[noopster]

Got a shock of my life when I heard the renewal premium on my 11-year old Swift. Vehicle with 1.24L IDV and the premium is 6500+! Biggest component of that is the 3rd party premium.

How come we put with such nonsense?

[ghodlur]

Originally Posted by noopster

Got a shock of my life when I heard the renewal premium on my 11-year old Swift. Vehicle with 1.24L IDV and the premium is 6500+! Biggest component of that is the 3rd party premium.

How come we put with such nonsense?

Anoop,

In such cases, it is better to opt for TPL only policy. I am surprised you have kept the Swift for such a long period.

[RaguHolla]

Just a heads up to Team-BHP community, third party premiums rates revised downwards.
Anyone renewing Insurance in mean time, can take note of revised rates in this link, go to download PDF.

Now question, how do we get back already paid higher premiums?

[ghodlur]

Originally Posted by RaguHolla

Just a heads up to Team-BHP community, third party premiums rates revised downwards.

Now question, how do we get back already paid higher premiums?

Thanks for the heads up.

The truckers stir may have put some sense in the policy makers to revise the Insurance premium. Re-working the premiums as below:

Private cars:
Not exceeding 1000 cc: 2055 No change.
Exceeding 1000cc but not exceeding 1500cc: Was - 3132, Now - 2863. Savings of 269. Still 28% change over last year rates.
Exceeding 1500 cc: Was - 8630, Now - 7890. Savings of 740. Still 28% change over last year rates.

2 Wheelers:
Not exceeding 75 cc: 569. No Change.
Exceeding 75 but not exceeding 150cc: 720 16% change since last year.
Exceeding 150 but not exceeding 350cc: Was - 970, Now - 887. Savings of 83. 28% change over last year rates.
Exceeding 350 cc: Was - 1114, Now - 1019. Savings of 95. Still 28% change over last year rates.

Attaching the pdf copy for everyone's reference.

Mods: Request you to change the thread title to suitable.

[sgiitk]

The industry has claimed that the Comprehensive is cross subsidizing the TP premia. The latter are up, have the former dropped? I doubt it.

[devarshi84]

People usually replace their cars every 5-7 years and hence this issue might not have come to everyone's notice.

Each of my 2-wheelers and 4-wheelers are more than 5 years old. Additionally, I was not using the Claims as many people choose to (still don't use it for 2-wheelers).

But what has come to my notice is that the insurance premiums never really reduce even in the event of NCB's touching their limits every year and IDv's going down.

It does not really matter if go for claims regularly or gather NCB's to their fullest capacity for discount on next year. THe premiums either increase or stay the same but never decrease more than a little in 4-5 years.


This is a bad concept as the companies are taking away our money and even the safe drivers never get rewarded. Can anybody throw light on this issue?

[rkg]

Insurers are increasing the third party premium which is compulsory. In my opinion, third party premium is farce, at least in India because of the procedures involved. I am yet to see a guy who was successful in third party premium claim.

But insurance companies are claiming increase in claims in third party and increasing the premium every year.

Recent hike third party premium by Insurance companies forced truckers to go on strike few weeks back, resulting in reduction in 3rd party premium for trucks. Unfortunately for private motor vehicles there is no reduction as there is no pressure group.

http://www.ibtimes.co.in/indias-regu...t-order-723491

http://www.thehindubusinessline.com/...cle9644739.ece

[Mortis]

What a coincidence ! Just yesterday I noticed the same thing while renewing my cars insurance for the 6th year. My NCB is at max 50%, IDV has gone down as usual and I noticed that the premium has gone up not only this year but also last year as compared to the 4th year. It was 5300 in 2015, last year I paid 5600 and this year 5900. I was told the same thing about increase in 3rd party being the reason for premiums going up. Very strange, can anyone throw a bit more light on the topic ?

[wildsdi5530]

I have a friend who warned me about this a few months back. There are apparently a lot of fraudulent claims in the third party insurance. As a private vehicle owner, you can never claim third party successfully. But most commercial vehicles have only 3rd party. In a mutual understanding, they claim the insurance and split the proceeds. IRDA has been unable to crackdown on this. Thus they have approved increasing the premiums.
I believe something similar is going to happen in the health insurance sector too.

[ajayclicks]

I have a 13 years old Kinetic Nova, never made any claims. Around the 7th year or so, the insurance renewal person kept the premium the same as the previous year. When I protested that why I am not getting NCB, he mentioned that my premium (comprehensive) has hit the rock bottom/ bare minimum amount that is required to be paid. Hence, even though I do not have any claims, I still have to pay that said amount.

