[GTO]

Originally Posted by Switch

The complete story is that my dad sold a car 2 years back

Ah, good to know that you are the seller (and not the buyer).

I am not going with a lie to the court as I am sure that will come back one day to haunt me.

. Also, contempt of court is a very serious offence.

I would suggest you rope in a lawyer who submits all proof of sale to the concerned police station. You've already sold the car and shouldn't be held liable for anything.

[avdhesh15]

Originally Posted by Switch

He has given a statement in the Police station that he bought and further sold the car, while he hasn't mentioned anything about the transfer of ownership.

May God give the power to the family to cope with this loss.

@Switch:

1. Get all paperwork in one place - emails, documents, photos, whatsapp chats, sms, call records, anything which is related to the sale / transfer of the car. Might be tough but at least try and get old cell phone bills which would have the dealer's number.

2. State all facts truthfully - don't try to slip in a fast one because the dealer and sellers might request you to do so. Perjury is a worse crime than what you might be pulled over for currently.

3. Don't try to be the provider of justice - let the dealer do what he wants. You just need to absolve yourself in this situation. Don't come into an ego tussle - that's never taken anyone anywhere.

Good luck and keep us updated.

[hangover]

Originally Posted by Switch

I have already made up my mind to help the deceased family.

Yes I totally accept that it is my fault that the car ownership wasn't transferred but at the same time...Is there a way to drag his @ss to the court. He has given a statement in the Police station that he bought and further sold the car, while he hasn't mentioned anything about the transfer of ownership.

One thing, please don't think I'm accusing or blaming you in a wrong way. I may have sounded a bit rude.

My only wish is to help you quickly close this chapter. This cop business is very energy draining.

Before taking dealer to court please lodge a separate police complaint under the cheating and fraud category.

Use a lawyer. Mention all facts. Make affidavits and so on. Get a lawyer who is ready for rough and tough work.

Dealers know all the cops. You must now use your family members' influence and get a top cop to put in a word.

That's only a wedge in the door. Rest of the story depends on your money power alone. It's unfortunate. That's how it is.

Once your FIR is strong and registered, the cops will do your bidding. They'll ask the dealer to visit the station on multiple occasions.

Ultimately he will realize that your tenacity (hopefully) is unshakable.

He'll put up some money.

And as mentioned previously you can get something from the insurance guys.

And for your own benefit you'll have to read about all the laws. This will prevent you from getting cheated.

Nobody expects you to quote case numbers.

You should know 100% what your lawyer and theirs is talking about.

Don't assume everyone in real world in such cases is decent.

A person has died. Yet I guarantee one or two people will be against you.

[Switch]

I have given the statement and the duplicate of the sale receipt. Thanks for all the advise guys. Really appreciate it. I went to the court today and most of the lawyers said I did the right thing, also showed them the supreme court ruling I mentioned few posts ago and they said it will definitely help me in more ways then one.

Finally last piece of advise, the vehicle is still in police custody. They would ask me to get it out. I am not sure about the same as vehicle is not mine(just the papers are in my name) and once I bail out the vehicle it shows that I am the responsible person for the vehicle. Should I ask the current owner to get it transferred in their name and then get the vehicle get themselves as I am no longer willing to make my position weak in this case.

[jalex77]

Originally Posted by Switch

Also the Registration and the Insurance both are in the name of original owner. What is being suggested is to make a formal statement stating the registration and insurance and the driver driving the car at the time of accident and not mentioning anything about the sale of the car.

This was the easy way out. And regarding the SC decision, its from 1999. It could be overruled by now. And the insurance company won't give up without a fight in this case cause they'll lose good money cause there's been a death. Think you could have played safer and seen a good lawyer at start itself.

[speedmiester]

Originally Posted by Switch

Finally last piece of advise, the vehicle is still in police custody. They would ask me to get it out. I am not sure about the same as vehicle is not mine(just the papers are in my name) and once I bail out the vehicle it shows that I am the responsible person for the vehicle. Should I ask the current owner to get it transferred in their name and then get the vehicle get themselves as I am no longer willing to make my position weak in this case.

