[sarathlal]

Originally Posted by Jaggu

Look for scrap vehicle with same CVT gearbox / vehicle model range. Do it through Honda dealer only.

Will checking with the insurance agency also help, as they might have cross location damaged vehicle access?

[hserus]

Originally Posted by sarathlal

Will checking with the insurance agency also help, as they might have cross location damaged vehicle access?

Leave it to Honda to sort out!! Don't source scrapped transmissions right now.

The damage can't be that extensive if it has only been lightly driven so far, with a good amount of CVT fluid still in the tank (I doubt Honda ASS would have opened the oil pan and drained most of the oil out, just drained a couple of litres of CVT fluid and added ATF). So drain as much as you can, change the filters and packing and see if the situation improves.

Try to flush the fluid entirely with this - https://www.amazon.in/AMSOIL-Engine-...dp/B00B5X2TVE/ - before filling new fluid.

[Govardhansupra]

Adding ATF to a to a CVT will eventually result in the death of your transmission.

In my opinion, you should just leave everything to the Goa HASS, and let them figure out, whether to replace, or repair, or scorch one from a scrap Honda City and fit it for you, without any questions asked.

They are anyway obliged to do so, as it was their, and only their mistake in the first place.

To even it out more, try asking them to provide a loaner vehicle if possible, and also bear other additional charges. Sorry if this is not doable.

[Comrade]

I am afraid your CVT might be toss. Automatic transmissions are known to be very picky with oil, and using wrong oil (even if they say its compatible) is strictly no.

I would suggest you to register a complaint with Honda, and let them handle the issue with the Goan dealer. You should request a transmission replacement, and that too factory refurbished one and nothing less. There is a reason we visit ASCs for critical parts. We expect them to be trained by Honda, and know their cars best. This is utter carelessness.

[raunaqv471]

Hi,

I'm extremely saddened to read this. It's a preposterous goof up on the dealers part. They don't understand basic differences between a torque converter or a CVT.

I myself own a 2013 Civic with a Torque converter slush box and was in two minds whether to give it to ASC or my FNG after personally buying the Honda ATF DW 1 myself. When I enquired with honda over the phone, the senior technician gave me an estimate for a CVT drain and fill oil change, to which I pointed out that the 8th gen civic is equipped with a TC (which I doubt he processed). This phone call left me dubious about their knowledge controls, trustworthiness and after reading this, my fears get confirmed.

This is clearly an unacceptable goof up on the dealers part as customers (besides us Bhpians) shouldn't be expected to understand such nuances . And yes, CVTs tend to be more sensitive to the oil and require more frequent changes. You should escalate the issue to honda and insist on nothing less than a new CVT transmission as a goodwill gesture or a free rebuild. You shouldn't have to bear the financial consequences of their inefficiency and incompetence. Also, the issue with ASCs is that you can't really supervise the work being undertaken. Good luck and do keep us posted.

[s_pphilip]

Originally Posted by govindremesh

. This combined with the sales figures, product portfolio and closure of Noida plant is a good indication of how serious Honda is about customer satisfaction in India.

Consider yourself lucky as you were able to consult a Honda service station in KL. My relatives in KL tell me that Honda service is pretty good there with knowledgeable SAs and technicians.
.

Finding a good service advisor depends on your luck, if you happen to visit Vision Honda in Kottayam, ask for Jerin. He may not be the most technical out there but he sure knows a thing or two about customer service. Between Vision Honda, Pathanamthita and Vision Honda, Kottayam, Jerin is the reason I visit Kottayam despite the distance.

Honda is slowly losing interest in the Indian market it appears, they aren't out to create the impact they once set out for.

Originally Posted by sarathlal

Will checking with the insurance agency also help, as they might have cross location damaged vehicle access?

Good suggestion but I'll keep this as one of the last options, not sure whom to contact and how to proceed.

