[CaptCarrot]

I am a new member and this is my first post ever and it rather saddens me that this is on a topic which has gone away from cars into the territory of culture wars.

It is surprising to me that a forum like team-bhp (which by the very nature of India's economic structure is bound to be majorly filled with elites and people from an above average household) has so many people clamouring about equality without realising that equality is a pipe dream without equity.

It goes to show that with all the progress, education and information availability on our fingers the fundamental problem on equal participation of women in society has not changed. In fact, to me it seems that the success that exceptional women have had in some specific has led to a general feeling in the upper strata of society that the entire country / world has broken free from age old prejudices and moved into a new era.

The reality is that across the world (even in western countries) women continue to face challenges when they go out in the world. To all the age old problems of misogyny, we have now added a new dimension in the form of false the narrative that women are fully empowered and only being held back because they are not able / willing to compete on equal terms.

@rnkgrg - Your explanation strikes at the heart of the matter and explains equity vs equality really well. Hats off!

I would just add another perspective that we (men) are completely unaware / unused to..every women I know in any role (sis, cousin, friend, partner, etc.) if they have stepped out of the house has been harassed in some way or the other at some point. And this is not something that is unique, this happens on a regular basis to a large part our country's population and its considered a part of life. The fact that women consider this a part of life left me aghast the first time I realised it. Our public spaces are overtly and covertly hostile to every female who steps out of house whether we realise it or not.

While I agree that most of what for-profit companies do in the name of ESG, etc. is done with one eye on RoI, each of these initiatives normalises women doing new things which have always had a glass ceiling. If that contributes to creating a more equitable (not equal) world, I am all for such initiatives.

[tilt]

Originally Posted by brohanv

While t-bhp stands by a non-political stance, it is important to understand that any fair society in the world should value equity over equality. *SNIP*

Originally Posted by rnkgrg

To all the men here, I request you all, very respectfully, to kindly get a basic understanding of equity, affirmative action and the likes before crying foul.

*SNIP*

This piques my interest.

RNKGARG, it is indeed possible that I do not possess the basic understanding of equity in relation to equality. Would you maybe kindly explain to me, maybe with some examples?

I did go through the situations you had provided, especially the MNC Project one, but I still fail to see the issue. both (in my opinion) were provided the equal opportunity; but only one took advantage of the opportunity while the other did (or could) not.

However, after all that your conclusion seems to be (please correct me if I am wrong) that the woman should have been promoted instead.

To me, that seems like expecting equality of outcome rather than equality of opportunity.

If the exact same scenario you outlined were between you and me (BOTH MALE I PRESUME); would you accept my being promoted over you when you did all the needed work just because I claimed I had two small children at home to take care of or that I lived alone and needed to cook dinner for myself?

Or if it were two women vying for the same promotion, which one would you be rooting for?

BROHANV, My opinion differs from yours completely. I opine that equality of opportunity should be provided and not equality of outcome.

Cheers

[theqca]

I look at this as a marketing gimmick which might backfire or run out of steam.

I'm surprised they feel there is a "need" for an all women outlet.
It make me wonder if there is a lack of an all-inclusive approach at their other showrooms?

[DigitalOne]

There are two strategies that VW could have taken to improve women's representation in the workforce.

The first is to have a stated goal of having x% of women in all roles/positions at all locations within a defined time, and cascade down this goal to every manager/dealer. This would ensure that every manager/dealer consciously attempts to hire x% percentage of women, makes the workplace safer , plans projects such that every Shwetha and/or Rishabh never have to work late, gives specialised training if required for women, plans for creches and so on.

This is sustained hard work over many years.

The other is the tokenism way. Now VW executives and other dealers have got a free pass not to implement any of the above. They have got their free publicity, and ESG points. Any woman employee who complains about unfair or unsafe working environment in other dealerships would be told to transfer to the all-women dealership. Subconsciously (and i would be very happy to be proven otherwise) the KPIs would be lowered for the all-women dealership vis-a-vis other dealerships. Will not be surprised if the dealership closes in a few years (again will be happy to be proven otherwise).

Quite a regressive step, in my humble opinion.

[Turbohead]

But why Coimbatore of all places? Are there so many women entrepreneurs there? I thought Bangalore would be more of an ideal place considering the notion that many women are working in well paid sectors there.

[tilt]

Originally Posted by Turbohead

But why Coimbatore of all places? Are there so many women entrepreneurs there? I thought Bangalore would be more of an ideal place considering the notion that many women are working in well paid sectors there.

well, I am guessing no one in bangalore had this brilliant idea.

Cheers

[Arun Varma]

I see this as a welcome albeit small move to overcome many of the socio economic drawbacks that women still have in our society.

Equity vs equality (or equality of outcome vs opportunity) is a valid argument but only when the capitalisation of opportunity is deemed equal for both the groups in question. In the case of men vs women, it still isn't, at least in that economic strata. Many social well being indicators will note that the quality of society is contingent on women being educated and able to fend for themselves financially. All women enterprises removes or at the least, eases some of the barriers they have to overcome in order to work.

For those who continue to argue that we are an equitable society already, please work with your corporate social outreach partners in your organisations (for those who work in corporates and have a CSR requirement), and you will see how unequal women still are in our society. Initiatives like these are a mere drop in the ocean and is by no means a threat to usurp the opportunities available to men. If anything we need a lot more of these initiatives. I hope they sustain it.

I would suggest we introspect whether this outpouring of angst against these initiatives are stemming from misogyny disguised as outrage against misandry! At the very least, it is ill-informed!

[tilt]

Originally Posted by Arun Varma

*SNIP*

I would suggest we introspect whether this outpouring of angst against these initiatives are stemming from misogyny disguised as outrage against misandry! At the very least, it is ill-informed!

I don't know if the word means what you think it means.

Cheers