[speedzak]

Originally Posted by aravindwarrier

3. I don't feel that munneem here has committed any offence driving a random car upto 165 ks. I Suppose this is an automotive forum,and that is what guys like us do when we get chances like that. I believe that the damage caused to the engine/drivetrain/entire car was well worth the experience. I am no M K Ghandhi, when it comes to having a bit of harmless fun, and seriously if you want to find fault, you can find them on any one.

Agree!
What is happening here is that the whole lot of mistakes and all the dubious nature of the dealer and the manufacturer is being covered up by Muneem's crime of driving a powerful car given to him by his company for demo purposes. Pathetic!

Originally Posted by aravindwarrier

The kind of personal attack he received here for something of his own admission [he could have very well hidden this detail] is no way warranted.

Agree!
Some personal attacks were very serious and I would've not been able to contain myself if I was in Muneem's place.
I doubt if all the personal attacks and unwanted fan club and anti club discussions would take away the real use of this thread. ie: warning prospective car buyers of possible malpractices that may happen at car dealerships and the attitude of car manufacturers on these kinda issues.

Originally Posted by aravindwarrier

Now what intend here is that everybody who sells, do sell lemons ocassionally.That is inevitable.

Absolutely! As a businessman myself, I should confess that even my company ends up with some unhappy customers due to our mistakes. Sometimes, we may also push products which have small defects which maybe very big from a customer point of view. Occasionally, lemons do slip thru any strict quality checks. This is very much inevitable thru out the world.

Originally Posted by aravindwarrier

What really matters here is the amount of DAMAGE CONTROL that is done in such cases, and also the FREQUENCY at which lemons are being sold.
Imho, the former depends on the company's marketing policy, and the latter on production quality.

Damage control is the most important aspect of any company/business. If it's not done possibly in the best manner, then any good product/brand/company/business will turn out to be a failure.
Frequency of damage is also something very very important to be kept under check. Any good product can turn out to catch a bad name if this department goes on fishing to antartica!

Originally Posted by aravindwarrier

While the information provided here by muneemk is not sufficient enough to conclude that FIAT produces cars of inconsistent quality, however, it is seen that once such a thing happens, little is done by way of damage control.

Agree! It's been a long while and if FiAT doesn't change it's attitude on the above, it may better pack up or get packed up soon.

Originally Posted by aravindwarrier

Hence i am inclined to conclude that FIAT Management,ie sales/marketing is to be blamed.

Huh! Don't you know there's a scapegoat on the internet to blame all the misdoings of FiAT upon?
It's known as Tata!
I seriously think Tata made a big mistake by accepting FiAT's deal to help them out in India.
FiAT management, marketing department are very much the biggest culprit in taking their company to the pathetic condition they are now trapped in.

[gemithomas]

What are we actually trying discuss / Prove here? Is there something that can be done. Atleast something small but that makes these manufacturers and dealers know that we cant be taken for a ride.

If we just keep accusing and saving people this thread is gonna loose its "hotness".

[prateekswarup]

My 2 cents....

Firstly, hats off to Muneem to bringing us the true picture of the dealership in question.

Secondly, the dealership, the manufacturer and even the sales staff are responsible for the crummy situation that Muneem has put forward.

However, the big question is how do we stop such future acts of selling lemons, bad service and improper test cars?

A few suggestions:

1. The manufacturer ensures that it provides a test/demo car in all dealerships. If it cannot do that, then it should provide some kind of seal on the odometer cable that will immediately let the buyer know whether it has been tampered with or not.

2. A checklist should be given with every vehicle letting a customer know what quality checks to carry out in a car so that he/she is ensured that the vehicle being purchased is brand new and not mis-used before delivery.

3. An independent open portal taking feedback for each test drive, dealer experience as well as sales experience should be made mandatory by the manufacturer so that customers can give in their honest feedback and rating for each dealer. This feedback should be analysed and taken into account by the manufacturer.