Don't bother about the car now, since you have given the statement that you have sold your car, there is no need for you to get the car back from police station.
Police cannot force you to take the car back from them. This is the buyer's headache now, let him handle it. Trying to help him out now might cause problems later. Sometimes helping someone out of good intentions might cause us more problems.

[Samurai]

Originally Posted by hangover

Technically the old owner can't wash his/her hands off the matter. It's Totally his fault that the ownership wasn't transferred.

The fault actually lies with the stupid procedure. Instead of having clean handover, the RTO has a procedure that makes buyer responsible for ownership transfer, while making the selling liable for everything until it happens. In other words, buyer has no incentive to make the transfer happen. The procedure in USA is so simple. I could write the name of the new owner in the title and take away the number plates and surrender it at the DMV. Then I am done, no more liable for anything.

Meanwhile, the guy who bought my CJ340 in 2013 resold it within months without transferring the owenrship. It may have changed multiple hands by now. The form 29/30 I filled up has only the name of the first buyer. Whoever owns the vehicle now has no way to change the ownership. So it still has my name on the RC, I have confirmed via SMS. Last year the FC expired, the unofficial owner has even renewed the FC without needing my help. Obviously he has forged my signature for the purpose. Looks like the RTO doesn't even care about ID of the owner.

Now, what if a new buyer buys this vehicle and wants to transfer the Jeep into his name? I won't sign the forms once again, because that would make me liable for anything that has happened in the last 3 years. I will hold on to my sale receipt and hope for the best.

This is what an immature ownership transfer procedure has lead us into... a legal quagmire. Like the case being discussed in this thread.

Originally Posted by hangover

Moral:

As owners, while selling, take 90% advance. However, DO NOT handover the vehicle till new owner gets the papers transferred.

It takes at least months for ownership transfer in my local RTO, longer if it is out of state vehicle. I have sold/bought many used cars, and I can't imagine a buyer who will pay 90% and then wait 2 months to receive the vehicle.

Have you actually done this? Taken 90% advance and kept the car for months?

[hangover]

Originally Posted by Samurai

I have sold/bought many used cars, and I can't imagine a buyer who will pay 90% and then wait 2 months to receive the vehicle.

Have you actually done this? Taken 90% advance and kept the car for months?

Man! Which state are you talking about that takes months?

I've sold 2 cars and my beautiful Roadking with my method. Not always 90%. Depends.

Anyway in Blr, Indiranagar RTO, a name change is a half days job for you. Couple of hours for an agent.

I think that "months" you refer is to get a smart card home via post. That may take time if the blanks aren't available. Not required for this case we're talking of.

You get a paper with the name change same day.

Go to the Blr One center in the same building. Ask for RC extract. Pay Rs. 20/- approx.

You'll get a single page printout with the owners genealogical line up and finance hypothecation if any. It also lists which owner you are 1st, 2nd whatever.

I highly recommend using the Blr One services if you're a buyer too. Preparing a genuine and totally fake smart card is child's play for a DTP guy. The official RC extract is infallibly accurate.

[Samurai]

Originally Posted by hangover

Man! Which state are you talking about that takes months?

Some day you should step out of Bangalore and experience rural districts. All my cars are registered with Udupi RTO.

Originally Posted by hangover

You get a paper with the name change same day.

Go to the Blr One center in the same building. Ask for RC extract. Pay Rs. 20/- approx.

The same day stuff happens only happens in Bangalore, if the transfer is within Bangalore RTOs.

In rural districts, nothing happens within a month. When I bought this Jeep, the NOC from Dindigul took nearly 2 months to arrive. Only then I could apply for transfer of ownership, it took another two months for that fact to be endorsed in the old RC book. Another 90 days later, I could apply for KA plates which took 2 more months.

My DL is still in Bangalore address, which I could renew in 45 minutes at Jayanagar RTO. Later my wife's DL address change to Udupi took 2 months because her record had to move from Rajajinagar RTO to Udupi RTO.

