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Old 27th August 2020, 13:55   #46
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Re: Handling charges deemed compulsory by Trident Renault, Bangalore

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Originally Posted by Samir Choudhry View Post
Trident has sold close to 250,000 cars and I am sure we would not have reached here if our customers did not trust us.

We replaced the entire car and not a few damaged body parts because we felt that under the circumstances it was the right thing to do , at the cost of repeating myself I would once again like to say that Dealers are not cheats / rouges / out to make a quick buck , we try and run ethical businesses ( since I do know most of Dealers in Bangalore, I can say that with confidence )
At Rs10000 handling charge per vehicle,
Am i right in saying, that translates to Rs 250 crores of cash on your books earned through deceitful means by misleading customers?

In that case, Rs 18 lakh car as a replacement is nothing if it is going to earn some goodwill once in a while, or maybe even once every quarter.

Last edited by bharatbits : 27th August 2020 at 14:00.
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Old 27th August 2020, 14:12   #47
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Re: Handling charges deemed compulsory by Trident Renault, Bangalore

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Originally Posted by Samir Choudhry View Post
Trident has sold close to 250,000 cars and I am sure we would not have reached here if our customers did not trust us.
Dear Sir, doesn't matter if you sold even 10 lakh cars if there is a customer unsatisfied. The first mantra of sales is that "the customer is always right"

I used to work in the car dealership and know the in and out of things happening behind the scenes. Can you tell me if you issue a tax invoice for these "handling charges"? I'm sure the answer is no. 9/10 dealerships I have interacted with will hush it up. Infact, even when I picked up my Abarth, I had to pay logistic charges to the dealers, but I ensured I got a bill for it and not just a "debit note".
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Old 27th August 2020, 16:14   #48
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Re: Handling charges deemed compulsory by Trident Renault, Bangalore

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Originally Posted by Samir Choudhry View Post
The fact is , when any customer leaves a car for service , it is left at their risk and in the unfortunate case of a mishap , the customer has to make a claim through their respective insurance companies ( if you go for a surgery , you sign a liability waiver form )

We replaced the entire car and not a few damaged body parts because we felt that under the circumstances it was the right thing to do , at the cost of repeating myself I would once again like to say that Dealers are not cheats / rouges / out to make a quick buck , we try and run ethical businesses ( since I do know most of Dealers in Bangalore, I can say that with confidence )

Trident has sold close to 250,000 cars and I am sure we would not have reached here if our customers did not trust us.
Hello Mr. Samir, seeing your posts I assume you represent Trident group. Good to hear that you replaced a car which got damaged at YOUR Service Centre.
As someone pointed, this incident is no way related to my concern, nor is it a big amount considering you charge 11k per car which goes into your unaccounted profits.

Let me come straight to the point. I have couple of questions for you:
1. Since Day 1, 21st Aug to be precise, my wife highlighted the concern on Twitter and dropped a mail to CC, till this morning. We have not received a single response over our mails. Attached are the screenshots of all the follow ups. Am sure you have received these mails too.
If you indeed have a justification that the handling charges are legal and you are not breaking any rules of the land, why no one bothers to revert it over email? Kumar Swamy has been speaking to her for past 3 days, the very first day he agreed to reply to the email which is recorded in the call above, but we haven’t got anything yet. They had multiple calls over past 4 days, and my wife has repeatedly requested to revert to the mail with whatever is your decision. Nitin, Ambrish, Cherian.. all from Whitefield Renault have called at different times of the week and tried convincing that these charges are justified.
If Trident is sure they aren’t doing anything illegal and these charges are indeed justified & part of ethical business as you claim, why this hesitation to put it over email?

2. 6 days now, mails, twitter, CC, mails to CEO and am still awaiting a response. If this is the attitude of management when a customer is giving you business, am wondering what would be my plight if assuming I buy this car and have to come to you for some unforeseen circumstances. What would Trident do? Turn a blind eye and let the customer deal with the dealer? What if I have a bad experience with a dealer. I only have 2 options left – Live with it or sell the car.
Is this how Renault mgmt. looks at customer issues?

