[nandans2005]

Originally Posted by Amartya

I am sure I cannot change your mind, but like someone else said, you need to some more to the dealers/FIAT before doing this. I thought that the dealership offered you a good deal, in fact, if you had bargained for a complete 4-year free service package from them, that would have been good.

Dealer margins are wafer thin on each car, they'll have to sell close to 15 cars to break even. Like Wildon mentioned, give us the VIN#, and kindly share the photographs too, along with the legal documents that show that Concorde agreed that they had repainted the panels. I do not wish to sound skeptical, but this data is important for this thread.

Vinay,


I would't suggest any kind of compromise with the dealer, no need to do it.

You are taking the right step, please go ahead with your plan. i only wonder if anybody would like to undergo what you are going through.When the court has ruled in your favour, there is nothing to see back.

It hurts really bad, it hurts for sure to experience all these unwanted things in life.

You are NOT worth a sub standard product in any sense. Please go ahead with your plans. Things need to change in INDIA. The laws are made to comfort the mighty in our country. The laws dont protect the buyers here.

Place this dealer in the US or Europe, would he dared to play a mischief like this ?

[Amartya]

Originally Posted by nandans2005

Vinay,

I would't suggest any kind of compromise with the dealer, no need to do it.

You are taking the right step, please go ahead with your plan. i only wonder if anybody would like to undergo what you are going through.When the court has ruled in your favour, there is nothing to see back.

It hurts really bad, it hurts for sure to experience all these unwanted things in life.

You are NOT worth a sub standard product in any sense. Please go ahead with your plans. Things need to change in INDIA. The laws are made to comfort the mighty in our country. The laws dont protect the buyers here.

Place this dealer in the US or Europe, would he dared to play a mischief like this ?

This is not about a "compromise" and I understand that it hurts to go through such an experience. The fact is, that the onus does lie on the customer to get a clean car as well. For precisely this reason, our forum recommends that extensive PDI.

While we might try to be idealistic, the fact remains that the legal system doesn't work in the same way as the west. Also, had this dealer been in the US or Europe, the whole business scenario changes (wages margins etc.), so it is absolutely not prudent to use that argument in this case. Customers in the west are far better informed as well.

I hope you realize that it is our right to go to the court, which Vinay did, but it is also within Concorde Motor's right to appeal the judgement. This is in reference to your "there is nothing to see back"; sorry, but there is.

A roadshow in my opinion it should be the last resort. If you do something like that, it ensures that the dealership will be more belligerent.

Here's my personal opinion about how to go about this:

a. Raise the concern once more with Fiat India, copy someone from Tata Motors too. Cite the court order too.

b. Get in touch with the auto-magazines in India. I am sure you'll find a sympathetic ear.

c. A car is a mechanical "device", get an independent opinion whether the car suffered any structural damage or not. If it hasn't, get the panels changed, get free service and whatever else you think is necessary for the health of the car.

Before retorting, go through my post once more, and engage me in a debate with valid points instead of an idealistic rant.

[wildon]

Originally Posted by sdp1975

Chassis no appears to be MCA17888F08072967DPZ from
Fiat Palio Stile - Consumer Report, Consumer Review, Consumer Complaint for India - Consumerdaddy.com

1.3 MJTD E3 75CV / 55KW STILE SDX
Engine: 0001070
Production date: 29/4/2009

So dealer had this vehicle with them around 4 month before delivery.

[nandans2005]

[quote=Amartya;1982512]

This is not about a "compromise"

If this is not compromise, then what is it?

Also, had this dealer been in the US or Europe, the whole business scenario changes.

Cheating is in any case is a crime, whether in the west or for that matter anywhere in the world. Cheaters and cheating get the same treatment everywhere, except that in our country these guys have a fair chance of going scotfree.

so it is absolutely not prudent to use that argument in this case. Customers in the west are far better informed as well.

In what sense, it is not wise to point this out? Well coming to the point that buyers in west being well informed, does it mean that the buyers in the west know what happens in the stock yard & in the dealer's works. In the first place, its very rare that a dealer will do such a mischief abroad.

