[mkh]

Thanks to those who visited this thread, what is sad is that even though scores of people buy cars, very few visit this and make use( or if they do, none posts). Wish aware citizens do more to stop bad practices than just crib about them

[paragpatankar]

I was at the Freedom Park Bangalore today morning on my Cycle, and while coming back checked out a new car I am planning to buy.
The OTR price breakup includes "Incidental charges" for Registration, and that set me thinking--every time we buy a new car, do we tacitly promote corruption by paying them ?
Maruti seems to have set the ball rolling by having a standard Price list item for this, other manufacturers are following suit.

The RTO process is not impossible to tackle personally in Bangalore, I changed my HR Number to KA without paying any bribes, it took me a few visits to the RTO, but I was not harassed, or even asked for a bribe.

Can we try and curb this small bit of corruption ? Maybe at least us BHPians can stand up and say we will not pay bribes to register our car ?

[H3LIOS]

When we returned back from US and bought a car, the dealer sales guy kind of made it sound like it would be a nightmare to get it registered ourselves. So we paid the Rs. 2,000 extra to get their "agent" do it for us. It was smooth - I had to visit the RTO once and was out within 20 min.

The second time, I decided to do it myself. As you said, it got done - after three trips and several hours of my time. I wasn't harassed or deliberately troubled by the RTO officials, but I did get the feeling that they were not co-operating fully either. For ex: the reason for three trips is that they didn't tell me all the necessary documentation required and so I didn't take some papers and had to go back again the next day (it was being registered in my firm's name). In contrast, they were all smiles and jovial with the "agents". I had to wait for over 40 mins for the guy to come and take an impression of the engine & chassis numbers, whereas those who came thru agents were getting it done as soon as they arrived.

So, the next time round I'd rather pay the little "extra" and get it done thru an agent and save a lot of time and hassle on my end. Does it encourage corruption? Yes - I think the RTO (or for that matter, all govt depts) have designed their process around the "agents". For most it may not be worth the hassle to do the right thing.

I am ashamed to admit that I bribed officials several times (RTO, ROC, VAT etc etc). But I am even more ashamed that our govt has put me in that position.

[kanwal]

Originally Posted by H3LIOS

When we returned back from US and bought a car, the dealer sales guy kind of made it sound like it would be a nightmare to get it registered ourselves. So we paid the Rs. 2,000 extra to get their "agent" do it for us. It was smooth - I had to visit the RTO once and was out within 20 min.

The second time, I decided to do it myself. As you said, it got done - after three trips and several hours of my time. I wasn't harassed or deliberately troubled by the RTO officials, but I did get the feeling that they were not co-operating fully either. For ex: the reason for three trips is that they didn't tell me all the necessary documentation required and so I didn't take some papers and had to go back again the next day (it was being registered in my firm's name). In contrast, they were all smiles and jovial with the "agents". I had to wait for over 40 mins for the guy to come and take an impression of the engine & chassis numbers, whereas those who came thru agents were getting it done as soon as they arrived.

So, the next time round I'd rather pay the little "extra" and get it done thru an agent and save a lot of time and hassle on my end. Does it encourage corruption? Yes - I think the RTO (or for that matter, all govt depts) have designed their process around the "agents". For most it may not be worth the hassle to do the right thing.

I am ashamed to admit that I bribed officials several times (RTO, ROC, VAT etc etc). But I am even more ashamed that our govt has put me in that position.

Is it fashionable to blame government for all the corruption? While they are responsible, we have some duty to fulfill. RTO is not government per say. The person who is taking or giving bribes are people like me (Agents or RTO officers). If I observed they were friendly with Agents, a person who do they see daily, than me and I will rather bribe next time to save few trips - It is this attitude of mine that is equally contributing corruption. Nothing new in this, we all know and when time comes we prefer to look elsewhere. I agree with paragpatankar and that's what am I going to do this time. Will let you all know how things go in Gurgaon RTO! Thanks paragpatankar!

[MaserQ]

The very fact that the term 'incidental expenses' is widely used, understood and accepted by all is an indication of how deep the cancer has penetrated.

We need solid laws to even begin to fight corruption. Just consider this for a moment - the law makers, the law keepers and even the gate keepers of the law, have been tainted in recent times.

But things have reached a tipping point. Every day, every hour we are bombarded with news reports and personal accounts of how the people are fighting back.

