[pedrolourenco]

My BMW X1 has just completed 4 Years and 21K Kms. Please look at the pictures of the headlights. It's clear that there is crystallisation / cracks most probably caused due to sunlight. However BMW is claiming that it is due to external impact. There are 2 scratches (external abrasion with some tree branches) which are visible. However my claim for replacement is for the crystallisation / cracks on the entire lens of both LHS & RHS headlamps. Below is the mail I sent to them with everything I discussed with the service advisor after the mail regarding the rejection.

From: Peter Savio Lourenço <******@gmail.com>
Sent: Monday, January 11, 2021 21:25
To: Contact.india
Cc: ****@bmw-bavariamotors.in; ****@bmw-bavariamotors.in; ****@bmw-bavariamotors.in; ****@bmw-bavariamotors.in
Subject: Re: FW: Clarification Mail : Car bearing Reg No. - GA*******

Good Day,

Please refer to the below mail regarding denial of Warranty replacement of headlights of my BMW X1. I had reported that my headlights had developed cracks or some kind of crystalization. I was informed verbally by the Service Advisor Mr. J**** that the claim has been rejected as it was external damage. I clarified that I had informed that I was claiming not for extarnal superficial scratches on the RHS headlamp but for the minute cracks/crystalization present on the entire lens of both Headlamps. The service advisor said that it was due to sand hitting the headlamps while driving. The headlights were inspected by the Service manager Mr. V**** in the presence of Sales Manager Mr. E****and both acknowledged the presence of the said cracks/crystalization. The service manager said that the cracks were due to exposure to sunlight. To which I asked the following:
1. My car has completed approximately 20000 Kms. If the problem is due to sand impact then all BMW cars driven in Goa (or other places with similar road and natural conditions) should have the same problem
2. My car has completed 4 years of use. If the problem is due to exposure to sunlight then all 4 year old BMW cars should have the same problem.

We inspected a few cars in the parking lot but were unable to find any with similar levels of deterioration.

The sales manager suggested that the service manager convey my concerns to the technical team for clarification. The below mail is the response I received. I had verbally specified that the answer to my concerns and reasons for rejection of the claim should be logical and technically correct which the below reply is clearly not.

Therefore I hereby seek your clarification/comments (logical and technically correct) on the below:

1. My car has completed approximately 20000 Kms. If the problem is due to sand impact then all BMW cars driven in Goa (or other places with similar road and natural conditions) should have the same problem
2. My car has completed 4 years of use. If the problem is due to exposure to sunlight then all 4 year old BMW cars should have the same problem.
3. If either or both points 1 and 2 are applicable then BMW should inform customers of these problems at the time of the sales presentation and ammend the owners manual accordingly.
4. If BMW feels that the above problems are the fault of the customer then adequate instructions should be provided to the customer at the time of purchase to prevent such problems.
5. If BMW says that it is beyond the control of the manufacturer or the dealer and cannot proove it is the fault of the customer they should find a solution to the problem and replace the part on all cars by means of a recall. This is a widely accepted practice in the automobile industry all over the world.
6. If BMW says that it is due to environmental factors, road conditions or natural conditions, they should go back to the team which carried out the pre launch testing in the very same conditions prior certifying that the vehicle was suitable for use in the region and launching the same.
7. If BMW says the above conditions have changed since the time of the testing, they should provide evidence of the same.
8. If BMW says that this kind of deterioration is normal and there is no manufacturing defect (as stated in the below mail), they should state the same in their advertisements, sales brochures, website and the sales presentation to customers walking in to the showroom.

My car is parked in a covered car porch at my residence where exposure to the elements is minimised. The car has been serviced regularly at the authorised dealer. The car has been driven with care. Same can be confirmed by the service department as they have inspected the same at the time of service and have informed me that the car is mechanically sound.

I have spent a lot of my hard earned money to purchase this car over its competition due to the reputation of the brand. This is despite the vehicle lacking in features compared with the competition. In general the ownership experience has been "Sheer Driving Pleasure" until now. The experience with the staff at Bavaria Motors has been great right from the Mangers down to the persons who serve the coffee and all others. However the below response has been very disappointing. Two bookings which a close friend and me were planning to make later stand temporarily suspended due to this. I will also cease to recommend the brand to other friends and relatives if my concerns are not suitability addressed. I have also refrained from posting about this bad experience on social media and certain automotive forums which I am a member of as I trust that my concerns will be addressed.

I thank you for taking the time to read my long email and hope to receive a positive response from you.