4. We as a people should refuse to test drive a car which is not an authorized demo vehicle. Our stand will force the dealer or manufacturer to take necesary steps to provide for better test experience.

These are some of the points which I believe can safeguard the buying experience. Many manufacturers may be already implementing the above points or more and those which have not yet, should start.

Any further pointers are welcome

[supremeBaleno]

Originally Posted by ms001

I totally get your point , but as the title of the thread suggests we are discussing about FIAT "mis"handling right? Thats why i added the so called F word.

Well, that belief is the problem. It is just incidental that the dealer in question happens to be Tata/Fiat. muneem happened to be working there and thus his experience.

Originally Posted by finneyp

SupBaleno, please stop playing a peacemaker on all threads with 'F' word!.

Huh!! If you see a valid reason to disagree with what I said, please pen them down. But please do not take it upon yourself to advice me as to what I should or should not do. I am competent enough to make my own decisions. Thank you.

Originally Posted by finneyp

Backseatdriver was indirectly referring to Fiat, unless you thought it was Tata or Maruti.

He was mentioning in general. Just that his post happened to be in a thread that was about the dirty practices of a Fiat dealer - so you made the connection. Oh, BTW, I wouldn't relate such practices with Maruti anyway.

Originally Posted by phamilyman

They normally have ZERO control on the dealers.

Sorry, man. Have to disagree with you on this. You might be right about people with black money getting dealerships - I have no idea about that. But you are wrong when you say that MSIL does not have any control on their dealers. From my personal experience as a customer and via a close friend who owns a MASS, I know that the dealer does not have a free run.

Originally Posted by aravindwarrier

I was getting a bit bored off late with Team BHP, and now this thread has rekindled my interest.
Sorry guys for the rather long post, the actual reason is that i've got nothing else to do which is worthwhile.

Really nice post, aravind.

[gemithomas]

Do agree with you. It needs to be a collective effort.

Originally Posted by prateekswarup

My 2 cents....

Firstly, hats off to Muneem to bringing us the true picture of the dealership in question.

Secondly, the dealership, the manufacturer and even the sales staff are responsible for the crummy situation that Muneem has put forward.

However, the big question is how do we stop such future acts of selling lemons, bad service and improper test cars?

A few suggestions:

1. The manufacturer ensures that it provides a test/demo car in all dealerships. If it cannot do that, then it should provide some kind of seal on the odometer cable that will immediately let the buyer know whether it has been tampered with or not.

Most manufacturers give designated test drive vehicles now. But the dealers use them for their daily chores and give the customers new cars so that they dont experience how bad an old car (after so much km of running) would feel. They always want the customer to be lured by the "new" feel. The only dealer i have seen in tvm is the Toyota dealer who gives a >35k Km run innova for test drive


2. A checklist should be given with every vehicle letting a customer know what quality checks to carry out in a car so that he/she is ensured that the vehicle being purchased is brand new and not mis-used before delivery.

MOst or even almost all aspects are covered in the t-bhp checklist.

3. An independent open portal taking feedback for each test drive, dealer experience as well as sales experience should be made mandatory by the manufacturer so that customers can give in their honest feedback and rating for each dealer. This feedback should be analysed and taken into account by the manufacturer.

Good idea.

4. We as a people should refuse to test drive a car which is not an authorized demo vehicle. Our stand will force the dealer or manufacturer to take necesary steps to provide for better test experience.

But i think there will still be a majority out there who would not bother and its only us who choose not to drive who would be the loosers.

These are some of the points which I believe can safeguard the buying experience. Many manufacturers may be already implementing the above points or more and those which have not yet, should start.

Any further pointers are welcome

I think there should be a legislation in ensuring the rights of a car buyer. These guys should be penalized "fast enough" for taking customers for a ride. We could even think of a collective forum who could take up such issues for the affected customer. These forums could also think of rewarding sales executives who come out with such malpractices.

