[Joy]

Originally Posted by manikjeet

.....
Mr niraj now said that he wouldn't even return me my car and said i can do whatever i want. But he got a very rude awaking by my dad and most probably his last day the dealer. During the whole process fellow Bhpian ABHIBH showed up.
.......

Apart from manhandling, this attitude is a serious one. Instead of manikjeet (who has an influential family) had it been me or any Tom, Dick, Harry, what we would have done? Lodge a complain and wait 5-10 years for justice to be delivered, while giving my EMI's without using what is supposed to be my car.

Someone in this forum mentioned what would have happened if the dealership is owned by a influential politician. Let's suppose that it is true, so my question is,
1) Does that mean that we will take whatever is offered even though my hard earned money is at stake?
2) Does that mean that we will bow down to each and every person more influential/powerful than us, even if we have some legitimate issues?
3) Does that mean any influential/powerful people can do whatever they feel like?

If we, the educated class, don't protest these kind of behavior, then God knows what is in store for the less privileged class.

I am not advocating rude behaviors to others but patience has it's limit. Manikjeet will take whatever decision he has to take. But I am against this kind of attitude by dealers (who are indeed influential). And this make me sick.

Sorry, if I have offended anyone. This is purely my views. My only concern is that a person who have the capacity to bring these morons to book should do the needful, what we the lesser mortals can't, so that they don't repeat the same attitude/mistake to others.

[Zombie69]

No offense meant to anybody out here but all i could see in the postings here is "going for the kill", when you see my first post, I also have suggested to sue them! But things changed since after I posted. People involved in this altercation got together and almost solved the issue.
I also noticed there are so many "if's and butt's" in the postings. People there are no if's and butt's. Something unfortunate happened, it was solved later, PERIOD. Not the end of the world, move on, there are better things for us to worry about in life.
Well if you want to satisfy your ego then go right ahead and sue them. But remember it takes a lot to forgive somebody. Not everybody can do it.

Cheers!
-Z

[BaCkSeAtDrIVeR]

Originally Posted by manikjeet

Now i ask my fellow bhpains that should i further escalate the matter to fiat after the cheque has cleared or should i be happy with want i got

Dute, your money, your body (which took the beating), your time, your emotion, your expectations (which were dashed).

Your call.

Who are we, mere customers, to tell you what you should do?

Originally Posted by amitk26

Well abusing is not the most mature way to handle such situation. Do you really think that you got your money back just becuase of your verbal abuse ? Without abusing the dealer staff as well you could have got the same result by escalating through written communication, putting pressure by writing to Fiat as you did. Or taking leagal recourse and going to media as last step.

+1 to that.

I am 100% sure that FIAT India or Tata-Fiat has intervened becuase here dealer is taking financial hit of bearing the tax, registration and insurance charges which they won't until they have some sword hanging on their head.

And also because the dealer did something Tata/Fiat forbade them.

Originally Posted by SILVERWOOD

@ extreme torque.

I have few questions for you.

1,Do you think the car dealer deposit the taxes to govt they collect from us on daily basis.?

AFAIK, the government does not grant credit. It is just "cash and register".

And as far as the government is concerned, the tax is paid by the owner of the vehicle; not the dealer.

Originally Posted by ariesonu

@manikjeet: Veerji, you were assaulted in front of PUBLIC & not at a convenient hour in the privacy of your home. If they are feeling so sorry then they should ask for your apology in front of the same people that they insulted you, atleast in front of their own staff..

Do not want to offend you, but this looks funny.

I have seen quite a few situation where govt. employees who go on strike are made to apologise in office.

After the apology, they go on a public demonstration (ourside office hours) shouting slogans, saying that they will repeat what they just apologised for.

But the point is reasonable.

[Theyota]

Congrats, Fiat/Tata for trying to resolve this matter if you really did try. IMHO Manjeet, you need to let this case to rest if you got your money back.


But Fiat/Tata, your work on this issue has only started. If you really want to be sucessfull, you have to punish dealers like this and make an example out of them. Fiat, your August sales just dropped by 35% even though you have a good product because of horrible dealers like this. Tata, your Indica sales dropped by 22% and your product is nowhere near the best in the market.

We want Fiat and Tata to be very successful, but with honesty and integrity.