Best Regards,
Capt. Peter Savio Lourenço
***********************
Mob: ******************
Res: *******************
EMail: ********************

On Sat, Jan 9, 2021, 18:07 V**** <****@bmw-bavariamotors.in> wrote:
Dear Mr. Lourenco,
Greetings from Bavaria Motors..!!!
We thank you for choosing BMW and hereby assure you of BMW India’s and Bavaria Motors’ commitment to provide you with high quality products and services at all times.
In regards to your visit last week, for the concern of “cracks on both the head lights” of your car bearing Reg no.GA08N0478. We have consulted the matter with our technical team and based on their feedback we would like to mention that the “Cracks on the headlight lens” has been caused by external influence. It is very difficult to ascertain the exact reason for such damages concerns as they are beyond the reasonable control of BMW or BMW Authorized dealer.
Additionally we would like to assure you that BMW vehicles are renowned for unprecedented build quality and there is no manufacturing defect in your vehicle.
Assuring you of our commitment to provide you with the best possible service at all times.
In case of anything outstanding, please feel free to contact the undersigned who shall be glad to assist you.
With Best Regards,
Bavaria Motors Pvt. Ltd. (32516)
V****
Manager - Aftersales


Following the above lengthy mail I sent, I today got a reply again saying it was external damage. No explanation as to how external impact can cause such a thing on both LHS & RHS headlamps.

This thread is just to make you aware of a problem I have faced with the car. You may choose to support or oppose my views. I respect your opinion on that. But if you are planning to buy a BMW, don't take my word for it. Check for yourself in the parking lot or ask people who own BMW's and then decide. I can say for sure that the headlights have not sustained any impact as such except for the abrasion with some branches which resulted in 2 scratches on the external surface. The cracks / crystallisation are all over and extend through the entire thickness of the lens.

[ninjatalli]

Question - are these marks on the exterior or the interior side? If the former, I really doubt you'll get a warranty claim from any manufacturer, leave alone BMW.

More especially in the case if it is not a common or even seen in a minority of similar cars. Warranty claims are definitely not going to be given in either situation. I'll leave experts to give more views on this (including other options to resolve the actual issue on the headlamps) but I feel you are on a very very weak ledge here. I take it at your word that this is not an external damage by your driving, but looking it from the side of the dealer/BMW, it's not something they would easily give warranty claim approval, especially not for a 4 year old car.

Btw on the aspect of anyone purchasing a BMW (your friend or anyone reading this) - this is a way too minor issue to affect that decision.


Edit: Have you searched online if this is a common problem reported by other BMW car owners?

[pedrolourenco]

Originally Posted by ninjatalli

Question - are these marks on the exterior or the interior side? If the former, I really doubt you'll get a warranty claim from any manufacturer, leave alone BMW.

Interior side. BTW BMW has honoured other Warranty Claims.

More especially in the case if it is not a common or even seen in a minority of similar cars. Warranty claims are definitely not going to be given in either situation.

Whether it is one car or 100, if something is wrong they need to fix it. That's what warranty is for.

I'll leave experts to give more views on this (including other options to resolve the actual issue on the headlamps)

There is nothing that can be done except replacing the lamps.

but I feel you are on a very very weak ledge here. I take it at your word that this is not an external damage by your driving, but looking it from the side of the dealer/BMW, it's not something they would easily give warranty claim approval, especially not for a 4 year old car.

So you mean to say that a 4 year old car is not eligible for a warranty claim when I have 5 years warranty on the car? What's the logic behind this?

Btw on the aspect of anyone purchasing a BMW (your friend or anyone reading this) - this is a way too minor issue to affect that decision.

Let's leave that decision to those who are spending their hard earned money. It's not my money they are spending so I couldn't care less if they ignore this and go ahead and make that purchase. However it is my duty to make people aware (that's what Automotive forums are for). I'm sure quite a few will find this information useful. I have also mentioned that people need not take my word for it but verify for themselves.

Edit: Have you searched online if this is a common problem reported by other BMW car owners?

I check several cars which had this problem but they were older and run more kms.

[moralfibre]

If the cracks are internal and inside the housing then you surely deserve a warranty claim provided there is no other external impact on the pair of headlamps.

[pedrolourenco]

Originally Posted by moralfibre

If the cracks are internal and inside the housing then you surely deserve a warranty claim provided there is no other external impact on the pair of headlamps.

There is no impact damage outside. Only the RHS headlamp has 2 external scratches. The problem on both headlamps is minute dots all over the lens. If it was due to impact there would be cracks radially extending from the point of impact.

[Turbohead]

I believe this is a normal phenomena when cool water comes in contact with the hot headlamps. An example would be sudden showers in the middle of the night after the headlamps have been running hot for a while.