[Switch]

Originally Posted by jalex77

This was the easy way out. And regarding the SC decision, its from 1999. It could be overruled by now. And the insurance company won't give up without a fight in this case cause they'll lose good money cause there's been a death. Think you could have played safer and seen a good lawyer at start itself.

17. Even though the claimants in the other case, the heirs and legal representatives of Nikku Ram, have not come to this Court, we consider it appropriate to give the same direction in respect of their case. There is absolutely no difference in the case of Nikku Ram and Prem Chand. Nikku Ram, being a daily wage earner was given a compensation of Rs.2,42,000/-. It is quite possible that his heirs and legal representatives were unable to come to this Court simply for want of sufficient means. The insurance company must pay the compensation amount determined in case of Nikku Ram to his heirs and legal representatives in case the amount has so far not been realised from Salig Ram as directed by the Claims Tribunal.

18. The appeal is allowed but with no order as to costs. ………………………………J.

(AFTAB ALAM)

………………………………J.

(R.M. LODHA)

New Delhi

January 12, 2011.

The case might be of 1999 but the Supreme Court decision is of 2011 if you see the last line of the quoted text.

Coming to easy way out, well that makes me a party in a criminal case trail. I'll anyways be part of a Civil trail. Finally I would have met not 1 or 2, but at least 10 different lawyers in person or over the phone and would have talked to same number of dealers, insurance agents, surveyors combined and nobody has a clear idea on how to proceed. But whomsoever was saying that I should owe up the car cause insurance company would deny the claim changed their statements as soon as they saw this supreme court verdict. So I am relying on that.

[honeybee]

Please don't pretend/appear to be the owner of the car, just to facilitate insurance claims. No matter what people will tell you, you are not the owner and have absolutely nothing to do with the car or the accident or the victims.

Once you have proved you sold the car, stay away from the car, the victims and the intermediate and present owner.

[perty]

We owned a 2011 Nano before and exchanged it for a Nano XT model a few months ago. The old car was given to the dealer in exchange for a reduction in price while buying the new vehicle. A few months later, I confirmed from the Karnataka Bangalore South RTO website that the old car had been purchased by another person and it had also been transferred onto his name.

Today, we got a notice from the Motor Vehicles tribunal that the old car has been involved in an accident where a pedestrian lost his life and asking us to appear in court on a specific date. Now, the RTO records clearly show that the vehicle ownership transfer has happened. So I am guessing that the reason why we received this notice is because the new owner never transferred the insurance to his name and we have also been negligent with not informing the insurance company that we have sold off the car.

The proof that the car is no longer owned by us, is in two forms:
1] The RTO website, which shows that the car has a second owner
2] The documents from the dealership where we handed over the car for exchange.

What is the next course of action we can adopt here ? I am thinking of talking directly to the lawyer who has sent the notice on behalf of the accident victim, but not sure if that's the best idea.
Any suggestions/legal contacts would be highly appreciated.

[Mr.Boss]

Originally Posted by perty

The proof that the car is no longer owned by us, is in two forms:
1] The RTO website, which shows that the car has a second owner
2] The documents from the dealership where we handed over the car for exchange.

Having these proofs keep you safe. When did the ownership happened (as per RTO records) and when did the incident happened?

[perty]

Thank you for the response.
Going through the legal notice in more detail, I found that the change in ownership is reflected there as well. The first respondent is the current owner (as per the updated RTO records), the second respondent is the insurance company and we have been made the 3rd respondent as the insurance policy is still on our name, i.e. not been transferred to the current RC owner of the car.

The car ownership was transferred last year and the incident happened in Jan 2016, i.e. well after the transfer was effectuated in the RTO records.

What would our liability be in this situation ?

[apachelongbow]

Ideally the new owner is at fault. You please file a criminal FIR in your local police station stating that the new owner has used the car with your insurance illegally. Put up a case of fraud and mis representation. In the true sense how can he drive a vehicle with the insurance in someone else's name? Send a copy of the FIR and a criminal proceeding issue to the new owner's lawyer. This should set them right.