[NYMEX]

We must understand that customer centric behaviour is still evolving in India. IMHO the best way forward in such situations is to handle the situation tactfully/politely with the floor staff and in case you are not getting anywhere then use the three magic sentences (in the sequence and proportionate to the resistance from the seller)
1. let me speak to the head of the unit/manager
2. please give me your managing director's/ owner contact details
3. You shall hear from the consumer court soon (<----this works like magic and to be used in extreme cases only)

[Googleman]

Originally Posted by NYMEX

We must understand that customer centric behaviour is still evolving in India. IMHO the best way forward in such situations is to handle the situation tactfully/politely with the floor staff and in case you are not getting anywhere then use the three magic sentences (in the sequence and proportionate to the resistance from the seller)
1. let me speak to the head of the unit/manager
2. please give me your managing director's/ owner contact details
3. You shall hear from the consumer court soon (<----this works like magic and to be used in extreme cases only)

Yes, and the reply will be "Do whatever you want to do, you will not even get your car back"

The options above are not practical boss. Politeness is a tool but not for all machines. Some need hammering too..

[Zombie69]

Originally Posted by Googleman

Yes, and the reply will be "Do whatever you want to do, you will not even get your car back"

The options above are not practical boss. Politeness is a tool but not for all machines. Some need hammering too..

It works!! Trust me. I just happened to witness something like this in the SOny service Center in Rajajinagar!
I was there to pick up my digital camera today (couple of hours ago), there was this other guy had the same type of camera and the data (pictures) got erased due to mishandling by sony service center people. He was trying his best to keep cool and explain everything to this rep, but the rep was a little rude. Disgruntled this guy asked for the manager to which the rep said no he won't call him. So this guy said lets meet in the consumer court and started to collect his camera and paperwork and was ready to leave the showroom, the manager came running and took this guy to his office!
Consumer court threat surely does work!

Cheers!
-Z

[Amartya]

Originally Posted by Googleman

Yes, and the reply will be "Do whatever you want to do, you will not even get your car back"
The options above are not practical boss. Politeness is a tool but not for all machines. Some need hammering too..

Even the most unreasonable businessmen in the country won't say "Do whatever.....car back", unless there is some sort of provocation at the consumer end. In this case, we are privy to the consumer being verbally abusive (which I'd surmise, would be the use of expletives). Without condoning the dealership's behavior, I'd just say that 'hammering' should be the very last resort, and that too, it should be done without stooping to the absolute depths. Trust me, burning bridges should be the very last option.

From most responses on this thread, I know I am in the minority here, but I think NYMEX's post about doing it the right way, is something we should try to emulate.

[SILVERWOOD]

@ manikjeet

Your thread has generated tremendous response.

Where are you man.?

[NYMEX]

Originally Posted by Amartya

From most responses on this thread, I know I am in the minority here, but I think NYMEX's post about doing it the right way, is something we should try to emulate.

Thanks Amartya and hopefully we shall succeed in making the world a more gentler and compassionate place. Denis Diderot said - There are things I can't force. I must adjust. There are times when the greatest change needed is a change of my viewpoint
It is good to hear that Manikjeet recovered his money, unfortunate that many think that only influence works.

Move on Manikjeet - buy a new car - be happy again- keep the chin up

[Cesc]

Originally Posted by NYMEX

We must understand that customer centric behaviour is still evolving in India. IMHO the best way forward in such situations is to handle the situation tactfully/politely with the floor staff and in case you are not getting anywhere then use the three magic sentences (in the sequence and proportionate to the resistance from the seller)
1. let me speak to the head of the unit/manager
2. please give me your managing director's/ owner contact details
3. You shall hear from the consumer court soon (<----this works like magic and to be used in extreme cases only)

Whether the dealer's staff should be taken to task is another question but speaking from my experience - these things don't work - at least not around here. The higher up you go the more drunk on power/status people are. Even a slightly connected person (say somebody remotely connected to even a sub-inspector) will dare you to file charges anywhere. In many cases if one speaks politely the other person tries to ride roughshod. You talk in the language the other person is talking in - that's pretty much about it around here.

IMO the only reason why money was refunded in this case is because of Manikjeet's 'connections'.

[Aroy]

Originally Posted by Cesc

Whether the dealer's staff should be taken to task is another question but speaking from my experience - these things don't work - at least not around here. The higher up you go the more drunk on power/status people are. Even a slightly connected person (say somebody remotely connected to even a sub-inspector) will dare you to file charges anywhere. In many cases if one speaks politely the other person tries to ride roughshod. You talk in the language the other person is talking in - that's pretty much about it around here.