If you do something like that, it ensures that the dealership will be more belligerent.

As if he is not now. he has not bothered about the court order & its more than an year since this has happened, now What else is being expected from the dealer, A nice brand new car in exchange, which will never happen. Isnt the dealer trying to give the issue a permanent death.

He doesnt want the Ghost to bother him, He wants to kill both person ( in this case the issue) and the Ghost too. The dealer very well knows that this issue is a hanging sword on his neck and would want to see it off soon.

Get in touch with the auto-magazines in India. I am sure you'll find a sympathetic ear.

Magazines , for them it will be a nice article to fill up their spaces. Vinay wouldn't get nothing more than a sympathetic ear, thats it, what else ?

Vinay has cleared mention he has spoken to fiat guys and got no response as such.

c. A car is a mechanical "device", get an independent opinion whether the car suffered any structural damage or not. If it hasn't, get the panels changed, get free service and whatever else you think is necessary for the health of the car.

The point here is that its damaged car sold, not a new car which met with an accident after delivery to get it assessed.

Do we really understand the emotional damage a person undergoes to have understand that he has got a damaged car for his hard earned money.

We need to give value to the emotional damage than trying to be practical and compromise with any kind of situation. Our country gives more value to emotions unlike the west where practicality wins over emotions.

Before retorting, go through my post once more, and engage me in a debate with valid points instead of an idealistic rant

I am not ranting as being pointed nor would want any debate with anybody here. It is just that few people fail to put themselves in Vinay's shoes and think in his line of thought. Being an armchair expert, commenting & suggesting is a one thing and to undergo this kind of horrifying experience in life is the other.

[Amartya]

Originally Posted by nandans2005

He doesnt want the Ghost to bother him, He wants to kill both person ( in this case the issue) and the Ghost too. The dealer very well knows that this issue is a hanging sword on his neck and would want to see it off soon.

Didn't quite get the logic behind the ghost metaphor.

Originally Posted by nandans2005

Magazines , for them it will be a nice article to fill up their spaces. Vinay wouldn't get nothing more than a sympathetic ear, thats it, what else ?

Did you seriously not understand the motive behind writing to the magazines? These automobile magazines have readerships in lakhs (very high readership in Bangalore as well) and bad press like this is not a sought after thing for a dealership or a car company. Secondly, this reaches a far wider audience than a "roadshow". Thirdly, the magazines have much greater access to the management that Vinay can ever have.

Originally Posted by nandans2005

Vinay has cleared mention he has spoken to fiat guys and got no response as such.

Read above.

Originally Posted by nandans2005

The point here is that its damaged car sold, not a new car which met with an accident after delivery to get it assessed.

I get that point. However, fact remains that a car is a mechanical device that can be analyzed for structural damage. Keep this in mind and read the response below.

Originally Posted by nandans2005

Do we really understand the emotional damage a person undergoes to have understand that he has got a damaged car for his hard earned money.
We need to give value to the emotional damage than trying to be practical and compromise with any kind of situation. Our country gives more value to emotions unlike the west where practicality wins over emotions.

Let me first categorically state that I am on his side. However, unlike you, I want to see him put this incident behind him, instead of it rankling his side for years. Precisely because he spent his hard earned money, and because the car is a mechanical device, it is important that he gets the car repaired (read point above) and put an end to this saga.

You may chose to live in a Utopian world, but the truth is that the legal system in India is already hard pressed. Already the system is in shambles, and do what you may, it won't improve Vinay's plight. It's take him years and a lot of "emotional damage" to argue in the High Court (let me reiterate, it is Concorde Motors' right to go to High Court).

Read Harish's case about his Skoda, you'll realize that even with enough sufficient monetary resources and intent, it is very hard indeed.

The part of your composition in italics is quite convoluted, from your earlier posts, you seemed to be favouring the west's system (rightly so) but now suddenly you think emotional value is more important than practicality?