Coming to the topic at hand, just about everybody and his/her grand mother knows how corrupt the Bengaluru RTOs are. Yes, I too paid a bribe once upon a time. Most of us debate about it, but do not act on it. There are umpteen numbers of threads touching on this topic on t-bhp alone. Why not act collectively...

[H3LIOS]

Originally Posted by kanwal

Is it fashionable to blame government for all the corruption?

Of course, it is always in fashion - middle classes have been blaming the govt for all their ills since forever . But seriously, the problem is much much more deep-rooted. The politicians are elected mainly by the masses who are simply bought off on the eve of the polls. A packet or biryani or a sari or a bottle of liquor and they forget the horror of the last 5 years. Add caste & religion to this and Indian polls are anything but rational. People like TBHP members are a frustrating minority, the majority rules and the majority is corrupt.

And who is a politician. Mostly they are thugs & bullies who could not succeed in any other calling. How many doctors or engineers or lawyers or economists or professors do we see in politics now-a-days. I don't know much about the other parts of India, but in AP it is 95% contractors, musclemen and kinsmen of established "leaders". And they are in it for one thing and one thing only - MONEY.

The motto in AP has been "loot & let loot". Such a sorry state of things has been allowed to happen by successive "elected" govts. So yes, it is the people's fault - our collective defeat. Why did we elect such people to office then? Can we even say that next polls will be different? It seems to be a vicious circle - they make money in office and use the money to win the next polls. How do you break this?

I had great hopes about a political revolution in AP in the last general elections - with Chiranjeevi entering politics, Lok-satta making a big issue of corruption and the general public mood against corruption. But in the end money won again. Chiranjeevi joined congress happily and Lok-Satta for all its bluster couldn't get even 2% vote. All the people that I convinced to vote for Lok-satta now say that I made them "waste" their vote.

This debate is end-less. I don't have a solution, but I am sure that the answer is with the middle classes. The day they truly want change, change will come. But all we do is complain with no action because we are all corrupt - morally & ethically. We all want the next guy to be honest & up-right, but we do not look at ourselves. And so it continues.

Originally Posted by MaserQ

We need solid laws to even begin to fight corruption...

India has humongous laws for almost every occasion. But without the will to implement, any law (no matter how powerful or draconian) is useless.

Ages ago Cesare Beccaria, in his wisdom, said "It is not the severity but the certainty of the punishment that deters crime." That holds true today. There was an editorial on Hindu on why corruption thrives in India - 90% of the time, no one complains. Even if they complain, there is usually no case (and instead the complainer can forget about getting his work done - which I have experienced first hand). Even if there is a case, it gets tied up in the courts for years and years. And in the end, the rate of conviction in corruption related cases is a pathetic 1%-2%. As long as the people who implement the law are corrupt, laws by themselves are of no use.

The problem with RTO is that simple routine work has been made unnecessarily complicated and involved just to feed their pockets. It is like - "You don't want to pay extra? Alright then, instead of money you pay us with your time and energy". Is it really worth it to me to take stand here to prove a point? I don't think so. I have learned to pick my battles.. and spending the better part of the day in the sun outside the RTO office is not one of them. As I said, I did it once and decided it is not worth it. Maybe I have taken the easy way out...... but that's the way I see it.

Sorry for the long post. Discussion on corruption always gets me riled up - mainly because I feel so helpless against it.

Cheers.

[paragpatankar]

Originally Posted by H3LIOS

I have learned to pick my battles.. and spending the better part of the day in the sun outside the RTO office is not one of them. As I said, I did it once and decided it is not worth it. Maybe I have taken the easy way out...... but that's the way I see it.

Sorry for the long post. Discussion on corruption always gets me riled up - mainly because I feel so helpless against it.

Cheers.

@ H3lios- Agree corruption is a hard thing to tackle, I am not advocating big steps, changing laws, making complaints etc. What I want to try is very simple-BHP'ians say no to bribes in registering their new vehicles and we stand up and support each other to achieve that. We are a very well networked and informed community, I am sure collectively we can make this small thing happen. It is hard, but we can at least try ?
@ Kanwal- Thanks for giving it a try, do let us know how it went.

[el lobo 6061]

Originally Posted by paragpatankar

I was at the Freedom Park Bangalore today morning on my Cycle, and while coming back checked out a new car I am planning to buy.
The OTR price breakup includes "Incidental charges" for Registration, and that set me thinking--every time we buy a new car, do we tacitly promote corruption by paying them ?
Maruti seems to have set the ball rolling by having a standard Price list item for this, other manufacturers are following suit.