[amit]

I have to say that I had gone to Ratan Motor's Chembur for a TD of the SX4. Their demo car had gotten into a major accident with airbags inflating and all. The car was in really bad shape. It was rattling all over and the car needed a alignment job asap. The dealership told me that they would have a new demo car by next week and I could come back for a TD then. Even when I insisted on TD'ing a SX4 they gave me the demo car to drive asking me not to form any opinion or take any decision based on driving that car. They could have easily given me a brand new car for TD saying that the demo was in bad shape but they didn't.

Any they called me about 10 days later asking me to come back for a TD as they now had a brand new demo car avaliable.

[Rahulkool]

Originally Posted by amit

I have to say that I had gone to Ratan Motor's Chembur for a TD of the SX4. Their demo car had gotten into a major accident with airbags inflating and all. The car was in really bad shape. It was rattling all over and the car needed a alignment job asap. The dealership told me that they would have a new demo car by next week and I could come back for a TD then. Even when I insisted on TD'ing a SX4 they gave me the demo car to drive asking me not to form any opinion or take any decision based on driving that car. They could have easily given me a brand new car for TD saying that the demo was in bad shape but they didn't.

Any they called me about 10 days later asking me to come back for a TD as they now had a brand new demo car avaliable.

few days back i got a TD in brand new Dezire ZDi ....... it depends upon dealer to dealer, when i bought my 1.6 i was refused for TD even when a red palio 1.6 was parked in the showroom for past 2 months because of some problem with payment, the sales person simply refused to give me TD and told me that because of low sales of 1.6 they don't have TD vehicle ......

[Smooth Sailing]

Hi Rahul. Could you please share the name of this dealer. Reason being i bought a Dzire VDI in June and later noticed a couple of dents on the bonnet which were well concealed inspite of doing a PDI at the showroom before the car went for registration. Tried to do a PDI earlier at their yard but they refused saying that they do not allow anyone in at their yard and that they would bring the car to the showroom. Its another thing that i managed to get access into their yard on a sunday afternoon by cajoling the security guards but i could not spend much time with her as the security fellas were on tenterhooks that they would get caught. I have this strange kinda feeling that all was not right and maybe just maybe that she could have been used earlier as well for other / Demo runs. Maybe you could PM me if you dont want to put down the dealer's name here. Thanks.

Originally Posted by Rahulkool

few days back i got a TD in brand new Dezire ZDi ....... it depends upon dealer to dealer, when i bought my 1.6 i was refused for TD even when a red palio 1.6 was parked in the showroom for past 2 months because of some problem with payment, the sales person simply refused to give me TD and told me that because of low sales of 1.6 they don't have TD vehicle ......

[nikkibike]

haaha! let it be Tata, Fiat, Suzuki, Ford, etc etc... the main requirement from a customer point of view is credibility! and that counts very much in India. Product Quality, Sales Strategy and After Sales Service are the factors which supports that word!

Here the subject is about a dealership which is practising the worst business ethics and customer relations. Boyy.. no BRAND will support sales in that kinda circumstances.

I too have had some very bad experiences with the same dealership. That was when I gave my Indica for 1 lakh kms service there.. well... i will stop here as that episode cannot be narrated here.. so worse..

[greenhorn]

its things like these which make us tata owners feel good

I mean, tata is bad, but We rest content knowing that it could have been worse

[carfreak]

Originally Posted by speedzak

FiAT management, marketing department are very much the biggest culprit in taking their company to the pathetic condition they are now trapped in.

Very true!!but dont blame the car!!(i am not saying you did,but other who do)i have had my fair share of problems with the palio which you are very much aware of but still i stand by it!!because of the thrill it gives each time i drive it!!

