[Derezzed]

My all new Wagon-R 2010 was due for its 3 yr/30,000 KM service. In what was supposed to be a routine service turned out to be a nightmare for me thanks to incompetent mechanics and SAs from Mahalaxmi Automobiles, Mundhwa, Pune.
So here's how it unfolded:
On July 13 I took my car to my regular service center cum dealer Wonder Cars, Pune, with whom I have never had any issues. Handed over the keys of my car to the SA who told me to collect my car after 5 hours. I took a rick to the nearby INOX and watched a movie. On my way back to the service center, the SA calls me and says that the servicing is complete except for one thing. The oil change !!
He said that they normally change the drain plug along with every oil change and currently they we out of this part for my model Wagon-R. They are about to get the stock in the evening and I could wait till then. I said no to the waiting and that I would take my car as is and get the oil change done the next day.

Instead of driving all the way to the same service center for a 'simple' oil change I decided to drop in at Mahalaxmi Automobiles, Mundhwa, on the way to my office. They are MASS and usually not so busy on weekday mornings.
I reached there before the shutters opened. Fate was about to give me a taste of things to come. Even after the service center opened for business not a single SA was assigned to me. In spite of a simple request for an oil change only, I was told by an SA that it would take 2 hours for this job. He expected me to not know what an engine oil change is and that the entire oil change process for a 1L engine can take only around 15 minutes max. team-bhpians are generally not fools. The attitude of the SA offended me and I complained about the pathetic service I was receiving (not receiving).

I was finally assigned an SA for the oil change job. As luck would have it, it was the same SA I was having trust issues against. Its just a simple oil change I thought and that I could watch the intentions of the SA against my car at all times.

30 mins, 4 mechanics, 2 SAs and the oil drain plug could not be opened. SA told me that he would have to break open the oil sump below the engine as the screw is jammed.
I was shocked to hear this. Even though its not an engine part but technically oil sump is connected to the engine. I was getting late for office and I said I'll get the car next day for this job.
They still charged me for an oil change, including the oil filter minus the oil. Total bill ~Rs. 500/- On being asked why this bill despite nothing being done to my car they said that since anyways I am coming back tomorrow this amount will be adjusted against the next bill. I was not in a mood to argue and wanted to gtfo. Paid the bill and reached office.

I got a call from the Wonder Cars SA (initial servicing) in a couple of hours telling me that they now have the drain plug available for my car and I could come there anytime to get the oil change.
I left early from work that day, drove to Wonder Cars and checked in my car. In 20 mins my car was ready with an oil change with only 1 mechanic working on it. I was next to my car all this time and was amazed and relieved at the same time. No breaking the oil sump as per the pathetic Mahalaxmi guys.

It pains me to see such different levels of service quality in MASSs. Cheap or not Maruti servicing is definitely a case of Shahid Afridi.

[Supercool]

I have a Maruti ritz Ldi and a santro. Service and maintainence cost is more or less same for both cars. I feel maintainence cost of hundai cars is higher as compared to maruti.

[a4anurag]

Originally Posted by Supercool

I have a Maruti ritz Ldi and a santro. Service and maintainence cost is more or less same for both cars. I feel maintainence cost of hundai cars is higher as compared to maruti.

What you say is right!

I have many friends who say the same. Hyundai is definitely costlier than Maruti but I wont say Maruti is dead cheap either but the costs at the end of the day don't make you think that 'Why should I even get it service at the ASC!'

If the car is niggle free and no great problems, then the bill will be low anyway.

Anurag.

[Supercool]

Originally Posted by a4anurag

If the car is niggle free and no great problems, then the bill will be low anyway.

Anurag.

Overall maintainence cost of a maruti diesel car appears to be relatively on higher side. Thats what I have experienced with my ritz in last three and a half years and driving over 62000 kms. Average paid service cost comes to INR 7500. I get it serviced every 6500 to 7000 kms.

[supremeBaleno]

Originally Posted by amitk26

What if I say that service cost of every other car under 8 lakhs is roughly same?

