for any deal. if your name was on the bill, it was your responsiblity to tie all the ends together. I am also involved in pricing many million dollar deals - and nobody in my team is authorized to discuss pricing with anyone other that myself, and the same happens at the customer end. There may be exceptions for large deals, stakeholders may need to be INFORMED, but if you are buying my cheapest product at the steepest possible discount - you are going to get the standard sales process (unless you are a volume buyer) Differen parties have different motives and agendas, and having a deal negotiated at mutliple touch points opens things up to conflict a both sides. Both we and our customers understand that - which is why there is a single point. The salesman tried to politely stick to the policy.

And you ESCALATED him to his management. They were absolutely right to support him. If he was in my team, I would have supported him too.

Then you said you do not understand insurance and made your mother negotiate insurance - if you are not competent enough to understand what you are purchasing, you should not be making the purchase - The sales rep agreed to still work with you - his mistake

They gave you a quote with a fair amount of value added services which would have allowed them to give a discount that matched your expectations, then you turn around and say you will not pay for the value added services - and still want to keep the same discount - THAT is an extremely disengenous practice - A quote is valid in is entirety. You cannot agree to a quote, and then say that you will honor only parts of it. Of course AMC and insurance can be changed, but then the quote changes. The sales guy was gracious enough to eat the hit to his margins - Mistake by him

You did not honor the payment date - making him miss the year end target and get hit with the price hike. Another mistake

You are absolutely right - they should have refused to take payment and stopped the sale, but they were trying to find a way to make it work with you - so he sent you an invoice with a way out in which he though would work. If this was not acceptable to you - YOU should have refused it. Instead you paid it. Then you realize you screwed up and paid (and overpaid) and then start asking for things that were discussed during negotiaions ( but were never properly nailed down). The one document where it WAS nailed down - the invoice - you claim ignorance of that.

SO Let's see the mistakes
The dealer
- agreed to a price war with another dealer
- refused to have multiple parallel negotiations, but ultimately gave in after you escalated him
- instead of refusing to deal with you after you missed your committments, tried to find a way to make it work with you
- Ate some of their margins (loss of year end closing discounts, price hike) and removed some tentative items (AMC) to give you an agreed price due to circumstances which were totally beyond their control
- Delivered a car with a visor missing
- Has not refunded you 5K yet for a transaction that has not been completed


You on the other hand

- had multiple parties try to negotiate in parallel, without you in the loop, and sometimes misrepresenting their intentions
- agreed to purchase a car, but claim you are not competent to undertand some aspects of the transaction
- Escalated and got into an arguement with a dealership for a sales rep following what is essentially a sales best practice
- agreed to a discount contingent on on some high margin items, then insist for the same discount without those items included
- did not stick to the timeline agreed
- Refuse to sign delivery challan for issues which are not related to the Vehicle itself
- Accuse the Dealership of fraud when they have delivered everthing that was invoiced and paid for


I see a dealership which has bent over backwards trying to service a customer, and made some minor slip ups in the process, and a customer trying to take advantage of that and play the victim card. Generally most of the folks here are biased in favour of the customer, having had bad experiences with dealers in general. But if you want to defend your position and and expect us to sympathize, you may find that not all of us will agree with your assessment of yourself and the dealer

[Raghav_K]

TL;DR version of where everything went wrong:

* You negotiated with multiple salesmen
* Multiple people negotiated for you
* You did not get anything written and signed prior
* You wanted changes to an agreed deal
* You opted out of insurance after agreeing for it, reducing the dealer margin in the deal
* You paid more than what you agreed for
* You paid after the agreed timeline

and frankly,

* You were Unethical

and finally,

* You were Outsmarted.


Just consider this as a game or a bet where you lost, get past this, and enjoy the nice vehicle you got. Happy Motoring!!

[JithinR]

Originally Posted by shrvenkataraman

From some helpful comments i get that this is a hopeless case without any solid hard evidence but that's also because those guys never agreed to give anything in writing. Even after paying advance.

Yep, this is the gist of it. Unfortunately, you have only yourself to blame. Even when I went to get a new car for my family I didn't have multiple people helping me with negotiations. My parents are in a different state and no uncle or aunty to help. I ponied up the advance only after agreeing to what all will be included in the deal and then getting all the freebies/extras documented on the performa invoice.

Originally Posted by shrvenkataraman

I guess we were the fools, but we were not just fooled, but the entire way they treated us was insulting enough for a first time car buyer. Those with a holier than thou attitude can skip commenting this thread sayin we confused the poor salespeople. They aren't poor. They are getting paid salaries and enough hefty commissions from every deal, otherwise they wouldn't even agree to deal with us for the rates we negotiated to.

Thanks to everyone who offered helpful comments.