@tadukuttan, sorry had been bit busy so could not reply.regarding the technological innovations i was talking about,its off topic here,but there are many threads which discuss it in detail.please refer to it.some of those have been already told.and fuel efficiency cannot be directly related to technology.if you fit a honda city engine in a truck i want to see the FE.the palio is a very heavy car-heavier than the baleno due to many other reasons.whatever,my point is the car is a good one though the service was bad.more than that would be off topic.

@steer, i didnt catch the humour in the post stating how the palio doors close, but with what sound does your fiat doors close?

anyway,this thread has once again become a pro-fiat vs anti-fiat thread.sad to see that in a forum which should have opinions without bias.

[aravindwarrier]

Originally Posted by speedzak

Agree!
It's been a long while and if FiAT doesn't change it's attitude on the above, it may better pack up or get packed up soon.

This, perhaps is the most repeated statement in this forum. I sincerely hope that the message has reached the right ears and by the launch of linea, they start to mend all their past follies [PS- I read somewhere today that linea parts are being subsidized to the tune of 40 percent to keep it competitive. I am yet to figure out if that is a good sign or a bad one ]

BTW thank u zak for ur agreement with my POV. I appreciate that.

Originally Posted by speedzak

Huh! Don't you know there's a scapegoat on the internet to blame all the misdoings of FiAT upon?
It's known as Tata!
I seriously think Tata made a big mistake by accepting FiAT's deal to help them out in India.
FiAT management, marketing department are very much the biggest culprit in taking their company to the pathetic condition they are now trapped in.

While there may be an element of truth in what you have said here, but I am not clear as to who are really paying for the blunders committed by FIAT/TATA.

For example, earlier there was only one FIAT A.S.S owned by TVS in EKM to service FIAT cars, but atleast they seemed to know their job. And some of the mechanics were trained by FIAT and knowledgeable about this rare breed of vehicles. Now we have two TATA-FIAT dealers, who are absolutely clueless about how to approach any complaints. I WOULDN'T CALL THAT A HELP AS FAR AS FIAT/CUSTOMER IS CONCERNED.
And as far as sales is concerned, i do not know how much of a control could be exerted by FIAT over a dealership, which essentially BELONG TO TATA. I mean, can FIAT penalize a TATA dealer on the basis of a customer complaint/ some body pls enlighten me on this [i am assuming here that the agreement that FIAT has with TATA over their dealerships might be thoroughly skewed towards TATA retaining the overall administrative control and punitive authority]
So i am not under the impression that fiat basically profited from this partnership anywhre. And moreover, TATA must have got a great deal of money and not to mention access to the FIAT technology in barter, so drawing the flak in an internet forum is hardly going to cost TATA dearly.They made a smart move, and this association is, by no means , a mistake as far as TATA Is concerned.


My FINAL thoughts on this whole issue goes like this;
The really incompetent and clueless marketing/management team of FIAT resulted in bad sales despite having a brilliant produt, which was well-received in the beginning.Their ineptness was evident right from the very beginnig, from their choice of distributorships to the way they managed to run them. All this resulting in loss of customer confidence.
In a frantic step to revive the brand once again and redeem them from the ghosts of their past mistakes, they chose to dump all their old dealers and tied up with TATA to manage their SSS [may be thinking that if it could work for indica, it could work for palio too].
This has ultimately proved even more futile, as we all can see now.TATA Dealers are happy selling their own vehicles, and they are rather reluctant to deal with this failed brand that is FIAT and in turn gives is a dark corner in the far end of the showroom.
NOW, on the other hand,this raises another valid question that why FIAT cant setup a new network of fresh dealerships across the contry.And my answer to that would be an emphatic NO, because no sensible entreprenuer would risk money to the tune of 20 crore or more to start a venture with no guarantee as such, and so poor a track record. So ultimately we can see that FIAT had no other option but share existing TATA dealerships. In otherwords, they were forced to make this alliance in light of their past blunders in sales and marketing end even now they have no brighter options other than to continue this rather unhappy marriage.
In my opinion, FIAT IS GOING TO FAIL ONCE AGAIN IN MAKING THE DEALERHIPS SELL AND SERVICE THEIR CARS TO THEIR CUSTOMERS' SATISFACTION if they are to continue the existing set up.The best option in front of them now is to wind up their sales and marketing operations in this country and pack them home, and let TATA [ or any other brand that can command credibility among indian car buying public] do the branding/marketing/sales, that way ensuring that both the conventional handicaps [namely the ghost of the past, and step-mother attitude by the dealers] currently faced are eliminated.

