[ms001]

Originally Posted by finneyp

This thread deserved to be junked!

Why?
When a Fiat-Tata dealer & its employees do malpractice, blame Fiat!
And when other Car dealers commit the same fraud, blame the dealer & the company gets absolved of all wrong doings.
Purely, double standards here.

And this insider's story has lost all its credibility since the insider himself was part of the crime!

I totally agree , just because one dealer/sales team , was involved in wrong doing , why are we blaming the company for it?
Instead of pointing fingers to the company , we must identify the culprits aka the dealer/sales here.

Originally Posted by muneemmk

The Biggest Technology that I know of in the palio was the Aircraft Technology®

When the car is started, it makes noises like a Helicopter Taking off and then the engine cooling fan starts working and then the whole area is in a dust storm. that is Aircraft Technology®.
I hope everyone knows about this technology right ?

I am sorry but this is not funny, you seem to be very very ignorant W.R.T. technology despite being a part of The now famous dealership you had worked for.
If you are mot aware of the technology please do not dirty the thread, if it already isn't with such thoughtful statements.

[RX135]

Originally Posted by tadukuttan

It only attracted a handful of enthusiasts, like us. It's biggest drawback with "technology ahead of it's time" for the general car buying public was that it was also a fuel guzzler. I still remember a trip in a friends car where the car was giving something near 6-7 kmpl. For that kind of mileage, I would rather be seeing 200 bhp from the engine, not 100.

Funny world, isn't it? You first ask what was technology in GTX which was ahead of time. You get a technical response (and some not-so-funny non-technical comments) and then you start talking about how it was fuel guzzler. Anyway, this whole discussion is completely off topic on this thread about Muneem's experience.

And for the sake of record, I am yet to come across a GTX owner (and I do know a few GTX/S10 owners, not just "a friend"), who got 6-7 kmpl. Also, by the way, I have been driving Petra 1.6L since last 4 years, which has exactly same engine as GTX and 50 kg heavier and not a single time in last 4 years, the FE dropped below 10.

It's perfectly fine that you don't like Fiat and its cars, but stop generalizing your one-off experiences.

Originally Posted by muneemmk

When the car is started, it makes noises like a Helicopter Taking off and then the engine cooling fan starts working and then the whole area is in a dust storm. that is Aircraft Technology®.

I sincerely hope that, you have seen and heard a helicopter taking off before going on with this comparison Same goes about a dust storm. So you earlier loved Fiat cars, which sounded like racket (or far worse than that) and raised dust storms? I am bit surprised because I wouldn't.

[hydrashok]

Thanks for being honest about the whole thing, Muneem. I think the most of us already know that things are like this at most dealerships. But hearing it from somebody who worked in a dealership, and hearing the uh, gory details, does make the truth feel a lot more uncomfortable.

I wish there were some way somebody (the manufacturer or the customer) could be totally sure that the car being delivered has not been messed with. I doubt if any dealer pays attention enough to see that cars being delivered are not being abused. I doubt if the manufacturers could station a representative at each dealership to see that the cars delivered to customers are not abused.

While driving back to Kochi from Trivandrum last week, I came across 2 Santros with Temporary plates (one grey, one white) being driven towards Kochi. They were probebly being delivered to another dealer somewhere along thye line. The cars were being ripped without any heed for the breaking in period. They overtook me twice, even when I was doing 100.

Buyers beware.

[ImmortalZ]

Originally Posted by finneyp

And this insider's story has lost all its credibility since the insider himself was part of the crime!

There are witnesses who agree to testify in a crime in exchange for a lighter sentence for being involved in said crime. They are called "maapu saakshi" in Malayalam and I don't know the correct legal terminology for it in English.

By your incredible reasoning, legal proceedings in the whole world are wrong!

Some whistle blowers in the pages of history have been complicit in the crimes and affairs they later brought to the public light. That didn't mean their actions were ignored.

[amit]

Originally Posted by RX135

I am yet to come across a GTX owner (and I do know a few GTX/S10 owners, not just "a friend"), who got 6-7 kmpl.

I agree. This made me refer to my excel sheet on my S10's mileage. Currently, I have records from October 2006. The worst mileage is in my Palio's review thread. The best I have got was on 22/12/06 on a trip to Nashik/Shirdi and back. 4 people on board (6 from Shirdi to Nashik), A/c working most of the time. 18.67kmpl.

[supremeBaleno]

I think it was pretty brave of muneem to pen down his work experience and the travails that were part of his time there. Gives us some insight into what goes on at dealerships. In this case, it happened to be a Tata-Fiat dealership, but that does not mean such stuff does not ever happen at other manufacturer dealerships.

A dealership is a private company run with the intent to generate maximum profit - can't blame them for that. And unless the manufacturer has in place processes within which the dealers are supposed to run the show, such things are wont to happen. While other manufacturers are going strong and have control over their dealers, Fiat is in a state of disarray (improving though) which could explain why RF is able to get away with all this.

Ofcourse, his ripping a car @ 165kmph when it is supposed to be gracefully run-in was wrong. And IMO pointing that out is not really targetting him personally. He also accepted it as a mistake. So, lets move on from there.