3. Are you ready to lose 15 lacs just for 11k?

4. Kumar Swamy spoke to my wife this morning. Just in case you haven’t been updated yet, below is the offer which she conveyed to Kumar.
-We do not want the 5k Good will gesture cash discount you offered yesterday, or any other discount in any form.
-Insurance from Renault is quoted 64k, while I am getting a deal of 32k including engine cover outside. Considering Ambrish offered 10k discount from the margin, it’s still 20k additional for me. Initially we had decided to go for insurance outside, but now we are ok to lose 20k and take it from Renault.
- In return you need to waive off the handling charges from the invoice. You are free to adjust this amount( 20k + 5k) internally which you don’t need to pay me.
We are probably the first customers who request you not to offer any discount or are willing to pay extra for insurance, but we do not want ‘the’ component in our invoice.
I will wait till 28th Aug evening for a response from Trident. If things can’t be settled by then, I will start considering my other short listed cars. And ya… Pls ask your team to revert to our mails
Good day!
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Old 27th August 2020, 16:49   #49
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Re: Handling charges deemed compulsory by Trident Renault, Bangalore

For all the employees of Renault Whitefield who claim handling charges are mandatory anywhere in the country. Attached is the price list of Renault Kochi. Am wondering how they don't incur logistic charges to transport the vehicle to showroom etc etc and even if they do, they don't extort it from customers. Mind you, their ex showroom price is exactly the same as Whitefield Renault or Renault website
Attached Thumbnails
Handling charges deemed compulsory by Trident Renault, Bangalore-kerala-price-list.jpeg  

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Old 27th August 2020, 17:15   #50
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Re: Handling charges deemed compulsory by Trident Renault, Bangalore

Yes , I am one of the Directors of Trident & I thought that did get established when Soumobakshi did mention my name in his post @ 8:14 pm on 26th Aug.

The views of the Karnataka High Court and Supreme Court of India , regarding collection of handling charges have been shared on this thread.

It would appear that a lot of people have little if any qualms about calling others cheats without even verifying the facts .. therefore I choose to disengage from this conversation.
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Old 27th August 2020, 17:24   #51
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Re: Handling charges deemed compulsory by Trident Renault, Bangalore

I like the way you have stuck to your guns .

Very simple why it is not standard everywhere, because it is illegal!. They sell thousands of cars and hardly 2% to 3% of customers really dig in and ask for explanation of each and every paisa. There is a reason why it is Rs 11,033 and not 11,000, as if something totally justifiable and legal cost is passed on to you.

When 97% of the customers just carry on with the deal and do not bother too much as they are so excited during this joyous and momentous occasion, the dealers just carry on with this practice for days, months and years until they stumble upon one customer like you and they are caught with their pants down!.

Now I am really interested to know how they deal with this and sure there will be closed door meetings (or virtual meetings in the Covid era) on how to handle this 'troublesome' customer.
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Old 27th August 2020, 17:35   #52
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Re: Handling charges deemed compulsory by Trident Renault, Bangalore

Quote:
Originally Posted by livetodrive View Post
For all the employees of Renault Whitefield who claim handling charges are mandatory anywhere in the country. Attached is the price list of Renault Kochi. Am wondering how they don't incur logistic charges to transport the vehicle to showroom etc etc and even if they do, they don't extort it from customers. Mind you, their ex showroom price is exactly the same as Whitefield Renault or Renault website
Kudos to you for investing so much time in this matter and finally finding this price list from another Renault dealer. Although from experience, rogue dealers rarely accept their mistake and would cite multiple reasons justifying their charges.

On a different note, why do you want to pay more for the Insurance when you they are blatantly cheating you on that too. Your post above made me laugh since you sound like a parent trying to teach the child a point on morality by bribing him elsewhere. Score 90% and we will buy you a PS4 ( waive off handling charges and I will pay you more in Insurance ). Hats off to the dealer for standing up for what they feel is right!

Can't you buy from the Kochi dealer since you are sold on the car and register it in Bangalore? Starting a bitter relationship with the only dealer in town is not the safest way to start a long term car ownership journey. More so since Duster and Renault in general are struggling to sell cars and on top of it corona pandemic has further affected the sales, yet the dealer is willing to lose you as a customer. I would stay far away from such a dealer/car maker.
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Old 27th August 2020, 17:40   #53
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Re: Handling charges deemed compulsory by Trident Renault, Bangalore

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Originally Posted by Nalin1 View Post
Now I am really interested to know how they deal with this and sure there will be closed door meetings (or virtual meetings in the Covid era) on how to handle this 'troublesome' customer.
After requesting Sameer for a reply to our mails, I got one in less than an hour. See it and decide for yourself if they really value interested customers.