I don't know what that is supposed to indicate because I have read here that a 25L Fortuner costs only 1K or so to service, which I can't really figure out how, given that even the engine-oil for a hatch costs 1K today. But for Maruti cars, the every 20K service is a big thing with all oils & fluids being changed and by today's price for the oils/fluids, I think the 4K that was charged is pretty reasonable. Ofcourse, the other extra/useless stuff that the MASS includes in the service could jack this to 6K or more which is exhorbitant IMO. But then the consumer needs to be careful here.

Originally Posted by amitk26

Going by these yardsticks I would say that 10 lakh rupees Tata Safari is extremely cheap to maintain

I don't know what it costs to service a Safari and maybe it is cheaper than what it costs to service a Swift which costs half the money. But there is a significant difference here. With a Swift or other Maruti cars, you only need to visit the service centre once in 12months (or 10000kms) for the scheduled service, while with Tata cars (including top of the range Safaris), you would end up visiting the service centre much more frequently. Enough LTRs of Safaris on the forum attest to this. Inspite of their inherent lack of reliability, to give Tata their due, they would honour a warranty claim easier than a MASS, though the chances of needing a warranty claim are way slimmer with a Maruti.

[amitk26]

Answering your first question it is supposed to indicate normal service charge as someone quoted 4500 for a 5 lakh petrol hatch is cheap.
Coming to fortuner actually 1k is 6 months minor service cost for both innova and fortuner this is Toyota`s way of giving higher reliability. Actually speaking the just do a wash, topups and inspection every 6 months the vehicle needs service only yearly or 10k of there is any falt found in this 6 months inspection it is repaired.

For comparing service costs both full service and minor service costs over the year needs to be included.

Originally Posted by supremeBaleno

while with Tata cars (including top of the range Safaris), you would end up visiting the service centre much more frequently. Enough LTRs of Safaris on the forum attest to this. Inspite of their inherent lack of reliability, to give Tata their due, they would honour a warranty claim easier than a MASS, though the chances of needing a warranty claim are way slimmer with a Maruti.

While it is a maruti thread I would not like to bring in too much of tata but saying that safaris need to visit service centre more often is pure bs. Mine visits once a year or 15k which is service interval.
I think this itself is an issue if they would have a mandatory inspection like toyota every six months it will save a lot of trouble to owners.
May be JK das here can attest to this as he has 1.2 lakh km+ safari.
You are looking at few safaris owned by enthusiasts who drove a lot and pay attention to each and every sound.
Just a simple search will tell you same issues of injector clogging or suspension etc are found in all cars including swifts.
Once you start an umbrella thread it is bound to accumulate all issues.
Just look at scorpio thread does it paint a rosy picture ?
Any way enough of OT discussion

Only example quoted here is a skoda fabia and scoda is known to over charge.

If You really want to compare Maruti service costs why not compare swift diesel with Toyota liva for instance ?
Or with mahindra varito in case for some reasons you don't like TML vehicles.

[saket77]

Originally Posted by amitk26

If You really want to compare Maruti service costs why not compare swift diesel with Toyota liva for instance ?
Or with mahindra varito in case for some reasons you don't like TML vehicles.

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/techni...an-cars-3.html

If you go by the posts on this thread, a headlamp bulb for Toyota was quoted at 11K & another for 8.5K - All by the Toyota dealership. Later the poster got it from authorised Philips reseller for 3K.

PS: I do not hate Toyota at all, just cannot understand that why they cannot make their cars look a little better! About Tata ASC, the less said the better. I would not buy a Tata car, even if a free lifetime service was offered.

[supremeBaleno]

Originally Posted by amitk26

Coming to fortuner actually 1k is 6 months minor service cost for both innova and fortuner this is Toyota`s way of giving higher reliability. Actually speaking the just do a wash, topups and inspection every 6 months the vehicle needs service only yearly

To compare just the cost without considering what service is provided for that cost, is too simplistic (and erroneous) a way to gauge service-cost. Here for 1K, all Toyota seems to be doing is a water-wash and a breezy check, which for 1K seems costly for the money paid, while the 4.5K gets you an all-fluid replacement service that lasts a year. The Toyota car would need another service at 1year with fluid-replacement - what does it cost ?

And what do you mean by "this is Toyota`s way of giving higher reliability" ? So if a brand gives a 3-month service period (like Honda) so they are giving even higher reliability ? Which do you think is more reliable ? A car that needs a service only once in 12months / 10K kms or a Toyota that needs a checkup every 6 months ?