Over these last 6 years or so the total premium amount has creeped up due to revision in tariff, service charges etc.

[RaguHolla]

Anyone got insurance renewed before third-party insurance re-baselined at lower level? If yes, any of you got back the higher premium paid voluntarily or otherwise by asking?

If anyone got excess premium refunded, sharing here might be useful to members of team-bhp.

Here is my story with TATA-AIG.

After 1 month of constant follow up with Tata-Aig, I finally got third-party premium difference back. I would have written no less than 20 emails. First they outright rejected stating "premium rates were as on date of renewal". However I escalated to their grievance department, which resulted in continuous stalling. Every time I ask/remind about return of premium, they would send standard quote email "refund process taking more time than required, we are sorry, we will get back to you at the earliest". This never happened.

Finally I wrote to IRDA on non-life insurance email id "complaints_at_irda_dot_gov_dot_in", with CC to their appellate. Things moved quickly. Appellate called me within hour after writing email (Wow! that was quick!), and requested for NEFT mandate via email. Next day they initiated refund (difference in premium + all tax on that).

If anyone in same boat and thinking may be its not possible to get back the amount, writing a mail or not a bad idea.

[GTO]

Just paid Rs. 9,694 for a basic 3rd-party insurance policy for my Jeep which has a book value of zero . And remember, this is 3rd party only - the insurance company has to pay nothing for accidental damage or theft.

The Jeep has never had an insurance claim in its 20 years of operation either.

This is frankly getting ridiculous. Let me show you how the rates have gone up. Below is the amount paid for my Jeep's insurance over the years:

2011: 3,282
2012: 3,493
2013: 4,134
2014: 4,904
2015: 5,915
2016: 7,464
2017: 9,694

[ringoism]

Originally Posted by GTO

Just paid Rs. 9,694 for a basic 3rd-party insurance policy for my Jeep which has a book value of zero .....

2011: 3,282
2012: 3,493
2013: 4,134
2014: 4,904
2015: 5,915
2016: 7,464
2017: 9,694

Indeed difficult to swallow.

Originally Posted by ghodlur

...Re-working the premiums as below:

Private cars:Exceeding 1500 cc: Was - 8630, Now - 7890. Savings of 740. Still 28% change over last year rates.

I'm still being quoted rs9,000+ for some reason...

Originally Posted by MDED

The steep rise in TP premiums upto 50% was on the anvil for sometime. Finally, IRDA backed by a report from the Insurance Information Bureau of India (IIB) claiming that the number of accidents is on rise in India, have increased the TP premium from April 01 for vehicles on the basis of their cubic capacity.

So, it is presumed that the vehicles of lesser engine capacity are less prone to causing accidents than the ones which are powered by a meatier engine.

no, just that in being larger/heavier they do more damage in the TP scenario... see below

Originally Posted by The Great

The claims made for TP are huge, even in the passenger vehicle segment sir. This rise is direct result of the claims made.

...the resale value... has very little to do with the premiums... if it damages the opp person or his property the damages are going to be huge irrespective to your cars value.

Yes.

Originally Posted by greenhorn

As... cost of labour at service centres increases along with inflation of associated costs, this is inevitable. A friend bought a 2005 Alto in the UK. the car cost him 700 GBP, and the insurance was 2200

Yes, not uncommon in the U.S. scenario either. It's coming...

The Marshal is up for renewal and I was surprised, especially in light of a perfect driving record, to get a quote above rs9,000 - especially as according to various sources (incl. above) it should "only" be rs7,890. Still double what it was five or so years ago.

If insurers wanted to go to the trouble, they could analyze data a bit better to determine who truly poses more or less risk to them, what sorts of drivers/ specific vehicles in specific geographic areas are more likely to generate the claims that cut into their profits. Obviously a lot of consistently safe drivers in vehicles not particularly accident-prone are paying for the sins of others. That's life in human societies...

(not OT here):


***More broadly though, what it boils down to is that the economy is dramatically changing, the roads are dramatically changing, but in all honesty and most seriously, the driving habits are basically same as ever***

Meaning that nowadays speeds are much higher, and cars are much heavier than in the M800 era; Cars above 1.5L have more mass, and when accidents occur (and occur they do, with alarming frequency), heavier cars - fatalities aside and in typical situations - do more severe/costly damage - to themselves and other property - than lighter ones would. Quite revealing to work out Physics calculations re mass/velocity. As mentioned above, the costlier labor/spares (again vs the M800/Jeep era) means the insurers must pay out more - a lot more. On top of that they've got to deal with fraudulent cases / claims. They're allegedly taking a loss on TP, and are asking for no more than a break-even situation from the regulators; if the latter were to depart, I suspect we'd find ourselves with even higher rates:

https://www.irdai.gov.in/ADMINCMS/cms/Uploadedfiles/IRDAI%20Journal%20September%202017.pdf

Interesting info here, the unfortunate thing being that an Indian regulatory body is using U.S. accident data to frame their arguments / conclusions.