In this way TATA can take the finished puntos/palios from fiat and brand it as the new indica-pasta or something similar so that they retain a bit of the italian flavour in the process of getting indigenised.There would be a lot of people who'd try buying a punto over an indica if both are backed by the same level of service guarantee and committment.

Sorry to go off topic, but If i do sound a bit crazy to you guys, it may be because I am

Originally Posted by supremeBaleno

Really nice post, aravind.

Thank you SB.I value your appreciation.

Originally Posted by gemithomas

I think there should be a legislation in ensuring the rights of a car buyer.

More legislation will definitley help matters, but it might take a long, long time .I dont think 'ensuring the rights of a car buyer' is among the list of top priorities of our legislators,and at the risk of being misconstrued as a pessimist, i'd say that, 'increasing the headaches of a car owner' is definitley up there in their top ten.More legislation is not going to resolve the issue, at least not untill the coming few decades.More so, because i don't think there are any serious flaws with the existing consumer legislation other than the inordinate legal delay [i mean they still sell lemons in those developed countries, where there are no dearth of consumer protection. While i agree that they are better off than we are, but it may take us many years to reach that thru legislation]

Originally Posted by gemithomas

These guys should be penalized "fast enough" for taking customers for a ride. We could even think of a collective forum who could take up such issues for the affected customer. These forums could also think of rewarding sales executives who come out with such malpractices.

The question is, who is going to bell the cat, and how/ I like what Autocar india does sometimes for the good of the customer, but then there are many cases wher they are simply not able to make the manufacturer own up their mistakes.
Hence, an independed forum might find it even more difficult to do so. Just take this forum as an example, other than making the customer aware of the pitfalls and enabling them to watch their backs, what more could be done here/

Rewarding the 'whistle-blowers' could be such a bad idea.You can see yourselfn how munnem has been 'rewarded' for coming out with malpractices. And judjing by this example, how many more do you think , is going to take this route. No sane man would be willing to sacrifice their sole means of livelihood just for the sake of a reward from some random consumer-forum.

Originally Posted by nikkibike

haaha! let it be Tata, Fiat, Suzuki, Ford, etc etc... the main requirement from a customer point of view is credibility! and that counts very much in India. Product Quality, Sales Strategy and After Sales Service are the factors which supports that word!

... And[ allow me to add a line of mine to this post;apologies for the freedom taken, nikki] if the manufacturer is not able to ensure the credibility, let them handover the whole business to somebody who can deliver.

Originally Posted by nikkibike

Here the subject is about a dealership which is practising the worst business ethics and customer relations. Boyy.. no BRAND will support sales in that kinda circumstances.

One quick example that is coming to my mind is that of AKKARA CAR COMPANY, ex-dealers for maruti at TCR, i dont know the exact story but afaik, it was shut down largley due to customer outcry . Can anyone in the know point out how they discipline AUTO-DEALERS/ are there any sort of MARKETING DISCIPLINE GUIDELINES in the auto industry like what we have in the oil industry/

Originally Posted by nikkibike

I too have had some very bad experiences with the same dealership. That was when I gave my Indica for 1 lakh kms service there.. well... i will stop here as that episode cannot be narrated here.. so worse..

He... he.. no surprises here. i guess we should jointly author that new thread dedicated for the 'OUT OF THE WORLD SERVICE' BY RF MOTORS.