Originally Posted by amitk26

You are looking at few safaris owned by enthusiasts who drove a lot and pay attention to each and every sound.

Everyone is an enthusiast here, not just safari owners. And most of us (atleast I am) are bothered about any unwanted sounds/squeaks/rattles in our cars. In 8 years of owning the Baleno, I have driven it on all kinds of roads/potholes/craters and there is not a single rattle in the car.

Originally Posted by amitk26

Answering your first question it is supposed to indicate normal service charge as someone quoted 4500 for a 5 lakh petrol hatch is cheap.

As I mentioned, with Maruti cars, the every 20K km service is extensive when it comes to the fluids that are replaced. And given the increase in price of fluids (like every other commodity), I don't think 4500 is high. Given below is the 70K service cost of my 8-year old Baleno from the car's LTR on tbhp - I doubt there is much that can be reduced there given the fluids replaced.

Originally Posted by supremeBaleno

The odo crossed 70000kms last week and got the car serviced today at Ignite, ECR. Normal scheduled service with some of the fluids getting changed.

Damage was Rs4814, with breakup being :

Parts:
EngineOil - Mobil 10W-30 (3.8L) ; 1311
Oil Filter : 120
Gear oil : 963
Coolant : 240
Brake fluid (top-up) : 70
PS fluid (top-up) : 60
Consumables : 350
---------------------
Sub-Total-1 : 3113

Labour :
General Service / tuneup : 900
Waterwash : 400
---------------------
Sub-Total-2 : 1300

Tax : : 401

[amitk26]

Originally Posted by saket77

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/techni...an-cars-3.html

Well outliers are there , For instance have you checked Baleno parts costs.

Originally Posted by saket77

PS: I do not hate Toyota at all, just cannot understand that why they cannot make their cars look a little better! About Tata ASC, the less said the better. I would not buy a Tata car, even if a free lifetime service was offered.

Your choice I am fully satisfied and happy customer with once a year 15000KM service and some bolt tightening and WD40 spray as required on my own.

Originally Posted by supremeBaleno

To compare just the cost without considering what service is provided for that cost, is too simplistic (and erroneous) a way to gauge service-cost. Here for 1K, all Toyota seems to be doing is a water-wash and a breezy check, which for 1K seems costly for the money paid, while the 4.5K gets you an all-fluid replacement service that lasts a year. The Toyota car would need another service at 1year with fluid-replacement - what does it cost ?

That is exactly what I said when you quoted 1K for fortuner in response to service cost comparison, Why are you posing my own point as a question to me ?

Originally Posted by supremeBaleno

And what do you mean by "this is Toyota`s way of giving higher reliability" ? So if a brand gives a 3-month service period (like Honda) so they are giving even higher reliability ? Which do you think is more reliable ? A car that needs a service only once in 12months / 10K kms or a Toyota that needs a checkup every 6 months ?

Everyone is an enthusiast here, not just safari owners. And most of us (atleast I am) are bothered about any unwanted sounds/squeaks/rattles in our cars.

One one hand you have loads of complaints about rattles and sqeeks but on the other hand you don't seem to like Toyota way

I mean Toyota cars do not rattle squeek because they do checkup in 6 months, All your complaints about perceived frequent visits for Safari are relatively minor issues which can be taken care off by minor service in 6 months service rather then 15000KM 1 year service which they have now.

Originally Posted by supremeBaleno

In 8 years of owning the Baleno, I have driven it on all kinds of roads/potholes/craters and there is not a single rattle in the car.

Baleno was a good car but discontinued here can you say the same for Swift and other Maruti cars ? Are you sure Swift / Dezire owners have same satisfaction level

[vasudeva]

Originally Posted by supremeBaleno

And what do you mean by "this is Toyota`s way of giving higher reliability" ? So if a brand gives a 3-month service period (like Honda) so they are giving even higher reliability ? Which do you think is more reliable ? A car that needs a service only once in 12months / 10K kms or a Toyota that needs a checkup every 6 months ?