As for the Yanks: In the U.S. city where I resided twenty years ago, rates were very high, in comprehensive partly due to an unbelievable theft-rate (5,500 cars per year in my one section of the city alone); But even third-party wasn't cheap due to a large number of accidents / claims based on:

1) A lot of uninsured / unlicensed / untrained / inexperienced first-generation motorists to deal with (demographics mainly);

2) A lot of ill-maintained cars (fraud re: safety/pollution inspections, as here);

3) Very little enforcement by the police re: road rules (running red lights/stop signs, gross overspeeding, wrong way up one-ways, helmetless travel, etc, etc... yes, in America...). Back then, I managed to run my 280ZX Turbo regularly at about 150kmph in what I guess were 80-90kmph zones - daily really - without ever getting caught, and that was the same for most others in the morning rush hour traffic (on I-95, US1, etc).

Any of this sound familiar???

So not pointing any fingers here... just expressing the reality:

Insurance is expensive wherever driving is a relatively dangerous proposition

...And that's something each motorist needs to feel some sense of responsibility for. It wouldn't have to be that way, it could definitely change for the better, but that's where we are, and there we will remain till some serious efforts are made in driver training, safety awareness, and consistent law enforcement. I hear that the new amendment to the Motor Vehicle Code has taken some good steps in the direction, which is encouraging.

A friend in Delhi was the Personal Assistant to the Union Transport Minister. And another's father was head of road safety for Delhi police. I griped to each of them a bit about a specific, widespread, illegal and dangerous driving practice which could be easily changed, and asked in sincerity / curiosity what their offices were doing to try and deal with it. The responses were basically that "nothing will ever change". I was close enough to these folks to see that they they and/or their family members were rule-breakers out on the road. Good people, good friends, but some unhelpful habits even amongst those charged with the responsibility of creating positive change.

In short, all the complaining about rates will have little net effect, except perhaps to hold the insurers accountable re their calculations - the insurance corporations are not charity NGO's. More helpful, perhaps, to consider that T-bhp has become increasingly influential in the land, and whatever we can do to practice, model, encourage, and legislate better driving practice will be a true blessing to the nation. We're probably a little ways off from driver-less smart-cars, so for now safety is highly dependent on individual humans collectively creating acceptable standards.

To conclude, I visited my old American city this past Spring and see that they've got traffic enforcement cameras set up now. Something resisted in the U.S. for a long while due to concerns over privacy / civil liberties, but I'm pretty sure we'll see results. Run a red light, get an expensive challan in the mail within a couple days. Fail to pay the challan, you're denied annual road-tax/registration renewal, you get your license suspended, you get a summons to court. Drive on a suspended license or fail to show up for court, VERY HEAVY FINES, AND/OR YOU GO TO JAIL...

The info would be shared inter-state, as well, so it's not like you can get away with the kind of nonsense you see up here in Manali from the drivers of out-of-state vehicles. And it's automated and impersonal, so traffic police can't be very corrupt (they're largely obsolete, in fact), neither do the honest ones have to deal with "Apko malum hai mera bap kaun hai???". Pretty simple, and I'd expect it's proving rather effective there, as it probably could here.

Short of enforcement, I always thought that in this media-influenced era, some good could come from gov't-funded public-awareness messages on TV/FB whatever else. If necessary even graphic and gory ones that would show just how serious and tragic the effects of one's specific acts of personal carelessness can be in the lives of themselves and others.

A lot of people I've met are rather hope-less re: change; Perhaps their jadedness has been hard-earned, but when I was a kid several decades ago in North America, things like littering/illegal dumping, drunk driving, driving without seatbelts, all types of environmentally-unfriendly acts, etc, etc, were extremely commonplace. But have become relatively rare now. Almost all of the change initiated by activist citizen's groups, and ultimately bolstered by government initiatives.

Am I grinding my axe here? Um, yes - and has everything to do with insurance premiums. Which I'm about to have to shell out 9-grand for...


Thanks,
-Eric

[sgiitk]

I hear that the trucker's are professionals in Third Party Claims. I guess they have channels sorted out. May be true of Taxi chaps as well.