I have outdone myself once again as far as the length of the post goes. Sorry guys if im just adding to the crap, in that case, let me know and i'd restrain myself from posting my views further

[speedzak]

Originally Posted by aravindwarrier

In my opinion, FIAT IS GOING TO FAIL ONCE AGAIN IN MAKING THE DEALERHIPS SELL AND SERVICE THEIR CARS TO THEIR CUSTOMERS' SATISFACTION if they are to continue the existing set up.

And the current way of operation/inaction.
FiAT should have some sort of control over the dealers/people who sell their products. If they have no control over their products, dealers, sales, service etc.. why keep the tainted name alive?

Originally Posted by aravindwarrier

The best option in front of them now is to wind up their sales and marketing operations in this country and pack them home, and let TATA or any other brand that can command credibility among indian car buying public do the branding/marketing/sales, that way ensuring that both the conventional handicaps [namely the ghost of the past, and step-mother attitude by the dealers] currently faced are eliminated.

Undoubtedly, The best way ahead for FiAT.

How about making it sell under Maruti name? I think it will become one of the best sellers in no time.

And FiAT can step back in when the bad name vanishes and a new image has been recreated.

Originally Posted by aravindwarrier

In this way TATA can take the finished puntos/palios from fiat and brand it as the new indica-pasta or something similar so that they retain a bit of the italian flavour in the process of getting indigenised.There would be a lot of people who'd try buying a punto over an indica if both are backed by the same level of service guarantee and committment.

Agree!
That's what is lacking now in FiAT cars which are parked for months waiting customers in various Tata showrooms.
Drop the FiAT name and see how they'll vanish!

Originally Posted by aravindwarrier

Sorry to go off topic, but If i do sound a bit crazy to you guys, it may be because I am

To excel, sometimes one has to do crazy things. Nice thoughts. Makes lots of sense!

Originally Posted by aravindwarrier

Just take this forum as an example, other than making the customer aware of the pitfalls and enabling them to watch their backs, what more could be done here/

Don't you think that alone is a very big achievement?
Other than a few blind FiAT lovers, many have learnt a lot from this thread and I'm sure they'll pass on the good message to their friends, relatives. According to my thinking, this thread was a great eye opener and a good revelation to those who wants to take heed.
Many have saved all the pages of this thread for future reference. That tells a lot!
It's a big achievement.

Originally Posted by aravindwarrier

Rewarding the 'whistle-blowers' could be such a bad idea.You can see yourself how munnem has been 'rewarded' for coming out with malpractices. And judging by this example, how many more do you think , is going to take this route.

This was a very condemnable act. Very immature and no foresight whatsoever! Sad.

Hope our senses prevail for good next time if a similar thread is posted here.

Originally Posted by aravindwarrier

I have outdone myself once again as far as the length of the post goes. Sorry guys if im just adding to the crap, in that case, let me know and i'd restrain myself from posting my views further

I don't think this is all crap! There're lots of useful information and some unwanted ego clashes in this thread.
Don't count it as crap. I would rate it 5 star!

And YOU........ should continue. Somebody has finally started putting down some meaningful things out of this whole episode. Hope more sensible and understanding posts come forward.

[m_upreti]

This thread started with the real life inside view of what goes inside a dealership, I have had friends and relatives working in dealerships and each day in the evening there is a new car or bike parked in front of the house, the customer ultimately gets a raw deal when he is getting a vehicle which is already run a part of its run in period & who knows how much abused.
During my first car purchase my friend who had an inside knowledge of the dealership told me not to buy a certain lot of cars and we wre actually at the stockyard when my car was delivered from the factory.
I followed pretty much the same procedure with my second car and ensured that the dealer was aware that I would pop in any time to take the delivery.

As far as Tata-Fiat goes, lets give them another chance, specially Fiat who is trying to raise itself from dust in India, they have given us at least a couple of excellent card in the past (1100D, Palio), let them prove themselves with the Linea, again the differentiating factor will be the A.S.S., when a company is selling a car it is making a long term relationship with a customer, their responsibility to the consumer increases manifold after sales.