Originally Posted by nandans2005

I am not ranting as being pointed nor would want any debate with anybody here. It is just that few people fail to put themselves in Vinay's shoes and think in his line of thought. Being an armchair expert, commenting & suggesting is a one thing and to undergo this kind of horrifying experience in life is the other.

A debate is a healthy thing, constructive debate is even more so. If you make a point that will help Vinay, I'll be the first to acknowledge it (and appreciate it). I agree being an armchair expert comes with its perks, but sometimes the armchair gives us the comfort and peace to think rationally, for the best possible outcome. Something that being worked-up and irrational cannot.

[nandans2005]

Seriously Amartya, we should be working to get Vinay out of this problem. Maybe GOD FORBId, that we need to face this situation sometime in our lives.

I am voicing my opinions & you likewise.

Its upto to Vinay to pick any one of the many of the suggestions written in this thread.

I wouldn't personally compromise with the dealer or any guy knowing that he has cheated me with my own money. I have my own way of dealing successfully with such unfair people. I dont expect anything good from a cheater nor i am great Mahatma to let a cheater get away.

I only hope that Vinay is out there in our city doing a campaign though.

Nothing more would i like to say. I would leave it to armchair experts to do the rational & sane talking.

[johnruben]

In a country like India, Car is something more than an automobile, its a person's 2nd wife and when someone buys his new car with all the money he has saved, it means a lot to him... And when he is conned by some selfish salesguy or distributor, man gonna show what he can do about it. This could have happened to any of us, so lets help this guy get justice, thats what i want.

Vinay I am in bangalore too, I can join you with a lot of my friends for any rally, the earlier one i missed let me know if you need my help

[raju2512]

@ Amattya

+ 1 to what you said.

While my heart is with the unfortunate owner of the car, my head is with what you said.

There have been incidents where a car just being driven out the show room meeting with accidents. The owners do repair the car and use it if there is no structural damage.

While I don't accept what the dealer has done, the best way forward for the buyer will be to arrive at a compromise (if there is no structural damage to the car) and get on with life. There more enjoyable ( & essential) things to do than fighting a case with the dealers. I am sure that he will ultimately win and teach a lesson to the dealer, but at what cost (in terms of time and stress)

@@ VINAYSREENIVAS

What is your aim behind the campaign ?

1. To teach a lesson to the dealer so that they won't cheat another unsuspecting customer - -- Hats off to you. Please write to auto mags also so that the issue gets more visibility, but be prepared for a long battle ahead and you have to use the same car till the final verdict.

2. If it is to force the dealer to give you a new car, then you are going in the wrong direction. Compromise is the best way out.

[Amartya]

Originally Posted by raju2512

@ Amattya

+ 1 to what you said.

While my heart is with the unfortunate owner of the car, my head is with what you said.

There have been incidents where a car just being driven out the show room meeting with accidents. The owners do repair the car and use it if there is no structural damage.

While I don't accept what the dealer has done, the best way forward for the buyer will be to arrive at a compromise (if there is no structural damage to the car) and get on with life. There more enjoyable ( & essential) things to do than fighting a case with the dealers. I am sure that he will ultimately win and teach a lesson to the dealer, but at what cost (in terms of time and stress)

Thanks for the vote of faith, and taking the trouble to understand what I was trying to say. You have actually said it in simpler words(your words in bold).

Vinay hasn't shared any updates with us, I hope he will do so soon.

[00nuts001]

Just out of curiosity for justice: what was the final outcome of this vehicle?

[Cruising Buddha]

Evening Team !

I own a 2010 Petrol Linea Emotion which was bought brand new from Sai motors showroom, Kandivali, Mumbai. Since day one the car has had cosmetic damages- including dangling vanity mirror in both visors, a glove compartment whose cover comes off ever other week and a completely soiled arm rest on the driver's side door. My wife had taken delivery of the vehicle therefore the showroom explained all these defects as minor transportation issues and had them fixed before handing it over to her.

