[graaja]

Originally Posted by MadinMumbai

Have any of you faced this kind of form? Is it even legal for a bank to ask for these details? What will they do if I am from a certain religion or caste? Or if I have 1 child or 16 children? Will they deny me a loan basis these details?

I remember having filled in the details about number of children in my last loan application with SBI.

I don't know how they use religion/caste to determine loan worthiness, but financially number of children definitely matters as it indicates the average outflow of an individual. This in relationship with the inflow (IT returns, salary statement etc.) can be a good pointer to determine the loan worthiness of an individual.

As much as you have the right to your privacy, the banks have equal right to know about you (and yes, they should not be using this information other than to process your loan, like selling it to spammers) as they are the ones who are lending. This is just a business transaction. So I think both you and the bank are justified in your positions. When the expectations do not match, you just walk away from the deal.

[jkrishnakj]

I don’t recall filling this details when I took a car loan last September. I remember giving photographs and giving the signature. Maybe the loan agent took the trouble to fill it for me.

Vipul’s points sound logical. Data also helps the government on the census outputs etc..

What I did get irritated in the loan process was when they asked me for 6 blank cheques. That sounded intimidating and I got a feeling they are looking at me as someone who will run away.

My dad was a banker too and he had to navigate many an enquiry for Agri loans. Right from cows never bought to a same tractor in a village being shown as owned by different people there to bore wells never dug etc ..It’s not easy on them too.

[MadinMumbai]

Originally Posted by vipul_singh

Not sure what the outrage is all about

Demographic fields are used to track potential discrimination in loan disbursals and also whether targets, as may be defined from time to time, are being met.

There is a kind view which you seem to subscribe to. Which is good.

But there is an opposing view, one that makes many people uncomfortable. This information has the potential to be misused. And as a citizen of a country that allows religion to be a private matter, I see no reason to share this information with a potential, and possibly, one-time business associate. If one took away the omnipotent godlike halo off the bank and saw it for what it is - a mere business entity, it would be easy to see the logic or illogical aspect of their demand.

[StepUP!]

Strange! I recently took loan from Bank of baroda to purchase XUV7OO. But I was never asked questions on my religion, caste number of children etc.
Indeed bank manager gave me number of an insurance person from whom I took car's insurance.

[sanchari]

One of the main reasons for getting religion & caste data is to show that no group is being discriminated. You often see news reports saying that so& so community got x% of the loans or so&so community gets very little loans sanctioned & it’s discriminatory etc. Where do you think these data comes from? If this data is not available, there will be another set of allegations that govt is anti-community for some xyz community.

In India, everything boils down to religion or caste, and anyone can shout systemic discrimination. This data helps to give a real picture, nothing more. If any data shows a particular group is being denied loans even if it’s based on AI models etc, it will become a big issue. I don’t think religion &caste is into the models for creditworthiness of applicants.

[anjan_c2007]

A friend had applied for a car loan with a reputed finance company (non banking finance company- NBFC). Within a day or two, two of their designated employees visited my friend to check the residential address as mentioned physically. Seated in the drawing room, they started asking him about ownership of the gadgets and furnitures they saw in the drawing room. My friend got terribly upset and spoke up his mind saying why they were asking such irrelevant and pointed questions, since he had already submitted his employers letter, KYC, salary slip (monthly) and Form 16 (Income Tax) of the current assessment year.

Those fellows sensed that they had overdone their questioning and soon left the premises. The loan was sanctioned no doubt, but these are the games that they play.

[surfatwork]

A while back, I had taken a loan for a 2 wheeler. Very small amount of about 60k, but I took the loan for business reasons - I run my own company. Was involved since I am the director.
The agent who came home had a set of papers about 1.5 inches thick! Innumerable signatures. At some point, he asked for my mother's name and I declined - couldn't see why my mother's name mattered in a company loan, and he backed off. A little later he asked if I owned the house.
When I said yes, he asked if he could get the house papers! At which point I booted him out. He wanted my house ownership papers for a 60k loan on which I was not even the primary borrower.
So my learning from this and other experiences has been that banks will try and get as many documents they can. If you refuse, it doesn't take long for them to just carry on. Stay firm.

[MichaelBallack]

Hello MadinMumbai,

I'm one of those PSU bankers whom you are suspecting to be brainless. As vipul_singh has aptly stated, Demographic details including religion and caste is being obtained to monitor the disbursal to each community and thus to avoid discrimination, further this data is required to be provided to DFS & RBI as and when requested.

You could have perfectly left the religion and caste blank and the officer would have still processed the loan since those fields are non mandatory in the loan processing system. No banker in thier right senses especially working in a branch would let go of a potentially tension free loan.