Originally Posted by hserus

.
The damage can't be that extensive if it has only been lightly driven so far, with a good amount of CVT fluid still in the tank (I doubt Honda ASS would have opened the oil pan and drained most of the oil out, just drained a couple of litres of CVT fluid and added ATF). So drain as much as you can, change the filters and packing and see if the situation improves.

Try to flush the fluid entirely with this - https://www.amazon.in/AMSOIL-Engine-...dp/B00B5X2TVE/ - before filling new fluid.

Thanks Hresus for suggesting this flush, I'll check with Honda about this too.
Actually there was more of ATF than CVT oil. I think the replacement oil is about 3.8 or 3.9 litres and the sump holds a total of about 5.6 liters. So at 81k kms when they filled about 3.9 litres of ATF, that left about 1.5 litres of the old CVT oil in the sump. At 95k kms they topped up about 800 or 900ml. So about 80 to 85% of the transmission oil was the wrong one. Which is why the issue surfaced since there wasn't enough friction molecules and cooling characteristics the remaining 20% CVT oil could provide in the recent 1000 kms drive.

Considering Honda ASC won't flush drain it completely, too get to 90 to 95% CVT oil volume, I'll have to replace the oil thrice at least in total, I think.

Originally Posted by Govardhansupra

In my opinion, you should just leave everything to the Goa HASS, and let them figure out, whether to replace, or repair, or scorch one from a scrap Honda City and fit it for you, without any questions asked.

They are anyway obliged to do so, as it was their, and only their mistake in the first place.

To even it out more, try asking them to provide a loaner vehicle if possible, and also bear other additional charges. Sorry if this is not doable.

Ideally this is how it should be, maybe where business ethics are focused on customer service, depends on what's prioritized like how Jeff Bezos's put it in his famous interview 2 decades back.

For now I've got a verbal commitment from them to reimburse or adjust the costs incurred towards oil replacement, I've told them I need to start with this, done multiple times.

Vision Honda Kottayam said even the oil seal job isn't perfect, it's leaking just the way it used to, so that's another issue which I'll get Goa, Honda to repair again since I already paid for this.

Originally Posted by Comrade

I am afraid your CVT might be toss. Automatic transmissions are known to be very picky with oil, and using wrong oil (even if they say its compatible) is strictly no.

I would suggest you to register a complaint with Honda, and let them handle the issue with the Goan dealer. You should request a transmission replacement, and that too factory refurbished one and nothing less. There is a reason we visit ASCs for critical parts. We expect them to be trained by Honda, and know their cars best. This is utter carelessness.

Exactly, though I've 10 strong reasons to visit a FNG, I still visit ASC despite my preference being otherwise due to the hope that our prized possessions have the expertise accessible.

I recently advised someone to check the City CVT, but now I'll think twice, it's such a shame, since the City CVT matches the cars strengths better than the TC since we have both types of the City at home.

Compared to our TC, the CVT is lot smoother, quicker off the block and offers higher FE.
Fundamentally the products are good.
But with dependance on inconsistent service you will be hanging by a thread someday.
By service I don't mean customer handling, Honda guys usually are slightly better at etiquettes but what happens on the shop floor is anyone's guess.

Originally Posted by raunaqv471

Hi , I'm extremely saddened to read this . It's a preposterous goof up on the dealers part.They don't understand basic differences between a torque converter or a CVT. I myself own a 2013 Civic with a Torque converter slush box and was in two minds whether to give it to ASC or my FNG after personally buying the Honda ATF DW 1 myself. When I enquired with honda over the phone , the senior technician gave me an estimate for a CVT drain and fill oil change, to which I pointed out that the 8th gen civic is equipped with a TC(which I doubt he processed). This phone call left me dubious about their knowledge controls , trustworthiness and after reading this , my fears get confirmed .This is clearly an unacceptable goofup on the dealers part as customers (Besides us Bhpians) shouldn't be expect to understand such nuances . And.yes CVTs tend to be more sensitive to the oil and require more frequent changes. You should escalate the issue to honda and insist on nothing less than a new CVT transmission as a goodwill gesture or a free rebuild. You shouldn't have to bear the financial consequences of their inefficiency and incompetemce . Also the issue with ASCs is that you can't really supervise.the work being undertaken. Good luck and do keep us posted .