This is where are little empathy would help. From your perspective what you have written is correct.
But from their perspective they have multiple people to deal with and that sales commission involves getting maximum people to buy the product. They will over promise and under deliver (you would have or might be doing the same thing in college now in your course work).

Request mods to look into updating this thread title as others have requested.

[Nanolover]

You got a good car at a nice price in the end. Forget about other stuff and enjoy the car. In the end the dealers too have to make a living and a margin. I am surprised with your bandwidth to deal with multiple personnel. I usually look at ex showroom price and on road and negotiate to reasonable limits with if course cheque book in hand to show I am serious. Put the past behind and move on.

Nice little car shouldn't be in line of fire for this.

[CarNerd]

Congrats to those who have understood the issue. I read till 1/3rd of the topic and suddenly I start behaving like Aamir Khan in Ghajini..

[Red Liner]

I also find it dangerous that the dealer delivered the car but did not get a signed delivery challan in return. They should have taken the car back to the dealership and had the OP come there to pick the car up along with a signature on the delivery challan.

The thread title should read: How NOT to buy a new car.

[skchettry]

Congratulations on the new acquisition. Enjoy driving!
I think the message is clear. It's your money and you have the full freedom to spend it the way you like ensuring maximum mileage out of it.
I, for one, would take a learning out of your experience - to make the deal as simple as possible, with every promise and assurance captured in black and white.

[Lambydude]

Originally Posted by shrvenkataraman

I
I thought this forum was having people who could actually offer helpful advice. For everyone siding with the dealer without understanding how this is lopsided as a case, please ignore the thread and don't comment on how it was my mistake
Those with a holier than thou attitude can skip commenting this thread sayin we confused the poor salespeople. They aren't poor. They are getting paid salaries and enough hefty commissions from every deal, otherwise they wouldn't even agree to deal with us for the rates we negotiated to.

Thanks to everyone who offered helpful comments.

After reading your opening post the first thought that came to my mind was empathy with the poor salesman along with utter confusion. I call him poor because of the ordeal he had to go through.

Again, I totally get your point that when you are paying money for something, there is nothing wrong in trying to save even a rupee if you can. HOWEVER, there is a fine line between being a customer looking for best quote and being a pain. What is normally followed is after you agree to a quote, you pay the booking amount and do not do any more bargaining.
Now for argument sake, you can ask why not bargain even after paying the booking amount, it's your money. Nothing wrong in that. But in that case, the quote has to be reworked on because the SA arrived at the previous quote split based on some factors which has been changed now.

Here you expect the SA to be a complete professional and treat you as a customer and abide by " customer is always right" attitude. But SAs are also humans. Did you treat him well? You involved multiple people ( almost 7), you went back and forth on your word, you didn't pay booking in december which you had promised. Then how can you expect him to be a thorough professional.

Lastly, in this forum, members do express their opinion based on how they see it. No one is siding with anyone or showing holier than thou attitude. The earliest you understand the situation and try to bury this, you will be able to happily enjoy your new car. Focus on that, it's your first car.

Note to moderators: please edit the thread heading. It's misleading

[a4anurag]

Originally Posted by shrvenkataraman

For all of you asking why we don't have anything in writing, these dealership salespeople including sales lead said throughout the process that they won't give anything in writing.

This was the first and main RED alert that you should have realised and vanished from there. Any dealer who doesn't give in writing doesn't deserve the business deal to happen.

Originally Posted by shrvenkataraman

I thought this forum was having people who could actually offer helpful advice. For everyone siding with the dealer without understanding how this is lopsided as a case, please ignore the thread and don't comment on how it was my mistake or whatever.

Relax buddy. Don't get offended. All of us here are to help each other and all everyone is doing is letting you know the issues/reasons that caused the deal to go sour.

So many people negotiating caused unnecessary confusion and running around making the new car delivery occasion a bad one.

[swissknife]

I got this feeling that while you wanted to get the best price, you did not want the dealer to make any profit out of the sale. It is common that there is some margin in every sale / service and this is how a business stays afloat. Negotiating is perfectly agreeable, but then, the intention to drain a business of all its profit options isn't. As it was said earlier, paying in Jan instead of Dec may have impacted the dealers targets aa well. Not having anything in detail in writing doesn't help your case either.

[rageshgr]

All said and done, I guess you still got a good discount as you yourself said, OTR is 6.4 and by Jan the price also changed it seems. Fair negotiation is fine. But using multiple people to confuse the dealership was in poor taste. After you had all discussions, then again others calling and asking the salesmen to explain everything again is kind of unfair. Please value everyone's time. And you kept calling multiple dealers low balling each other.
And prank calling on the dealers by spoofing as "fresh customers". Really? :(
While we bargain for the last rupee, remember that this not a one time thing. And we need to have a smooth relationship with them for the next 4-5 years. Try to not make our relationships not sour as much as possible.
Pls put all this behind and enjoy the new car! It's one of the best cars in that price range