I beg to differ here on Toyota petrol cars having 2 of their cars. Their service interval for both my petrol cars (Corolla and Etios) is 12 mths/10K and not 6 months. Do not know of diesel service. As to cost, Etios was on Toyota smile package of Rs. 2200 and was last serviced free of cost in April 2013 at 10K/1yr.

On Corolla for 6 years, I have never had reason to complain of service costs. The costs are around 4-5K now but that is for synthetic oil (TGMO). It used to be ~3K sometime back but has increased because of higher fuel costs. I do not recall the exact amounts because my driving means that I clock around 6-7K pa and so each 10K service coincides with 1 yr. Thus I have forgotten what it cost in 2010-11 but it used to be around 2.5-3 then for just service component+pick-up.

One thing that I can attest to about Toyota service at most dealers that I have dealt with is the extra add-on and minor services that are given for free. Based on what I have experienced so far with my specific case, I can strongly say that Toyota's service ethics in my case is towards satisfaction first and revenues/profits later (though higher service standards usually lead to higher profits in terms of higher customer satisfaction and referrals).

Can I say the same thing about Maruti: do not know since I sold my last Maruti car in May 2004 (Zen) but even then, many times, the service advisor would often advise on some paid add-on some of which may have been necessary some time but more often were not.

[zoombiee]

Originally Posted by amitk26

Well outliers are there , For instance have you checked Baleno parts costs.

I think Baleno does not consume MGP. It consumes SGP which are imported and hence expensive. There are decent quality after market alternatives to bring down cost. Most ETIOS would still be in their warranty period, the real cost may be known a year down the line. Service cost is one part. After about 60k kms when one has to begin replacing components one by one, is where Maruti works out to be cheap. We can list out spares and compare which company provides them cheaper.
Also, I am not entirely convinced how Toyota service can be cheaper. The oil, oil filter, air filter, coolant etc etc charges cant possibly be cheaper than Maruti. Then how is it cheaper. Is the replacement window much larger. Maruti recommends most replacements every 20k kms. How often does Toyota recommend (say for Etios/Liva).?

[supremeBaleno]

Originally Posted by amitk26

One one hand you have loads of complaints about rattles and sqeeks but on the other hand you don't seem to like Toyota way

What complaints ? And it is nothing about Toyota or Honda way - just that I don't understand why a car needs to go in for 3mon / 6mon checkups. Maybe needed in the Amby/PAL days, but not for today's cars, atleast most brands.

Originally Posted by amitk26

All your complaints about perceived frequent visits for Safari are relatively minor issues which can be taken care off by minor service in 6 months service rather then 15000KM 1 year service which they have now.

Minor or major is relative. There are folks that got stranded in their new Safaris and they might think it is a minor issue that the ASC fixed free of cost, but I see no reason why a modern car costing a million bucks should have these issues in the initial months/years. To give an example, Tsk's Safari thread would have it's title modified every other day to reflect the latest issue of the day/week. I doubt he faces the same issue with his Liva that costs half as much.

Originally Posted by amitk26

Baleno was a good car but discontinued here can you say the same for Swift and other Maruti cars ? Are you sure Swift / Dezire owners have same satisfaction level

We have a 6-yr old Swift too and very satisfied with reliability and no noises too. And a 2-yr old A-Star that has seen the MASS only for the scheduled services. Can't say the same about our M800, but then it is 14.5 years old + the lowest segment car + (ab)used by many members of the family who use it. So overall I think it has been a good experience with Maruti.

[amitk26]

Originally Posted by zoombiee

I think Baleno does not consume MGP. It consumes SGP which are imported and hence expensive. There are decent quality after market alternatives to bring down cost.

Since outliner examples for comparing costs were brought in by others I brought in an outliner as I said before. There may be N number of justifications for apart being outrageously expensive. The point being that bringing in outliners is not exactly constructive and I hope this example settles the issue.

We are not discussing aftermarket things surely most A.S.S sells breakpads for diesel vehicles in range 2K to 3K depending of Car brand but same from open market from brands like TVS Girling can be brought for 800-900 Rs. On an average parts are about 50% inflated at A.S.S then aftermarket but an average joe can not hunt outside and ascertain that he is good quality part.

Originally Posted by zoombiee

We can list out spares and compare which company provides them cheaper.

Exactly this is kind of comparison I would love member amalji has provided such comparison in another thread I am unable to recall where exactly.