In today's scenario Tata-Fiat should realise that the customer is much more aware of his rights and cannot be taken for a ride. I wish all the best to Tata-Fiat & Linea..Happy Sales & Service

Originally Posted by speedzak

And the current way of operation/inaction.
FiAT should have some sort of control over the dealers/people who sell their products. If they have no control over their products, dealers, sales, service etc.. why keep the tainted name alive?
Undoubtedly, The best way ahead for FiAT.
How about making it sell under Maruti name? I think it will become one of the best sellers in no time.
And FiAT can step back in when the bad name vanishes and a new image has been recreated.
Agree!
That's what is lacking now in FiAT cars which are parked for months waiting customers in various Tata showrooms.
Drop the FiAT name and see how they'll vanish!
To excel, sometimes one has to do crazy things. Nice thoughts. Makes lots of sense!
Don't you think that alone is a very big achievement?
Other than a few blind FiAT lovers, many have learnt a lot from this thread and I'm sure they'll pass on the good message to their friends, relatives. According to my thinking, this thread was a great eye opener and a good revelation to those who wants to take heed.
Many have saved all the pages of this thread for future reference. That tells a lot!
It's a big achievement.
This was a very condemnable act. Very immature and no foresight whatsoever! Sad.
Hope our senses prevail for good next time if a similar thread is posted here.
I don't think this is all crap! There're lots of useful information and some unwanted ego clashes in this thread.
Don't count it as crap. I would rate it 5 star!
And YOU........ should continue. Somebody has finally started putting down some meaningful things out of this whole episode. Hope more sensible and understanding posts come forward.

[ms001]

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/849691-post66.html

This is something I learnt, thought may be helpful to all you guys.

1) The manufacturer rolls out the car and immediately invoices the dealer before it goes to his parking Yard. 1st Owner responsibility - Dealer
Note - The manufacturer never owns responsibility of a car that is invoiced on a dealer name.

2) Car lies in the yard (owner - dealer) then ships it onto a truck to his place anywhere in India - Insurance responsibility - still the dealer headache.

3) Car comes to dealers parking yard - still his problem. The minute the new Owner OK's the purchase - The sale invoice means that the new owner bears all the headache hence forth. Of course - this step happens ONLY after the dealer REALIZES the money (Loan/Cash/Cheque).

4) Next step is the sale invoice copy and chassis# and engine# goes to the insurance person and the cover note is generated.

5) Then with the invoice in triplicate (3 copies) and 1 insurance cover note copy, and the ONE sale certificate from the maker - the car enters the local RTO- to either get a 30days TR Temp Regn - OR - a permanent regn. TR costs as little as 1K for a CS TDI class, may be around 3-4K max-max for a BIG sedan/SUV.

------Why all this story------

Well, I learnt one thing from this, any automobile in India can be regd ONLY once with the sale cert from the maker - Meaning - Any car you see in a showroom as a TR Regn should be already registered as a SHOWROOM OWNED car, and then its upto the 'showroom' owner to re-regd it as TR or a perm#.

Point is - There is only ONE way a Test Drive Car ends up as a "new" car in a hands of a un-suspecting owner - Major FRAUD - Of not TR regd a new car in the name of the showroom - just using it around without connecting the speedo - WITHOUT INSURING IT - (one who doesnot want to own it as TD car will NOT insure it).

-------where am I going with all this??-------

Remember Sunson(I think) who got roughed up by a bangalore crowd after the SX4 BIMAL crash???

MOST LIKELY that SX4 did not have a TR nor a Insurance!!! May be thats why the Showroom was so ROWDY with him!!

-------MORAL --------

All you Pian's - PLZ PLZ Make sure you ask for the TR copy and the Insurance Copy of the TD car before taking it for a spin - Most likely you wont see one, then exercise caution before rippin' er' out.
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