The RTO process is not impossible to tackle personally in Bangalore, I changed my HR Number to KA without paying any bribes, it took me a few visits to the RTO, but I was not harassed, or even asked for a bribe.

Can we try and curb this small bit of corruption ? Maybe at least us BHPians can stand up and say we will not pay bribes to register our car ?

Recently had my Vento registration done through the showroom's agent for a sum of Rs. 2000. Well all said and done, what we pay as expenses towards the registration is for ease of getting the job done. Either you go to the RTO yourself and keep asking this that and they say this document is not there and that not. Which is quite a pain.
It took me just 10 mins at the RTO for the registration. Just drove the car to the RTO and agent was there all ready with all documents. The inspector inspected and signed the documents and I was off. Received the registration smart card in a week at the showroom. That's it.
The expense is just for your ease and nothing else and the agent too is able to make earning for his family for the hard work he does. Just live with it or the do the work by your own.

[Spitfire]

Originally Posted by el lobo 6061

The expense is just for your ease and nothing else and the agent too is able to make earning for his family for the hard work he does. Just live with it or the do the work by your own.

I don't hope too many people follow your example.

Because what happens is for people like me who cant afford that Rs 2k which you pay for your selfish convenience makes the RTO employees expect the same from us. And when we go by the ethical way they harass us and waste our time.

So invariably people who think like you are our headache. Please try and do your work on your own instead of making us principled and honest people suffer for your small thrills.

For people who don't get time to do any of the RTO work please try and get it done by somebody else the legal way.

Please or us poor guys try and not make our lives miserable.

[el lobo 6061]

Originally Posted by Spitfire

I don't hope too many people follow your example.

Because what happens is for people like me who cant afford that Rs 2k which you pay for your selfish convenience makes the RTO employees expect the same from us. And when we go by the ethical way they harass us and waste our time.

So invariably people who think like you are our headache. Please try and do your work on your own instead of making us principled and honest people suffer for your small thrills.

For people who don't get time to do any of the RTO work please try and get it done by somebody else the legal way.

Please or us poor guys try and not make our lives miserable.

Well a person who buys a beemer wouldn't goto RTO to do the registration by himself. Others even have office to go rather than goto RTO.
Paying an agent is to get the work done with you not being physically present as we have other work to do. What we pay is for service that the agent provides. Dealers give you an option that you can do the registration by yourself. Its all your call you can go that way and what is the legal way for who don't get time to do any of the RTO work?
For a matter of fact I did the renewal of registration and change of address of my 15 year old Kinetic Honda DX too back in 2010 all by myself. I too know when to spend the money in right direction and when not.
And no spitting of fire. We all express our view thats it.

[mayankjha1806]

Originally Posted by paragpatankar

Can we try and curb this small bit of corruption ? Maybe at least us BHPians can stand up and say we will not pay bribes to register our car ?

To a certain extent yes, recently few weeks back one of my good friend got his Hyphothitication cancelled by going himself to the RTO and he needed two trips to the RTO. Not much of a hassle and process was smooth. So i think its possible in trying to say no to the Bribing in registration process. It might mean getting the car a day late as going by the process in RTO (Without paying bribe) means more time is needed.

On the other hand there are govt institutions in which nothing would move if you refuse to pay bribe. I tried this at the time of registering my bought land but hit the wall until i decided that i have a job and i cannot keep wasting my office time for this purpose with no indication when the misery will end.

[Spitfire]

Originally Posted by el lobo 6061

Paying an agent is to get the work done with you not being physically present as we have other work to do. What we pay is for service that the agent provides.

Oh so you get a receipt for the services rendered. Then I am ok with it. Can you give the details of the agent you go to for doing your work legally.

I am sure he adds the % of service charge on the bill that he owes to the government.

Lot of people from your area will surely be helped by your gesture.

Also what happens in the dealership is they do not say RTO charges on the bill so I believe they are cheating me.

Advaith Hyundai on 100 ft road in Indiranagar, Bangalore, asked me to pay some 3k for RTO charges when I said ok and asked for a receipt mentioning it as RTO charges they denied selling me the vehicle.

If you could scan your agents receipt for the work done for you and paste it here I can go rub it on their faces.