As is the wont with any thread having the F word, we tend to go into a pro-F or anti-F tangent, which is what seems to have happened here also.
While we are going way OT with the FE of 1.6/Petra etc, I feel tadukuttan does have a point about the FE figure he quoted, because many 1.6 owners have reported similar FE on the forum.

Originally Posted by ImmortalZ

There are witnesses who agree to testify in a crime in exchange for a lighter sentence for being involved in said crime. They are called "maapu saakshi" in Malayalam and I don't know the correct legal terminology for it in English.

I think they are called "approvers". As in "turning approver" and getting off with a lesser punishment.

Originally Posted by tadukuttan

Ps. If any body from Fiat is reading, Built Like A Tank® and Doors That Close With A Reassuring Thud® is no longer cool. Steeroid says so. I have nothing to do with it.

[FERRO]

I dont know whats wrong with other Fiat cars but i generally get 16+ on highway & 10+ in city from my siena. Whenever i quote this figure to others they never believe maybe my car is fitted with suzuki engine. Or maybe i got a lemon.

[harishsegar]

I am not surprised by muneemmk's posting. This issue persists in not only auto industry but everywhere. In India we have a tendency to take the customer for a ride and we cut corners when it comes to quality & following rules.

Slightly OT: What i am surprised to see though is the brickbats on the person who wrote this up. Many of you are from different industries and you would be well aware of the issues with your industry. If we open up another thread on practices by each industry, i am sure it would run into pages. Trust me, there are various times i would just fell like going on and on about the unethical practices i encounter in my area of work. Its not different from what i see with the car manufacturers & dealers.

Anyway, the write up is good and it does provide a lot of information from the source directly.

[hrag]

I *thought* FIAT 1.6 petrol engines didn't require any running in. Even the manual says nothing about this, reportedly. Why the fuss then about ripping a new car at 165 kph?

[Lalvaz]

Phamilyman, finneyp, Rx135, ms001 and others who I may have missed.

Whats the point of refuting the comments expressed here?

People who have been brave enough to confess their sins need to be put on a pedestal and hero worshipped.

It does not matter if they have knowingly sold a dud car to an unsuspecting customer.
It does not matter if they have ruined someones car by ripping it during the run in period
It does not matter if they claim to be auto enthusiasts and Fiat salespeople and dont know the pros and cons of a Palio?

For folks who have said that its easy to sit behind a PC and preach ethics, and that the poor bloke was only doing his job and what was he to do if the dealer was bad?
Well, I hope you encounter such poor blokes during your next car purchase, and oh by the way, he's not even poor. Getting a measly 1000 bucks for selling a lemon is not why he did it, he did it cos he is an auto enthusiast.

As regards the technical comment that Palio's cannot have remote locking enabled, well I dont have a Palio myself, but please do a search on Team BHP or Google, and see for yourself. Or see the posts in the link below especially by lightpower.
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/test-d...ml#post1056487

Now, as regards approvers, well, Immortalz, you're absolutely right, Approvers do get a lesser punishment for turning approver and co operating with the law, but you seem to have missed the point. They still do get punished for their wrong doings. They dont get hero worshipped on a pedestal.

Lastly, will some enlightened soul tell me why Fiat is being bashed here on this thread? What wrongdoing did they do in this particular case?

[sandeepmdas]

Muneem, members like you and posts like this makes TBHP what it is...the one and only!

[finneyp]

Originally Posted by hrag

I *thought* FIAT 1.6 petrol engines didn't require any running in.

Hrishi, though modern engines do not need running-in, but Car makers & Automob experts do recommmend running-in for the initial 2K kms atleast.

AFAIK, Palio 1.6 manual has a mention of running-in as well.

And I hope you will NEVER want your brand new Car to be ripped at 165 kph without your knowing!

[grvanand]

Thats right hrag, when I myself took the car to 160 2 days after its delivery, it runs as it should now without any problems, it doesn't call for any run in.

@Tadukuttan, in 2001 when this car was launched, only other 100 BHP car was Honda City which too was in a different catagory of pricing, IMO its too much to expect 200 BHP which even till date, non exotic cars in our country dont possess.

As far as brickbats to thread starter is concerned, muneemmk had asked people not to buy Fiats in this country in another thread if I remember right, probably the issues got mixed up. I feel everyone must consider he worked for a dealership and not FIAL, clarity probably must be given as issues with Fiat dealership and not FIAL.

[deepclutch]

@harishsegar:that is so true.typical cheap mentality -where you crap some one else's property.sad to say- but this thing is the norm in India especially kerala(no offense!).individual staffs cannot be blamed here.the blame must fully goes to fiat india and the dealers like RF.It is their duty to keep the staff in discipline and also to have test drive cars.

OT:the few posts against muneem ripping the palio remembers me some old shashi kapoor movie -kanoon ka haath bahut lambe hei -as if they want to him to be arrested?but no words against fiat or dealer?huh?

[ms001]

Originally Posted by deepclutch

the blame must fully goes to fiat india and the dealers like RF.

Please justify how is FIAT responsible for this?