Exactly it's not just about the money but the possibility to cross question and touch and feel the work done, FNG's beat ASC's hollow, now it's another thing that finding a good FNG is like looking for a needle in a haystack.

[shreevishnu]

Maybe a thought in a different tangential direction, have you tried to reset the transmission?
A similar 2005 vintage i-dsi CVT city in my extended family, which was paid driver driven (abused) developed similar judder/rpm variation at about 75k kms.
Resetting the TCM to unlearn driver behavior helped reduce this till eventually there was a mjor transmission overhaul at 110k kms.
Yes, please ensure you do it all at Honda dealers only. Finding a scrap vehicle with a good transmission (unsure of how to quantify good) could be harder done than said.

[OctYFAN]

It's really sad to see what happened to your car and when maintained with such care it definitely must be heavy on you. I suggest you can go around scrapyards and garages where they could have an accident car around. There are very low chances that you would find a CVT as they didn't sell numbers.

I am getting parts for my Octavia that way and they are way way cheaper than brand new. I have sourced entire bumpers, body panels(don't ask me how), speakers, an entire door panel and a power window master switch, and some more I can't remember that way. The parts have been around 30% of the dealer price. If it's possible with a Skoda, I definitely think you might have a chance.

Even if you find one, get it checked with multiple dealers as the transmission could have taken damage in the accident. If you get a nod from all of them, fit it in your car. Though you can't check much with transmissions you know. But it is better to lodge a complaint with Honda India or get a proper repair quote and sue the Goa dealer(JK, try if you have time to walk to courts for years).

[ShivSharma]

What the hell is going wrong with Honda and its dealers. This is really careless behaviour on there behalf. Please do escalate this to Honda.

[s_pphilip]

Originally Posted by shreevishnu

Resetting the TCM to unlearn driver behavior helped reduce this till eventually there was a mjor transmission overhaul at 110k kms.
Yes, please ensure you do it all at Honda dealers only. Finding a scrap vehicle with a good transmission (unsure of how to quantify good) could be harder done than said.

Right, finding a used unit with good behavior will be a task.

Just to understand better can you elaborate please, with CVT's, whatever the driving style and inputs, I thought the auto box acts the way it's designed, since there is no clutch, it will release smoothly unless the transmission or related components are worn.
Which gets me to the primary question, by overhaul, what did they do, did they open the CVT unit.

I did another round of oil replacement today with Jerin, despite Christmas celebrations he accommodated late evening, I'll upload pictures shortly capturing the activity, will share observations after a couple of days usage, Jerin and me hope that somehow magically, with these simple steps the issue subsides and it can be back on track though I think there will be some damage somewhere, but if Honda engineering can withstand this ASC abuse, at least some relief for now.

[shreevishnu]

Originally Posted by s_pphilip

Right, finding a used unit with good behavior will be a task.

Just to understand better can you elaborate please, with CVT's, whatever the driving style and inputs, I thought the auto box acts the way it's designed, since there is no clutch, it will release smoothly unless the transmission or related components are worn.
Which gets me to the primary question, by overhaul, what did they do, did they open the CVT unit.

I did another round of oil replacement today with Jerin, despite Christmas celebrations he accommodated late evening, I'll upload pictures shortly capturing the activity, will share observations after a couple of days usage, Jerin and me hope that somehow magically, with these simple steps the issue subsides and it can be back on track though I think there will be some damage somewhere, but if Honda engineering can withstand this ASC abuse, at least some relief for now.

Lookup starter clutch issues on Honda CVT of that vintage, you'll get a bunch of hits. Malaysian forums will tell you both how to replace this (which was done by the Honda dealer in Bangalore instead of replacing entire transmission) and how/why resetting TCM works.

In any older CVT with clutches instead of a torque converter, "aggressiveness" in driving styles will manifest in faster wear of this clutch assembly.