Why banks need number of dependants is pretty self explanatory since it may adversely affect your repayment. If you are having more children, then loan repayment would be at the bottom of your priority. It is the bank's money at stake, liquidating a car after loan becomes NPA is a cumbersome procedure for the bank. So proper due diligence of the customer with respect to repayment ability is mandated.

No 'Bank' in India would demand a blank cheque from you since it is against RBI rules, but an officer may insist if they have had several rogue customers from thier past experience which i am in no way justifying. If you are uncomfortable with providing one, just go to any other bank, they are aplenty.

[charanreddy]

I worked for a US consumer bank, credit card division and I know for sure that denying or using protected information like ethnicity , medical history is Down Right illegal there. Banks get fined millions of dollars if found so.

In India , I believe we don’t completely understand the concept of privacy and right to share information. This will change as years go by but until then I just don’t bother anymore and give out information for loans purpose. We take shelter in numbers and are just too small in the larger scheme of things for people to misuse our information

[RT13]

Originally Posted by Overlander

Being one of these “faceless, brainless” people, I can assure you that the loan being provided to you will not be determined by the information you have provided. However, such details are mandated by no lesser than the Reserve Bank of India, that requires, at various methods and timelines, banks to provide data on inclusivity, priority sector lending etc.

Interesting! So the data is to prove financial inclusivity, rather than exclusivity in determining disbursal. Thank you for that. Certainly never thought of that and I’m glad there are macro checks to try and move towards it. Tfs

On a separate note, I feel the pain as the son of one such public sector banker from a different era. Few people realise how much the likes of SBI has done for the country. Decades before ‘micro finance’ became a popular and fashionable phrase, SBI was changing the fate of millions of poor rural folk - farmers, labourers, artisans, etc in myriad ways. My father always said that he never ever had a single default from any of these folk from the most humble backgrounds.

Those were the days of true nation building I suppose..

[NetfreakBombay]

Originally Posted by MadinMumbai

The best deal was offered by a nationalised bank....

One of the reasons these rates are better is lower risk for the bank. To ensure low risk; banks will ask for as many securities as possible.

As a business transaction, customer always have a choice to go for a lender that will take higher risk and charge customer for that risk.

Originally Posted by MadinMumbai

Have any of you faced this kind of form? Is it even legal for a bank to ask for these details? What will they do if I am from a certain religion or caste?

Not only legal, it is a requirement to report this. Banks have to demonstrate that they are lending to various cast + religion combinations. Some NBFC are exempt from this.

https://rbidocs.rbi.org.in/rdocs/Not...PDFs/64279.pdf

Originally Posted by MadinMumbai

I have 1 child or 16 children? Will they deny me a loan basis these details?

This is a valid business reason. Say a family has just two earning members (Husband + Wife) and 16 dependents. Such family will have lower capacity of paying EMIs.

[ashlil]

Originally Posted by MadinMumbai

Is it even legal for a bank to ask for these details? What will they do if I am from a certain religion or caste? Or if I have 1 child or 16 children? Will they deny me a loan basis these details?

Your problem was that you asked for a loan of a paltry Rs 12Lakhs. That is why you need to provide every single details down to your toilet habits. You should ask for Rs 12000 crores. You would be lauded as an astute businessperson. No need to provide any securities or info. There is absolutely no need to even repay the loan. Take it and go to aCaribbean country and lead an excellent life.

[ShivWason17]

Being a PSU bank employee myself, I can easily vouch for the fact that most of the forms (or the details in these forms) in the banks have been mandated by RBI. These forms go through a rigorous scrutiny process by the legal team before being circulated in the branches for public use.

Usually the forms are filled up by the bankers themselves, specially loan forms where a customer may mess up. Further, In this era of competition, even the banker wouldnt want to stress out the customer by getting the form filled.

Apart from this, these details are for building up bank’s MIS data. Customers have no idea about the queries a PSU bank gets from say an MP during parliament’s question hour or an RTI from a common man. These details come in handy in these cases. Believe me we have got questions from the parliamentary committee asking the number of loans sanctioned to people from particular caste or religion.

On a lighter note, a simple Saving Account Opening Form in my bank is of 21 pages, till date even I cannot fill it completely thankgod I’ve got an Audit job, not a branch one

[anjan_c2007]

Another suitable way of filling up such forms to answer their queries would be to write :-

RELIGION :- INDIAN
CASTE:- INDIAN

and specifically state that the applicant has denounced his religion and caste hitherto for obvious reasons and shall hereinafter be known as an INDIAN by religion and caste.

It is a matter of personal choice and no one repeat no one can force upon anybody any religion or caste, going by the Indian Constitution (the fountain of all our laws) if he or she decides to denounce the same.

[androdev]

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