'Aaye to welcome, gaye to bheed kum' is how they see their customers, especially the ones who demand an explanation.

I REST MY CASE
Attached Thumbnails
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Last edited by livetodrive : 27th August 2020 at 18:08.
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Old 27th August 2020, 17:42   #54
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Re: Handling charges deemed compulsory by Trident Renault, Bangalore

Last year I got a Honda Jazz for my aunt from Deccan Honda, Pimpri. This car was a gift from my cousins to their parents and I was handling the whole deal as my cousins were in the US. I was straight forward even before Deccan Honda took the price list out that I will not be paying the handling charges. They gave me a discount of close to 1 lakh on a freshly manufactured car. I was really impressed with the whole deal.

Firstly, They should be thankful that you are considering such an outdated product for an atrocious price. No offence to Duster owners but the vehicle is too long in the tooth now. Just a new petrol engine and nothing else.

Secondly, They can go to any extent to justify the handling charges but it’s “Illegal”. Period. It’s clear the Ex-showroom price includes the transportation charges too, I mean it’s “Ex-showroom” for a reason. That’s common sense and doesn’t need any rocket science.

Skip on the duster or get it from some other city and make sure you do not get it serviced from Trident. For all the transparency/ethical business they claim, it’s funny when they are ready to give a cash + insurance discount but not waive off the handling charges.
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Old 27th August 2020, 17:52   #55
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Re: Handling charges deemed compulsory by Trident Renault, Bangalore

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Originally Posted by livetodrive View Post
Hello Mr. Samir, seeing your posts I assume you represent Trident group. Good to hear that you replaced a car which got damaged at YOUR Service Centre.
As someone pointed, this incident is no way related to my concern, nor is it a big amount considering you charge 11k per car which goes into your unaccounted profits.
I am sorry to read all this... BUT! you are the customer just walk away and get another car that suits the needs, even if it is not the best. I would if I were you.
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Old 27th August 2020, 17:58   #56
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Re: Handling charges deemed compulsory by Trident Renault, Bangalore

Quote:
Originally Posted by Samir Choudhry View Post
Yes , I am one of the Directors of Trident & I thought that did get established when Soumobakshi did mention my name in his post @ 8:14 pm on 26th Aug.

The views of the Karnataka High Court and Supreme Court of India , regarding collection of handling charges have been shared on this thread.

It would appear that a lot of people have little if any qualms about calling others cheats without even verifying the facts .. therefore I choose to disengage from this conversation.
You have had the perfect platform here to put across your logical points and present your side of the story. The members of the forum and the folks reading up this forum would have appreciated that but instead, you have chosen to disengage from the conversation on flimsy grounds.

It makes for bad optics for a manufacturer like Renault and that too in a city like Bangalore. That you guys have sold 2.5 lacs of cars becomes entirely irrelevant when a customer presents his case in a nuanced manner and you have nothing concrete to say on that. The customer is too lenient to even indulge in follow ups, many would have straight away walked without even blinking !

A car is a product that needs service and maintenance throughout. If the buyer has an issue even before buying then I could well imagine the scenario post buying.

Quote:
I am sorry to read all this... BUT! you are the customer just walk away and get another car that suits the needs, even if it is not the best. I would if I were you.
Exactly my point too, not worth the hassle at all.

Last edited by ABHI_1512 : 27th August 2020 at 18:07. Reason: Additional quote
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Old 27th August 2020, 18:14   #57
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Re: Handling charges deemed compulsory by Trident Renault, Bangalore

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Originally Posted by Samir Choudhry View Post
As of now and to the best of our understanding ;

The Supreme Court explicitly stated :-

1) “Having heard learned counsel for the petitioners, and having perused the impugned order passed by the High Court, we find no justification whatsoever to interfere with the same..”