[landcruiser123]

OMG, this is shocking. Many people have a blind trust in ASS and will pay a premium for the ‘peace of mind’ which is exactly what you didn’t get in this case. If you want to keep the car, you should talk to Honda (+ dealer) and get a used transmission with a warranty. If they refuse, try getting hold of a lawyer and go to the consumer court. (Having all documentation helps)

Honestly, I think the latter option is overkill for a 15 year old car, but it’ll teach these incompetent clowns a lesson.

[s_pphilip]

Originally Posted by OctYFAN

It's ...There are very low chances that you would find a CVT as they didn't sell numbers.

I am getting parts for my Octavia that way and they are way way cheaper than brand new. I have sourced entire bumpers, body panels(don't ask me how), speakers, an entire door panel and a power window master switch, and some more I can't remember that way. The parts have been around 30% of the dealer price. If it's possible with a Skoda, I definitely think you might have a chance.
.

Yeah I did that with my Diesel Skoda Fabia too, sourced some EGR valve component for about 1/2 the price from grey market but there was the used option at about 1/3rd too.
But entire CVT slush box, I wasn't sure.

Originally Posted by shreevishnu

Lookup starter clutch issues on Honda CVT of that vintage, you'll get a bunch of hits. Malaysian forums will tell you both how to replace this (which was done by the Honda dealer in Bangalore instead of replacing entire transmission) and how/why resetting TCM works.

In any older CVT with clutches instead of a torque converter, "aggressiveness" in driving styles will manifest in faster wear of this clutch assembly.

Thank you for shedding light, all information is good information for me, I'll read more about what you've mentioned.

Originally Posted by landcruiser123

OMG, this is shocking. ...., try getting hold of a lawyer and go to the consumer court. (Having all documentation helps)

....but it’ll teach these incompetent clowns a lesson.

Legal option isn't something we'd pursue cos everyone's life's have other interesting stuff around, but you never know.
In fact if it wasn't for the CVT unit, I would have already forgiven, forgotten and moved on. I'd have said, mistakes happen, it's human.
But here, they messed with the most sensitive part in the silliest way, common it's just simple oil change, putting me between a rock and hard place.

[s_pphilip]

Thanks to Jaggu's tip, (cheers Jaggu) watched it, the oil is still cherry red. No shavings or fillings stuck to the magnetic nut though, clean oil, just wrong grade. Will do it hence once or twice more.



Just drained the oil today again, that I added on Saturday. Jerin from Vision, Kottayam ensured some of his boys stayed back despite Christmas celebrations. Thanks to him completed it today, else Pathanamthita Vision said they have 4 litres but when I got there they said they can't find that stock. Funny folks.

Attachment 2096925
Looks like this image didn't load, not sure how to do it again using edit.

The reservoir and refill capabilities as per manual, approximates.



Will do this once more to have a clear direction, which way to go.

I drove back with fingers crossed, felt the rubber band effect increased slightly but it could be my thoughts running helter skelter also felt there is a very faint transmission whine.
But the fluctuation reduced considerably, I had my eyes on it, I'll watch it for a couple of days, for the most part I drove gently, too much evening traffic, head was clouded, all the accumulated worries crossing paths, hoping against hope, something like, afraid but also repeating to myself "all is well".

Hopefully all goes well. Will keep all posted, secretly staying optimistic. Thanks for all these valuable suggestions cos it did to an extent pacify a worried me.

When someone is ill they talk to their relatives for comfort.
When your car is ill, you talk to BHPian's for comfort.

[hserus]

Originally Posted by s_pphilip

Thanks to Jaggu's tip, (cheers Jaggu) watched it, the oil is still cherry red. No shavings or fillings stuck to the magnetic nut though, clean oil, just wrong grade. Will do it hence once or twice more.

Great. Was the oil pan removed to drain the maximum and then were the filters and packing removed and replaced? You probably need to replace the filter anyway due to filling with the wrong oil grade.