Recently when the car suffered minor scratches on the bumper and doors, I found out that the car's original colour was maroon which was painted white by Fiat. My query to you guys is whether we have been handed a test drive/refurbished vehicle by the showroom/company? Is there any other example of such a thing happening or is this an accepted practice in the car industry?

Oh and while we talking about scratches how effective are the scratch remover pen/kits that are available online? The scratch is without any dent though deep enough for the original maroon colour to be seen.

Thanks for reading through..
Cheers!

[ad3952n]

,

Originally Posted by Cruising Buddha

I own a 2010 Petrol Linea Emotion which was bought brand new from Sai motors showroom, Kandivali, Mumbai. Since day one the car has had cosmetic damages- including dangling vanity mirror in both visors, a glove compartment whose cover comes off ever other week and a completely soiled arm rest on the driver's side door.

Mate, this shows total negligence on the part of the showroom. A proper PDI was probably not carried out from their end. Also, it is possible, the car has been fixed with refurbished items. Pathetic to say the least.

I found out that the car's original colour was maroon which was painted white by Fiat. My query to you guys is whether we have been handed a test drive/refurbished vehicle by the showroom/company? Is there any other example of such a thing happening or is this an accepted practice in the car industry?

Your thinking is 100% correct. It is possible that they did this sheepish job to avoid loosing a sale (mind you these sales people can go to any darn extent). This is not a authentic policy of any automobile brand as far as I understand.

how effective are the scratch remover pen/kits that are available online?

A big "ZERO". Never fall for them. At the best try up a rubbing compound.

Thanks

AD

[SunnyBoi]

I've seen a brand new Punto sold with a repainted bonnet; never seen a whole car repainted as before.

Suggest you to take this issue with higher ups at Fiat - If you had taken pictures of your car when delivered, they will help as well.

[Oranger]

Originally Posted by Cruising Buddha

Evening Team !


Recently when the car suffered minor scratches on the bumper and doors, I found out that the car's original colour was maroon which was painted white by Fiat. My query to you guys is whether we have been handed a test drive/refurbished vehicle by the showroom/company? Thanks for reading through..
Cheers!

Many of the cars from late 2009 & early 2010 had the same issue but it was limited to the bumper. The bumper had the maroon color on the insides with the car color sprayed over it right from the factory and the dealers had nothing to do with this. I doubt the doors have such irregularity. Can you post some pics for better clarity?

[arjab]

Originally Posted by Cruising Buddha

Recently when the car suffered minor scratches on the bumper and doors, I found out that the car's original colour was maroon which was painted white by Fiat. My query to you guys is whether we have been handed a test drive/refurbished vehicle by the showroom/company? Is there any other example of such a thing happening or is this an accepted practice in the car industry?

This is certainly not the accepted practice under any circumstance specially when you say you have paid the price for a new Linea. Touch-up paint jobs are one thing, but changing a vehicle's colour in totality - in this case from Maroon to White - is certainly not common practice before a new car sale.
Once a vehicle is delivered to any dealership in India, all work, be it mechanical, body , electrical is done by the dealership and not by the OEM. Yes, warranty replacements need to be approved by OEM, but the physical work will be done by the dealership. Thus it does leave a window open for potential mischief.
Also as far as i am aware (please excuse me if i am wrong), any change in colour from the original factory painted colour as declared to RTO requires an endorsement in the registration certificate - so there potentially may be a legal angle here as well.

2010 would mean Tata-FIAT retail - days.

Cases of dealer demo vehicles being sold is not illegal, (Audi openly advertises and does it), but it is mandatory for the dealer to mention the same to the customer and sell the vehicle at the appropriate depreciated price.
Also as the Dealer Demo should be registered in the Dealer's name , and the vehicle should be transferred to you because its a "second hand car" when you are buying it. Warranty, i think, is also often offered to the customer.

We are not aware of the circumstances under which the dealer sold you the car - but it would be wise to run a check on all the paperwork including the Form-20, (which is the OEM to RTO Auth docs) documents) to ascertain the exact history of the vehicle.