IMO the only reason why money was refunded in this case is because of Manikjeet's 'connections'.

+1

Most of the dealers are politically well connected. So politeness and minor threats do not bother them. You have to come up with a "bigger clout" if you want to get out of a sticky situation.

I still believe that prevention is better than cure. Do you home work properly. Do not part with your money till you are satisfied that you do not have a Lemon on your hands. Carry out PDI diligently. This would send the proper signals to the staff and they may even cooperate to point out defects. After all no one wants a "trouble some" customer". This works in all spheres of life. It even works in restaurants. There have been innumerable occations when we were served substandard food in restaurants ranging from 5 stars to dhabas, polite complaint pointing out the deficiency when the food came always worked.

[PaddleShifter]

Originally Posted by pawan_pullarwar

I would suggest you to let it go. As dealer said Fiat India has taken action against them. It was small mistake from your side too that you abused them on their mistake, that might be the reason to provok them.

There is a mistake from dealer side to, he should not have tried to rectify the problem in wrong way, as they did try to fool you by adjusting the different air pressure on tires. Even I would have abused them on such behaviour.

@Fiat: Please implement Maruti's processes to handle such issue. Do not wait until customer complaints.

@pawan- Unfortunately, major mechanical faults like these can't be corrected at dealer level easily. They need major replacements.

I'm saying this because I've seen a person who bought M800 back in 2000 and got a car which had this same issue. He visited Maruti After Sales Service(MASS) some 20 times but the problem persisted.

Buying a 2.5lac car back in 2000 was a very big investment because one could own a house for that price near Chandigarh during those times. So you can yourself imagine how he must be feeling.

Manik is lucky that he got his money back. There are Skoda threads on teambhp that run for 20-30 pages(talking of that Skoda superb case) before an announcement of refund is made and that too money wasn't refunded in every case.

And Maruti did not intervene at all in the case I mentioned above. Our M800 has water seepage issues but MASS had no clue for it's treatment. We drive our car without floor carpet and floormats during monsoons. I feel so bad when it starts smelling inside. So, even the country's best A.S.S. network is useless to me.

[Joy]

Guys, it is very easy to preach forgiveness, unless and until one faces the same situation himself. I think nobody whoever is preaching forgiveness has came up with a story about themselves, where they have forgiven the person or in these case, dealers.

Someone, even said that let's start to make this world a more gentler place. My suggestion is that instead of making the world a gentler place (which has huge populations), they should try to make the dealership experience a gentler place (comparatively lower in volume). That way, we can have a much better world.

In my personal opinion, it is very easy to preach than follow it. I am not promoting violence but think once keeping yourself in Manikjeet's place and tell us what would you have done? Being a commoner, it is very difficult to extract refund from these dealers.

Regarding consumer courts options?
It will take at least 6-8 months to get it resolved. Who will pay the EMI for those months? Even after that, there is a option of challenging the verdict to higher authorities (state commission)? Then again after 6-8 months, there is an option of appealing to national commission. And after that there is a provision of challenging verdict at Supreme Court? Even if the verdict is at your favour, you will get the refund along with a mere sum of Rs. 5k to 10k as your legal expenses. In realty, you must have spent at least 50k on legal expenses along with your peace of mind.

So guys, think hard before you preach.

Disclaimer: I am against violence at the slightest excuse. But, you should deserve what you invite.

[NYMEX]

Originally Posted by Joy

Guys, it is very easy to preach forgiveness, unless and until one faces the same situation himself. I think nobody whoever is preaching forgiveness has came up with a story about themselves, where they have forgiven the person or in these case, dealers.

Someone, even said that let's start to make this world a more gentler place. My suggestion is that instead of making the world a gentler place (which has huge populations), they should try to make the dealership experience a gentler place (comparatively lower in volume). That way, we can have a much better world.

I have faced many situations here where an arm around the shoulder has worked wonders. Just one example is in Dec 2007 when my Civic developed a steering suspension problem @ approx 10,000 km. All I did was to tell the supervisor that I had spent more than I could afford and he went ahead and replaced it free of cost (Rs.15K normal charge ) and within 2 days.
A few days back my altis had a rub with the truck (claim Rs.37K) and I told the advisor at Galaxy Toyota to only get the actual damge repaired and not put any extra claims. Believe it or not he got the right rear door scratches touched up at no extra cost to the insurer or to me. Remember we too are dealing with humans and everyone seeks a few kind words of understanding. Anger only reflects lack of control... spo let's not show ours