Originally Posted by zoombiee

Also, I am not entirely convinced how Toyota service can be cheaper. The oil, oil filter, air filter, coolant etc etc charges cant possibly be cheaper than Maruti. Then how is it cheaper. Is the replacement window much larger. Maruti recommends most replacements every 20k kms. How often does Toyota recommend (say for Etios/Liva).?

It is cheaper the synthetic oil which Toyota sells is really really cheap for Liva with synthetic oil it is 4.5K where as with mineral oil it is under 2K. These costs are as per long term ownership threads of members here on T-BHP

Also I heard the Diesel filter is for 2L KM and does not need change every 20-30K like other brands but I am not too sure on this part and needs verification.

For record I went for Honda Amaze instead of Etios because I simply hate looks of Etios the main reason was my wife drives this car and running is not much. But in all parameters from long term maintence PoV Etios / Liva is pretty low cost to maintain and that's why it is hit with taxi segment.


@supremebaleno: We are/were discussing service costs and not satisfaction level or goodness of product, You have good experience with Maruti good for you. My Sister had very bad experience with reliability of Swift sold and bought a Honda City in B'bay.

I do not recall any Safari owner including TSK getting stranded midway that stranding is sole preserve for another big beast from another Indian brand which was prone to clutch failure and draws very little flack ask Mr. Upreti more about it
Anyway you are welcome to discuss badness of Safari on Safari 2.2 VTT thread lets focus on comparing Maruti service cost with others here.

[zoombiee]

Originally Posted by amitk26

It is cheaper the synthetic oil which Toyota sells is really really cheap for Liva with synthetic oil it is 4.5K where as with mineral oil it is under 2K.

Also I heard the Diesel filter is for 2L KM and does not need change every 20-30K like other brands but I am not too sure on this part and needs verification.

is 4.5 l cost of their synthetic oil, or does the complete service with synthetic oil change cost 4.5k. I very much doubt Toyota can sell synthetic oil much cheaper than Maruti atleast in India. Most Toyota's will be under warranty and a typical service (first 2 atleast ) would be oil change + oil filter which should cost much lesser. I own a 5 yr SX4. If I do a service where labor charges and the 1.3 k charged for paid service is cancelled here would be the charges -
1 -> Oil (5W30) -> 1.1k (Shell HX5 AZ is used)
2 -> Oil filter -> 150
3 -> Air filter -> 250-300
4 -> Coolant - 350
5 -> Fuel filter - 500

Cost comes to about 2k. If I include labor, 1.3k for paid service, another 500-1000 for fluid changes and that brak pad cleaning sham of about 300 buks. The whole bill comes up to about 5k. I very much doubt Toyota can sell spares cheaper than Maruti (even 30% cheaper). Oil change interval is dependant on grade of oil used. So there should be in that price considering same grade of oil is used.

I remember a colleague of mine had problem with his Etios. The boot bulb would not turn off causing his battery to drain. He had to replace battery and the relay circuit. This wasnt covered by warranty (not sure exact reasons). I remember being surprised by the charges (was pretty expensive). I dont recollect all the facts exactly as this was about 18-24 months back.
Having cars of various manufacturers in the family including Toyota, I am convinced that Maruti service is the cheapest in the long term. Yes they have got costlier over a period of time.

[avi550m]

I got a call from Leo Motors Bangalore (where I had purchased my A-Star Automatic), regarding the 3rd service (10k kms). I asked the lady on the phone what the cost would be and she said Rs 3.9k I asked her why, and she had no explanation.

After going through the threads I realized she might be trying to include the 'Optional' Synthetic Oil instead of the Mineral Oil which is specified by default.

So I called the actual service center, who told me that the A-Star (or indeed any K10 series engined Marutis) require Mineral, and Synthetic is an option. Luckily, I knew the correct terms, including the 5W30 grade specified, so he was honest and upfront.

But had I been gullible, I would have been forced to pay 3.9k for the service, which, as far as I can see, primarily includes the Oil and Oil Filter Change.

Should I buy a packet of Shell Helix HX5 mineral oil (5w30, as recommended in the manual) from my neighbourhood shell pump, or trust the mineral oil that they will fill and the price they will charge for that.