Thanks in advance for helping in the above.

Oh and views is different from mentioning unethical practices. I wasn't aware you were doing it legally so sorry for that.

[carfreak77]

I just bought a new car a few weeks ago. I had to pay close to 90k for registration of the car (no special number etc). When I got the receipt of registration from the dealer I notice that the receipt says that I paid 69k for registering my car. I was surprised. Contacted my dealer and was informed that this is the standard procedure as otherwise the RTO "babus" do not register the car. So, this basically means I pay a bribe of close to 20k just for registering my C-segment car!!! What nonsense is this? Atleast it would be somewhat justified if they use that money for bettering the roads etc but they do not do anything constructive with the bribe at all - just pocket it I guess. I think its ridiculous that we need to pay such a huge bribe just for registering our cars. At the same time what do we do, do we have a choice?
Frankly, I doubt that this phenomenon will stop soon.

[el lobo 6061]

Originally Posted by Spitfire

Oh so you get a receipt for the services rendered. Then I am ok with it. Can you give the details of the agent you go to for doing your work legally.

I am sure he adds the % of service charge on the bill that he owes to the government.

Advaith Hyundai on 100 ft road in Indiranagar, Bangalore, asked me to pay some 3k for RTO charges when I said ok and asked for a receipt mentioning it as RTO charges they denied selling me the vehicle.

Well here are all the details. At Vashi RTO(MH 43) at Navi Mumbai we have 7% tax on the invoice value of the car and Rs. 300 for registration charges including cost of Smart Card. All this goes into GOI kitty and there is no service charges by any babu. Plain and clear charges for registration of a vehicle.
The dealer was charging Rs. 67000 approx for the registration of the vehicle at RTO which includes 7% tax of invoice value and its agent service charge. I even wanted special number for my car for which dealer was charging Rs. 10000 for a given specific number.
I thought it would be wise for once go to the RTO and have the charges checked out for cross checking, for I'm not being taken for a ride. Took a day off and went to the RTO. Over there inquired for the same and was told the tax is 7% of invoice value plus Rs. 300. The special number I wanted was costing Rs. 7500. So saved Rs. 2500 and took the number directly through the RTO on the same day.
My cars 7% tax was coming at Rs. 63930 and add another Rs. 300 comes at Rs. 64230. Than next day asked the dealer for reducing his registration charges in accordance to what RTO charges. To which he said the additional amount is towards the service charge for agent for which I wont receive the receipt. At last he came to Rs. 66500 for registration and so got the registration done from him and handed over to him the receipt of special number required during registration.
As didn't wanted to take the hassle of registration and taking more day off. That's all.
Regarding your car, Advaith Hyundai should't have refused you from selling the car, thats wrong on his part. Instead you could have asked him that you will have the registration done all by yourself.

Originally Posted by carfreak77

I just bought a new car a few weeks ago. I had to pay close to 90k for registration of the car (no special number etc). When I got the receipt of registration from the dealer I notice that the receipt says that I paid 69k for registering my car. I was surprised. Contacted my dealer and was informed that this is the standard procedure as otherwise the RTO "babus" do not register the car. So, this basically means I pay a bribe of close to 20k just for registering my C-segment car!!!

You could have cross checked the registration fees at your RTO like I did and renegotiated the same with the dealer. Next time you would be more careful while purchasing another car.

[mukeshgoel]

Originally Posted by kanwal

I going to do this time. Will let you all know how things go in Gurgaon RTO

".anshuman" has nicely explained the registration process and required documents in Gurgaon:

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian...ml#post2447004

Originally Posted by .anshuman

There are some registration charges, MCG charges, Red Cross receipt etc but in total they cost no more than a few hundred bucks.

I got my Laura registered in December, it's a very easy process. Did not take more than an hour in my case(there was not much rush that day).

• Get the complete file(Already prepared by Dealership).
• Add Address Proof and Pan Card Copy.
• Get the car inspected outside Secreteriat gate(Check timings, AFAIK it's before 12pm on all working days).
• Get the file checked at 2nd floor by assigned Police officer.
• Pay the Fees + Tax at the common counter.
• Submit the File and take the receipt, the reciept can be used as Registration Certificate until RC arrives.
• Pick the RC after 15-20 days in exchange for the issued receipt.

If you stay in Gurgaon, the Lease Deed of your apartment will work as Address proof. Ration Card\Voter ID card will also work.