It becomes worse with time and really fogs up the glass. But is this actually a manufacturing defect with the glass?

[androdev]

This issue can happen due to long term parking in the hot sun, or some sort of chemical used during cleaning/polish. Where do you park your car?

Generally, BMW won't reject a warranty claim if they have seen similar problems in the past. If you believe this is a genuine manufacturing defect, it might help your case to gather info on similar incidents from international BMW X1 forums.

[pedrolourenco]

Originally Posted by androdev

This issue can happen due to long term parking in the hot sun, or some sort of chemical used during cleaning/polish. Where do you park your car?

Car is parked in my garage when not being used. I have not used any chemicals on the car other than the car shampoo. The same shampoo is also use on my wife's Celerio.

Generally, BMW won't reject a warranty claim if they have seen similar problems in the past. If you believe this is a genuine manufacturing defect, it might help your case to gather info on similar incidents from international BMW X1 forums.

Many cars have this problem but almost all are run more than 20K Kms and are over 4 years old. Most of them out of warranty so the owners wouldn't bother. Even I would not have bothered if I had not taken extended warranty.

Originally Posted by Turbohead

I believe this is a normal phenomena when cool water comes in contact with the hot headlamps. An example would be sudden showers in the middle of the night after the headlamps have been running hot for a while.

It becomes worse with time and really fogs up the glass. But is this actually a manufacturing defect with the glass?

In that case this should happen to every car (all brands and models) on the road. It's not happened to the Celerio who's headlamps probably cost 1/10th of the BMW ones.

[Cessna182]

The same thing happened on a Nano owned by an acquaintance and the company replaced both the lights and fog lights free of cost. Surprising to see that a luxury car customer faces more hurdles in resolving such issues within warranty. As for the parking location, weather etc, it is BMWs responsibility to ensure that the car is adapted to Indian conditions whether it is Jaisalmer or Kashmir. That's what homologation is for if I am not wrong.

[pedrolourenco]

I had a word with the dealer today. They have promised to take up the issue again with BMW India. Let's see what happens. They are not willing to give me the e-mail address of BMW Germany. Anyone has this address please share with me.

[Jeroen]

Originally Posted by pedrolourenco

They are not willing to give me the e-mail address of BMW Germany. Anyone has this address please share with me.

From the web: customer.service@bmw.com

Good luck

Jeroen

[Miel]

Originally Posted by pedrolourenco

There is no impact damage outside. Only the RHS headlamp has 2 external scratches. The problem on both headlamps is minute dots all over the lens. If it was due to impact there would be cracks radially extending from the point of impact.

Sorry to hear about this bother on your prized X1. Hope it resolves soon.

Do the minute dots have corresponding surface irregularities or abrasions on the surface of your headlamps? Or does it feel smooth and normal when you run your fingers over them? Just wondering whether this is some sort of a peeling-off effect of the material's layers.

Also, any noticeable shadows in the beam throw or deterioration in beam quality? Irrespective of that I can see these spots can be quite an eyesore - something you can't "un-see".

[knrn]

These marks occur due to heating and cooling of the glass. The insides of the glass is in constant heat of the bulbs while the outside continues to Cool due the exposure of blowing wind by driving or splashes of water. Particularly in warmer areas of country with frequent rains.
Have the same in my car.
Got the same reply from company that it's externally generated.

Tried the famous toothpaste application technique where one rubs Colgate over the entire light and then washes it off scrubbing with a tooth brush. Let me just say that 70% of the problem washed off. This the problem with these crystalline lenses. They are not glass. They are some kind of polyvinyl compound with inadequate heat dispersion and hence more prone for these defects. Look around and you will find them in many cars.
The problem is that they will be replaced as a complete headlight unit which is expensive and hence the company wants to shy away. Anyways I am sorry to see the state you are in. Sad to see your beautiful steed suffering. Let's hope the matter gets resolved.

[ASP007]

Dear Captain,

I do not own a Bimmer. However, the mentioned crystallization or the spots are indeed cropped up from inside of the assembly, your warranty claim should be honoured. At least they should have offered to borne the part cost, and the labour charges are on the consumer. I had seen similar things on many three wheeler's windshield. That might be due to age and continuous parking under hot sun, but not from a premium vehicle which costs a good fortune. Hope this will get resolved amicably.

[CalmConquests]

I've owned & driven two BMWs over the last 7-8 years (BMW X6 & BMW 530d F10). I've never had such a problem with either of my cars (my X6 is over 10 years old now).

Further, between the three German brands (Audi , Mercedes & BMW), I've always felt my BMWs have been the most reliable. Even warranty claims during the warranty period had been hassle-free.