2) The Karnataka High Court has also declined from interfering in this matter and left it to the Transport Department ( their jurisdiction is restricted to registration charges )
Can @GTO or other moderators or any lawyers who can do this research confirm or shed more light on the quoted post. I have a feeling this might be taking a small part of court statement and spinning it to their advantage like most political parties do.

Last edited by Vid6639 : 27th August 2020 at 18:23. Reason: fixing the quote tags
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Old 27th August 2020, 21:16   #58
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Re: Handling charges deemed compulsory by Trident Renault, Bangalore

Just to put this at rest once and for all ..
Attached Files
File Type: pdf Delhi High Court.pdf (270.9 KB, 198 views)
File Type: pdf Supreme Court Logistic Charges.pdf (56.2 KB, 202 views)
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Old 27th August 2020, 21:19   #59
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Re: Handling charges deemed compulsory by Trident Renault, Bangalore

OP, just walk away from this deal. Not worth the headache. You have already got the answer from them that they are not willing to drop the charges why deal with them at all.

What you(and all of us) can do is make sure this thread reaches far and loud. Mr.Samir is not going to lose his sleep over one customer not buying from him, but in the current day where customers are being smart enough to do some digging on a certain dealership(before buying from them) this thread will be sure to come up and they are at their discretion to decide on the showroom and might change his/her mind.

I have had to face similar "handling charges" in invoices before and have been straight with the showroom execs right from the beginning that as long as that charge stays in the invoice you have no deal with me. Some were smart enough to understand and some were not. Clearly not my loss.

Moreover, Mr.Samir wants us to think that he is doing us a favor by staying in business. For someone who thinks he is entitled to charge people illegal charges, yeah I don't buy that for a minute.

I recall reading a quote somewhere along the line of "You are not doing the customer a favor by being in business rather the customer is doing you a favor by bringing his business to you".

On one hand, he says he is not out here to cheat on the other hand his company says(paraphrasing here) "No we will not remove this illegal charge we are charging you". Surely the irony is not lost on a lot of people here.

For those who were saying it's only 1% suck it up and pay it.

Imagine shopping for goods worth Rs.95 and paying an Rs.100 bill, shopkeeper guy doesn't want to give you the change back instead wants you to spend the full 100 so he says he has no change so he gives a bar of chocolate worth Rs5/-. Do you have to accept it? no, but do you accept it 9/10 times, why? Because while it might be a ploy to add one more item you have shopped for, but it doesn't hurt you because you got something in exchange for your 5rs isn't it? So nothing illegal has gone down in that transaction.
So the shopkeeper aims to make you spend as much as you can here and he succeeded in lawfully doing that. No harm no foul

Now imagine shopping for a car, you have 15L as budget, the car comes to 14.9L, but the showroom guy wants you to spend the whole 15L then and there. So what they can do is
1. Upsell you onto a different model/accessories. Do you have to accept it? No, but is it legal to do this? Yes absolutely, they have done something which is totally within the framework of the law. Afterall something of value has been offered in exchange for that money.

2. They want to charge you the remaining amount under some BS pretext and make you spend 15L. Do you have to accept it? No, but is it legal to do this? No, absolutely not. Nothing of value has been offered in exchange for that money.

Now in case 2 imagine the amount of money they dealership has made just because 100's of people thought, But going by the logic of suck it up and pay I'm anyway spending 14.9L what difference is 10K going to make. If each of those people were getting something in return for that 10k all is fair and good but if it was towards something illegal, cheating is the only word to call it.

Cheers
Krishna

Last edited by krishnaprasadgg : 27th August 2020 at 21:26.
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Old 27th August 2020, 21:37   #60
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Re: Handling charges deemed compulsory by Trident Renault, Bangalore

Walk away my friend. Choose a different brand. Dealership group has made it clear, they don't need or want your business.

Not worth losing your sleep over this. Look at the bright side, you came to know about their true color before you bought anything from them. Had it been a service experience, pretty sure the same gentleman boasting of replacing a damaged car with a new one would cite all sorts of legal mumbo jumbo to wriggle out of liability.

And about them replacing a damaged car - that's just words, no need to read too much into it, can easily be someone related to the dealership who wanted a new car. Dump it as goodwill expense in the books and claim a loss for lower tax liability. Who knows? As they say devil is in the details.
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